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Where am I at now?

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Topic:


Topic author: Tibetan_Ice
Subject: Where am I at now?
Posted on: Mar 30 2008 7:18:38 PM
Message:

Hi

I am writing this so that I have a clear record of what just happened.

I first started the AYP practices back in November. My routine involved deep silence "i am" meditation twice a day. Gradually, I added spinal breathing and samyama. My meditations produced a lot of visions culminating to the point where a large dark cavern fill with water appeared. During the mantra repitition, in an effort to whisper the mantra and become quieter and quieter, I took the mantra to a part of the mind where I could see the words as I mentally chanted them. I had interesting experiences with the visions, and at one point I punched a whole into the back of my head where there appeared this huge black void. I had some fun with that (wrote about it in another post). I have also done numerous other practices such as Usui Reiki channeling, Kunlun, crystal meditation, divine energy channeling and some other things..

About three weeks ago, during deep meditation with shambhavi I noticed a connection between my third eye and my genitals. This distracted me quite a bit and was turning my meditation into a sensory extravaganza. I felt that sex has no place in deep silence meditation; I felt that it probably comes into play more so in the spinal breathing/root lock section. So, I decided to quit the shambhavi and go back to deep silence meditation. Part of my reasoning was that several time I have read that the first step is deep silence and that once this is firmly established, then you start adding other things.

So, I started over. Breath of Fire (bellows breath, bhastrika) for 2 minutes, spinal breathing with root locks and tongue on palate for 5 minutes and then simple deep silence meditation: "i am".. "i am". I would focus the eyes a bit upward but I stayed away from that region upwards about an inch behind my brow because that's where the genital sensations reside. My forehead would get numb and I would feel a pressure as usual, but that was it. I spent the last ~three weeks doing that practice twice a day for 30 minutes.

As I progressed again through the meditation, I would experience periods of silence throughout the day. I would 'catch' my self just staring blankly, thinking of nothing in particular. Throughout the days of the return to simple deep silence meditation, again, towards the end of each session I would find myself in a large dark cave with what seemed like an endless pool of calm water in it.

Last night I started reading "Ennio Nimis's" Kriya Yoga book. I was particularily interested in this part, where he mentions the little peaceful pond in his instructions for silence meditation:

quote:

A few minutes later, the awareness is all gathered in the eyebrows region, as if inside a "little, peaceful pond"...]



The realization came upon my that perhaps my large dark cave with water on the bottom was the "little, peaceful pond" and that perhaps I had achieved sufficient deep silence to start adding other yoga techniques once again.

Today, still unsure about whether or not I had attained sufficient deep silence, I drove out to my favorite secluded hill top and performed the Breath of Fire, spinal breathing and then standard deep silence meditation. This took me 30 minutes. Nothing eventful happened. I drove home quietly, silently and very relaxed. On my way home I wondered about the 'genital connection' in my third eye...

When I got home, I decided to go back to the point where I was at three weeks ago and give it a go again. It wasn't meditation, but I felt I had enough inner silence and I felt confident that I hadn't missed a step and that I wasn't going too fast..

I set my alarm for 1/2 hour and sat in easy posture on my sheep skin rug in my dark room. I did 4 very short root locks, put my tongue on the uvula and did the neck lock, rolled my eyes up and started to focus 1 inch behind my the brow, where that area which produces the sensations is. With not too much effort I hit it. My genitals once again felt like there was a field of magnetic waves encasing them accompanied with some pleasureable sensations.

My mind would wander a bit; I made a mental notation that I wasn't going to do any mantra repitition. Just focussing on that spot in my head. It took a while to get a constant beam of attention on that spot. The sensations were very distracting.

The spot behind my brows appeared to me before as a kind of misty area that resembled waves of heat rising off hot pavement much like a mirage. Or maybe a little cloud of moving mist. It was more like a feeling. As I focused on it, gradually, the mist dissovled and I could see this black flame thingy which kind of resembles a small vagina of sorts. [at this point I lost my concentration and noticed that I had a lot of heat in my buttocks and lower spine].

It took me a little while to ascertain that the black flame (with a touch of red at the bottom) and the spot behind my brow were in fact the same spot. I tried to find the old familiar spot again but instead, there was the black flame thingy there. Fine. I focused on the black flame.

At this point I noticed that the heat had risen in my spine to my heart level. I focused on the black flame and kept my concentration on it. Again, there were pleasurable sensations rising from my genital region. The path they were taking seemed to be up my abdomen. I kept focussing. I heard many bells in my right ear. The heat kept rising into my neck.

At that point my alarm went off (1/2 hr). I was very excited emotionally and had a debate as to whether or not I should stop and assess what I was doing. I decided to relax and keep going.

