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Light
USA
19 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 27 2014 : 6:26:30 PM
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Hello,
This is my first post to the forum. I've been reading for a while and have done some searching to try to find the answer to this question.
As background, last year I was intrigued by TM and had read about from its supporters and critics. I also read opinion that the Maharishi had created TM as sort of a "Hindu Lite" version. I was uncomfortable with that explanation and sought to find a meditation method that was effective yet did not cross into worshiping as a Hindu.
Reading about TM led me to NSR, a method that is said to be similar (minus the religion) and taught by individuals who are familiar with (even former teachers of) TM. I practiced NSR a while and then kept searching and reading. That led me to Yogani's books. I have read Yogani's Deep Meditation and Spinal Breathing books and am currently reading one of his longer books -- Advanced Yoga Practices.
For a couple of months now I have been practicing with the mantra as instructed in the Deep Meditation book. However, I have continued uneasiness regarding the source of the mantra and the sounds as well as the future enhancements I've read about.
Basically, I am Jewish and my Judaism is important to me. I have read that it is forbidden to chant the names of Hindu (or other) deities, and I need to be sure that the "I am" meditation is not a sound chosen because it represents a Hindu deity. I am familiar with the story of the burning bush and "I AM" in that context, but that does not make this mantra any more comfortable for me. If anything, I am concerned that "I AM" is yet another name for God, and, therefore, chanting the name over and over again may be a form of disrespect (taking God's name in vain). Jews often do not write even the word "God" on anything; even online, it's often replaced with "G-d."
So I would like to know about the source of the I AM mantra -- I believe I read that it is selected for its sound, not its meaning. What makes it a good sound for meditation?
Also, the enhancements that will be added later -- what is their source? What make them good sounds for meditation?
Thank you for your help.
L |
Edited by - Light on Jan 28 2014 1:48:12 PM |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2014 : 9:33:13 PM
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Light,
I'm probably the best person to take you up on this discussion, inasmuch as I am both a deeply committed Jew, as well as a TM teacher, trained by Maharishi himself in 1976. So, what IS the deal with the mantras--either the AYP "I Am" or any of the several dozen TM mantras? As Maharishi always told us during our training, maybe the mantras mean something (to you), maybe they don't, in whatever language you speak. That is not the point of any mantra--for instance, some meaning MAY be present if you pronounce (or understand) our AYP mantra as the two English words, "I am." But the phonetic pronunciation of the written Sanskrit should actually be closer to "Ayaim", if you can even mentally conceive of the subtle difference between the two. What I am (or ayaim...!) trying to say here is that no matter what you may THINK this sound means, it actually means nothing--no message, content or verbal meaning is intended or implied. We take only the vibrational nature of the mantra, and use that SOUND as a vehicle to allow the mind to become more and more quiet until we reach a state of inner silence. In fact, associating ANY meaning to a mantra brings our practice out of the level of meditation and into merely contemplation--thinking about something on the level of meaning! The names of (pick one) Hindu deities, G-d, Allah, or whatever you wish to imagine, have no place in correct meditation. You may read, as you research what I'm claiming, that mantras do derive from terminology for Hindu deities, but that sort of claim ignores one important fact--these mantras actually predate Hinduism, and go all the way back to the ancient, pre-Hindu Vedic philosophy, the system of thought which gave rise to Yoga. Hinduism came later, and attached superstitions and then practices to what had for thousands of years previously, been a systematic and scientific system for expanding human consciousness. So these are VEDIC mantras, which later Hinduism may have associated with concepts of powers of nature which even later became codified to be deities. I have, over my 38 years as a meditation teacher, taught many devout religious types--Protestant ministers, Catholic monks, Buddhists, Muslims and many Jews. This occasionally does come up, especially within the context of the TM teaching, which employs an initiation ceremony in Sanskrit to impart a mantra and teach its proper use. AYP does not utilize this puja ceremony, so that part is bypassed, but what we're mainly dealing with in all these cases is a question of terminology. What does it MEAN? Let us make sure it means NOTHING to you, or it will not work! But because we derive much of the vocabulary of our practices from Sanskrit, the ancient language of Yoga, we end up having to deal with Sanskrit words and terms. Our mantra is merely a sound. And, as for what makes a good sound for meditation--"ayaim" is a good sound! What Maharishi explained to me long ago is that we use sounds; 1) which have no meaning, 2) whose effects on the nervous system are known, 3) whose effects on the nervous system are wholly positive, and 4) which will encourage the mind to become quieter and quieter. I hope this is a sufficient explanation.
Michael |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2014 : 07:28:33 AM
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Hi Light,
The mantras used in AYP are : AYAM, OM, SREE and NAMAH
None of these are the names of hindu gods, or any other gods as far as I know. The word Sree means a self radiant and luminous being, but it refers to any self radiant and luminous being, so that could be a god, and angel, or a human who is awakened.