I wondered what I could do with the black flame. I focused on the black flame again and took a slow deep breath like I do when spinal breathing. The white misty stuff that follows my attention when I spinal breathe followed my attention and went into the black flame. WOW!!! I was enveloped with waves of tingles throughout my whole body. The connection was drawing the tingles back into my body. My body dissolved. I was a cloud of tingles, pleasurable sensations; I was moaning at this point. I never wanted to leave this state! I had found the cosmic vagina, the source of unlimited tingles!

At this point the heat had risen to my head. There was a column of heat from the base of my spine to my face. Noticing this brought me back for a bit. Nah, not a big deal. I can deal with heat. I took another slow breath and pushed my misty attention into the black flame again. Again, big rush of waves of tingles. WOW!! By now the front channel on my body was pulsating, my mind experienced an overload of thoughts and scenery. It was like watching 3000 television shows all at the same time and hearing 100 voices talking simultaneously. I ignored the visions and thoughts, I mean, it was so wonderful to float in this cloud of bliss. Bliss. I wonder if this is the rise of ecstatic bliss that Yogani talks about. Not just a taste but a connection to constant bliss. WOW!

I kept the connection to the black flame going for a while. The heat was feeling very nice. I felt like the miner who had discovered the mother load. I noticed that the bottoms of my feet were tingly. I noticed that I was engulfed in waves of tingles. When I quit focusing on the black flame, after a while the tingles would subside, but not much. Then I'd focus again on the black flame, push my misty sushumna stick out into it and I'd get more waves of tingles. I did this many times just to convince myself that this connection in fact did exist. It does!

At that point I decided to shut it down. That whole session had lasted 63 minutes. I got up and rested on the bed for 10 minutes. While I was resting, I did a few checks to see if the connection was still there. I would focus on the black flame, get a rush and then quit. I put my hands over my lower tan tien and grounded for a while. I got up and walked around. My whole body felt like a charge of electrical current. I noticed that I was sweating on my spine from the middle of my back upwards. The balls of my feet felt like there was electrical current shooting out from them. I went and had a few cigarettes to contemplate what had just happened.

I decided that I should eat something to help ground me. I cooked some food and ate, all the while feeling like I was a cloud of tingles. The waves are quite intense.

As I sit here now, writing this recount, there is quite a bit of heat up my spine, over my head, through my face, and down into my chest. My hands, arms and legs feel sort of like raw nerves from the tingling. I have a somewhat constant flow of something starting from the back of my heart going upwards. I am starting to get a little depressed and I think I may have too much pressure in my head.

I think I'll go for a walk and enjoy the snow and contemplate this new found discovery.. ground for a while.. smile

TI







Replies:


Reply author: tadeas
Replied on: Mar 30 2008 8:23:32 PM
Message:

Hi, it's cool to play with energy :) but for me this would be overdoing it - e.g. raw nerves tingling, electricity in the hands and feet - typical stuff. I mean overdoing it from the point of view of long-term, consistent progress. Everytime you do experiments like this you're in the risk of overload, which means that sooner or later you'll be forced to cut back on your practice, which in turn makes for a longer journey :) That's how I see it and it's up to everyone to weigh the pros and cons.

Just don't forget to always come back to regular, steady practice with self-pacing, which is what makes the difference. The root-brow connection will stay, no worries, and it's nothing compared to the peace inside, yes? :)

Enjoy, but not to the point of over-indulgement :)


Reply author: LittleTurtle
Replied on: Mar 31 2008 12:19:56 PM
Message:

Thanks for posting your experiences Tibetan_Ice. I too hope you don't over do it. Take care.


Reply author: scottfitzgerald
Replied on: Mar 31 2008 8:45:19 PM
Message:

Jim and his Karma wrote to me after I had posted about a similar experience. He welcomed me to spiritual puberty. I was a bit miffed at the time, I sure didn't want anyone pouring a bucket of "Whoa Nellie" on my spiritual fire. Glad he did.

It sounds like we may both "attack" the practice from time to time, and enter meditation aggressively, perhaps with expectations set and goals to attain--if nothing, to see how high we can take the peak experience. To a degree, I think it is a very important part of our journey. We should always do what we can to easily favor the practice, however there are instances where we need to push in order to settle in to what we have, and climb to a higher frequency. If we don't flex hard at times, we don't get the spiritual lactic acid backlash that does two things: reminds us to self-pace and gives us a chance to easily come back to the practice...part of which is self pacing.

No doubt you felt the cosmic engine getting revved up, and it sure sounds and smells and looks and vibrates like a Bliss Banging Harley--the wind roaring Infinite Silence...now hang on.