But as Mikkiji pointed out above, the mantras are not used for their meaning, but only for their sound vibration in the mind and the body. There is a detailed explanation for why these mantras are used here:
http://www.aypsite.org/188.html
Ayam in Sanskrit can be spelled "I am" in English and so sounds similar to one of the names of God in the Jewish tradition (Ehyeh). But if you go back to the Hebrew bible, "Ehyeh- asher- Ehyeh" can be translated as "I am that I am", or possibly more accurately as "I will be what I will be".
Christi |
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Light
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2014 : 1:46:28 PM
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@Michael -- Thanks so much for your detailed reply. When I was writing my post, I recall thinking something to the effect of, Wouldn't it be nice if someone who was Jewish, has TM experience and knows Yogani's methods would reply. I thought that would be unlikely, but here you are! I appreciate your giving the background to the sounds and how they predate Hinduism.
@Christi -- Thanks for your reply. You answered my remaining questions with your post and the linked page. Thank you for taking the time to reply! |
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kensbikes100
USA
192 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2014 : 12:09:10 PM
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@Mikkiji: That's very interesting TM history! The pronunciation of "I AM" is interesting, too. It is very similar to the pronunciation of the TM mantra I was given in 1971 while a college student. I think of my TM mantra as being pronounced "aing", sounded short and quick. I think I could see "ayaing" as an alternate transliteration of my TM mantra.
I don't find much difference in the effect of the two mantras.
@ Light: I'm Jewish as well, but probably less devout in practice than you are. At TM initiation I was slightly bothered by the ceremony and the use of images ("graven images"), but I have concluded it was a thanking rather than a praying. In any case, I am convinced the mantras are no cause for concern.
-- Ken |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2014 : 9:05:52 PM
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Ken--actually, the mantra you were given at TM initiation is a different mantra than Ayaim, but in the same verse, therefore from the same root or family, but with a different suffix, probably owing to something you said on your interview form--factors such as gender, age, marital status, occupation, education, etc. can all affect the particular mantra form and pronunciation one gets. As for the TM initiation ceremony, is is a thanksgiving ritual, and mostly names the pundits and rishis in the Shankaracharya tradition, through whom this knowledge has been maintained and passed down for centuries. It also describes the qualities of these keepers of wisdom--specifically, we sing about people who are, "the incarnation of kindness, knowledge personified, the goal of 'That Thou art', steady, without impurity, the one who exists as the witness of all intellect." The offerings--flowers, incense, candle light, camphor, fruit, etc--all symbolize the qualities we can hope to gain through the practice of meditation--purity, illumination, steadiness, compassion, etc. Think of it as sort of putting an apple on the teacher's desk. Then again, it also functions at a purely vibrational level, as a powerful pre-first-meditation hypnotic chant which gets the initiate into a state of quiet alertness, from which the jump into meditation becomes just a slight nudge because of the profoundly relaxing qualities of seeing and hearing this beautiful chant.
Michael |
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Light
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2014 : 6:38:36 PM
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So would we be better off using "ayaim" than "I am?" How is ayaim pronounced -- like "I aim?" ah-yaim?
For some reason, when I use the I AM mantra, it keeps trying to convert to a Hebrew word "Hayom." Interestingly, the English translation of hayom would be "today." That almost seems like the now of "I am" -- I exist now. I know we are not supposed to focus on the meaning, but the sound. I do wonder, however, if the sound keeps trying to change to hayom if I should just go with it. In the past, I have meditated using the word "shalom" as it contains several sounds that have been described as the sound of Source -- ah oh mm |
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Omsat
Belgium
267 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2014 : 9:53:08 PM
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Hi Light,
Regarding the first question (ayaim rather than IAM)..
I would not think there's much difference at all within the AYP system of practicing DM because the IAM in AYP is pretty flexible. It does not have to be a certain way or another. It is as it comes. Sometimes the sound and/or the rhythm of repetition of IAM change naturally during one session or over time in new meditation sessions. Surely, across practitioners the pronounciation will vary and that is ok..
As for an initial choice on how to voluntarily say the mantra, perhaps mikkiji can elaborate here...
As for your other question (regarding Hayom):
It seems here that it may be just fine to meditate on Hayom if you'd feel very inclined to do so.. Unless it's a deep urge from within, it may be more advisable to use a sound that has been tested already.. (Perhaps Hayom has been used and tested already, but I'm not aware of this..)
Also:
1. As you already mentioned, attaching a meaning to a mantra is more likely to distract one into reflecting (additional thoughts) upon the meaning, rather than letting the mind go into stillness. Nothing wrong with such reflection, but it is not mantra meditation and is not working on stillness the way DM will do.
Living in the now, "hayom", is a wonderful practice all through your life. Yet, it is not the focus of reflection during mantra meditation.. If only the sound Hayom is with you during mantra meditation, that's fine. If it makes you reflect upon the marvel of living in the now, it's a whole different practice 
2. The specific sound of the chosen mantra vibrates in a certain way in the nervous system. Using another sound will vibrate at another level. Some sounds are more favourable to purification than others and/or the purification mechanics work differently.
As for IAM purification mechanics: quote:
I AM (by any spelling) resonates in the full length of the spinal nerve from the third eye to the root. (lesson 188)
Also..