I was warned not to ride to fast. I got away with a few energizing energy events, and am thankful. I can see how it could get out of hand very easily--nice little trick of the fading ego,

EGO:

The rain stopped. The roads aren't that slick. See what you can really do this time.


SFX: Sirens. The SPIRITUAL EMT enters grim faced.

SPIRITUAL EMT

Damn. He blissed himself into a tree at 87 miles per hour.


EGO bends down to get a better look at the glowing body with the smiling face and attentive lingam.

EGO:

He went out happy.



You made a breakthrough and much of what you have been reading about is happening to you. Congratulations. TI this could be a very pleasant affirmation that AYP does what Yogani says it will. The lessons are all there for a reason, and if any message comes through to you it's joy at your joy. Be careful. It's a real double edged sword realizing the next steps entail getting past and through all you have experienced--the cool part is it gets even better. :)

Take it easy and think about saving some for later.

Big love-

Scott


Reply author: Jim and His Karma
Replied on: Mar 31 2008 9:01:31 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
About three weeks ago, during deep meditation with shambhavi I noticed a connection between my third eye and my genitals.




The connection is actually between third eye and root. The latter is close enough to genitals that you can be confused, especially if you're conditioned into associating sexual energy with genitals.

I'm usually pretty anti-concept in all this, but I just intuitively feel that maybe it would help you to make this slight conceptual adjustment in how you're viewing this stuff. In terms of yoga, your genitals are not a very intrinsic part of what's going on, at all. There's no cockchakra!


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Apr 01 2008 12:40:19 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by scottfitzgerald
No doubt you felt the cosmic engine getting revved up, and it sure sounds and smells and looks and vibrates like a Bliss Banging Harley--the wind roaring Infinite Silence...now hang on.
Damn. He blissed himself into a tree at 87 miles per hour.




Hi Scott
Did I ever tell you about the time I hit a sparrow at 90 mph? The wings were stuck in the clutch lever. The head hit my visor. When I stopped to assess the damage, the heart was on my gas tank still beating!

I think you are giving good advice and I am cautious. When I did my practice that evening, I was a little scared. I didn't want to push anything. So I didn't focus on the black flame much (maybe a few seconds here and there to affirm it's existence and reaction). After carefully testing, the fear went away but generally I stayed away and stuck to the normal routine.

quote:

EGO bends down to get a better look at the glowing body with the smiling face and attentive lingam.


The part though that is a little strange to me is that my lingam was not erect. ?? It is more like a draw from the testicles [perenium] mixed in with the sacral chakra, the lower tan tien and the solar plexus chakra following the frontal vagus nerve route upwards. That was what is sort of surprising about the heat rising up the spine.. It was almost as if the water path melted some drops that fed the fire path up the spine.

quote:

Take it easy and think about saving some for later.



I found your post called "Pushing through the fear" and I read Jim's caution which says "And there can be time lags of a few days before symptoms appear." Hmmm. Yogani also warns about this effect. I've noticed it too a few days later after going for gusto with bhastrika when I first started practicing.

I'm fine today. I did two standard practices with meditations and I noticed that it is a bit harder to find the black flame, but it is still there. And yes, there is a certain amount of trepidation that is evident now right before practice. There is also awe and intrigue which sort of interferes a bit with the meditation. We'll see what happens tomorrow.

Thanks again for your comments.

TI





Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Apr 01 2008 01:13:38 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
There's no cockchakra!



Hi Jim
Are you sure? I found this
quote:

The chakra beneath the Sea of Chi Centre is the Genital or Pubic Centre. This chakra is refrerred to by Barbara Brennan as the Pubic Centre, and in Taoism is called the Sperm or Ovarian Palace (Jing Gong/Zhongji) in Taoism.

It is located in men at the base of the penis, and in women above the pubic bone, approximately one palm's width below the navel [Chia, p.187]. It supports the genitals and the sex-drive. The sexual organs themselves also possess their own minor chakras which are responsible for sexual functioning and the sex and reproductive instincts, but these chakras connect to the rest of the energy system of the organism through the Pubic Chakra in the front, and the Sacral Chakra to the rear



Here is the link: http://www.kheper.net/topics/chakras/Pubic.htm


TI


Reply author: selfonlypath
Replied on: Apr 01 2008 02:55:51 AM
Message:

Hello Jim,

Using under the hood tibetan tantric description, what TI says is correct.

Please see this book on page 19-20 then chapter "Inner Fire" then next chapter:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Oi...DVCBJEs4CdwM

Albert


Reply author: Jim and His Karma
Replied on: Apr 01 2008 08:44:32 AM
Message:

But there's a difference between "the area at the base of the penis" and the penis. The penis is a flap of skin hanging off the body...an optional release valve for downward-oriented energy.