As noted above, in AYP, IAM was chosen for the way it works on the nervous system. This also means that the other practice recommendations in AYP are to some extent connected to the purification mechanics of the IAM mantra (and the enhanced mantras later on). So, if you wish to deepen your meditation practice later on by using other AYP practices, it may be advisable to stick with the recommended sound in AYP. I do not know if anyone here has experience with working with the sound Hayom.
So, in conclusion and in reply to your last question (about moving on to Hayom or sticking with IAM):
As you have already started DM following the procedure here, my advice would be to continue, you're just getting started! Continue the procedure, meaning : "Favouring the mantra (IAM) over whatever else may arise". Sometimes, what arises are thoughts unrelated to practice, sometimes it's thoughts about practices, sometimes it's other sounds similar to the mantra sound, sometimes it's other sounds very different from the mantra, sometimes it's physical sensations, emotions, or any combination of all these things... Whatever it is (Hayom or something else), in AYP DM, it is considered a deviation from the mantra and the procedure is simple: Come back to the mantra by gently favouring it over anything else.
See what happens.. It's not unlikely Hayom will fade away with longer practice with IAM (ayaim). If Hayom still persists, follow your intuition (or as yogani says it: "The guru is in you.").
Warm wishes
quote:
Originally posted by Light
So would we be better off using "ayaim" than "I am?" How is ayaim pronounced -- like "I aim?" ah-yaim?
For some reason, when I use the I AM mantra, it keeps trying to convert to a Hebrew word "Hayom." Interestingly, the English translation of hayom would be "today." That almost seems like the now of "I am" -- I exist now. I know we are not supposed to focus on the meaning, but the sound. I do wonder, however, if the sound keeps trying to change to hayom if I should just go with it. In the past, I have meditated using the word "shalom" as it contains several sounds that have been described as the sound of Source -- ah oh mm
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Edited by - Omsat on Feb 02 2014 11:50:56 PM |
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lmaher22
USA
217 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2014 : 3:38:33 PM
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Welcome to the PHD school of Yogani. All the heavy lifting has already been done for you. Go along and grade yourself. Ask for help when stuck like I did. And, well that's it:)
With best wishes,
L |
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Light
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2014 : 9:18:43 PM
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Thank you, everyone, for your posts and Govinda for the link you sent me.
To clarify, when I mentioned how the mantra seems to keep trying to turn into "hayom," I did not consciously know what hayom meant -- I looked it up right before posting. So it isn't that I am focusing on the meaning and trying to change it to another word with meaning: The sound keeps morphing to "hayom," and I keep bringing it back to "I am" when I notice it's become "hayom."
I'll keep reading and meditating twice daily with the "I AM" for now and do some more reading.
Thanks again,
L |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2014 : 08:46:05 AM
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Hi Light,
When you are using the mantra "I am", the sound can change during the meditation sitting. It is fine to let that happen and there is no need to "correct" the sound and bring it back to something that sounds like "I am" again. The phrase: "when you realize you are off the mantra..." refers to realizing that you are no longer present with the mantra rather than realizing that the sound is different to when you started your meditation.
Christi |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2014 : 2:35:39 PM
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Hi Light,
p.s. I just checked with Yogani, to see if the advice that I gave you above was correct practice, and he said that it wasn't. Here is what he wrote:
"If pronunciation is faint and fuzzy (non-pronounceable) when we come back to the mantra, then we stay with that and it will refine further from there into stillness. If we come back and pronunciation is clear enough to where we can distinquish (pronounce) another sound that is different from I AM, then we favor I AM. In other words, we treat any other recognizable (conscious) sound in the mind like any other thought and favor I AM.
When the mantra is faint and fuzzy, we don't have to labor over whether it is refined I AM or refined something else. We just go with it and transcend. Over time the whole process becomes automatic at all levels in the mind."
So if the mantra keeps changing to "Hayod" and it means something to you, then let it go and come back to "Ayam" again.
Christi |
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rce
USA
50 Posts |
Posted - Feb 06 2014 : 6:28:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
p.s. I just checked with Yogani, to see if the advice that I gave you above was correct practice, and he said that it wasn't. Here is what he wrote:
"If pronunciation is faint and fuzzy (non-pronounceable) when we come back to the mantra, then we stay with that and it will refine further from there into stillness. If we come back and pronunciation is clear enough to where we can distinquish (pronounce) another sound that is different from I AM, then we favor I AM. In other words, we treat any other recognizable (conscious) sound in the mind like any other thought and favor I AM.
When the mantra is faint and fuzzy, we don't have to labor over whether it is refined I AM or refined something else. We just go with it and transcend. Over time the whole process becomes automatic at all levels in the mind."
So if the mantra keeps changing to "Hayod" and it means something to you, then let it go and come back to "Ayam" again.
Christi
Thanks Christi and Yogani! This topic seems to come up regularly, and this explanation gave me an aha moment. Luckily, I was doing this correctly, but it is nice to know I had it right. Thanks. |
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Light
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2014 : 11:13:10 PM
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Christi,
Thanks so much for taking the time to post Yogani's words. That really helped clear things up for me.
L |
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Jewish, concerned about source of mantras