Reply author: selfonlypath
Replied on: Apr 01 2008 1:06:21 PM
Message:

But Jim, I don't understand what you mean because page 19 clearly talks about: tip of sexual organ (2), centre of sexual organ (8) and base of sexual organ (7) used later to perform tummo then even more advanced techniques.

Another very precise description of the 3 sexual chakras can be found on page 108 of the fantastic book "The Bliss of Inner Fire" written by Lama Yeshe. There are the secret chakra, middle secret chakra and tip secret chakra, the latter precisely at the tip of the penis. This book also provides the position of these three sexual chakras for a woman inside her vagina which is not provided in the first book.

After all, the white drop (eventually becomes semen) at the tip of the penis to then go into vagina to meet the red drop (becoming eventually an ovule) to make a human being. So a penis is not just a piece of skin or valve, it has very deep esoteric wirings.

Albert


Reply author: Jim and His Karma
Replied on: Apr 01 2008 6:47:14 PM
Message:

I said "in terms of yoga". I didn't say "in terms of any possible piece of esoteric writing you can find"!

I do apologize for my casual dismissal of the penis. If there are traditions that deem it a useful part of spiritual journey, that's fine by me.

But getting back to yoga in general, and AYP in particular, the big important connection is ajna to mulha: brow to root. Practitioners interpreting the base of that connection to be in the genitals should know they'll likely soon come to see that that's not quite really it. No need to force or conceptualize anything. It's just a good thing to bear in mind.


Reply author: scottfitzgerald
Replied on: Apr 01 2008 8:21:37 PM
Message:

I found the penis to be an item of discussion only in the early days of AYP--with a bit of refinement that part gets sort of left out of the equation. Not that I mind at this point.

In truth--Willy's not the root. I can understand for some men that may be a hard truth to come by. The path is of transcendance, and that includes going beyond our lingam. The energy that resided there (or we gave to it) is much better focused on the practices.


Reply author: Jim and His Karma
Replied on: Apr 01 2008 11:24:34 PM
Message:

Yeah.

At first, everything "down there" feels like genitals...because, let's face it, those are the star players and focus of concentration for the vast majority of people (how many have even heard of a "perineum"?) By the time you start getting more precise and fine-tuned body sense, and, especially, energetic body sense, the genitals don't seem to play that much part.

At least in the yoga tradition.....


Reply author: selfonlypath
Replied on: Apr 02 2008 01:28:54 AM
Message:

Yes Jim, i totally agree.

Just have in mind that tibetan consider 10 doors or gates to dissolve the winds into central channel.

They always recommend to practice first through navel gate (tummo aka inner fire yoga) and then, depending on what you want to practice, you can train on using other doors. For example, throat chakra door is very good to have powerful lucid dreams hence practicing dream yoga. Tip of penis door is best to have a long night of sleep hence very useful to practice deep sleep yoga (much more difficult than dream yoga). Heart chakra door is to practice clear light awareness linked to go consciously into death zone.

As a reminder, they never recommend using crown chakra door at the beginning which is the same recommendation provided by AYP system to avoid deep imbalance. Only when tummo is mastered (amp up red drops aka Shakti or Earth connection), then you can eventually practice crown chakra door (amp up white drops aka Shiva or Sky connection).

Albert


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Apr 02 2008 12:14:17 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma

Yeah.

At first, everything "down there" feels like genitals...because, let's face it, those are the star players and focus of concentration for the vast majority of people (how many have even heard of a "perineum"?) By the time you start getting more precise and fine-tuned body sense, and, especially, energetic body sense, the genitals don't seem to play that much part.

At least in the yoga tradition.....



Hi Jim
I think we are probably saying the same thing. I found this:
"Through the practice of Kriya, we can have an experience of the Chakras.
Starting from Muladhar, the root Chakra, located over the anus at the very base of the spinal column, in the lower part of the coccyx, we encounter a centre which distributes energy to the legs, to the lowest part of the pelvis, irradiating especially the Gonads (testes in men, ovaries in women). "

Here is the link: http://www.kriyayogainfo.net/glossary.html

So, Ennio is saying that the root chakra is connected to the gonads which might explain the flacid lingam yet the wave field of magnetic energy circulating around the 'genitals'. Perhaps my reference to 'genitals' could have been more exact but the magnetic field which I felt seemed to encompass the whole outer stucture..


TI


Reply author: emc
Replied on: Apr 02 2008 4:23:22 PM
Message:

When making Love in stillness (not having sex), there's a profound energy coming from the tip of the penis. In particular, when being in the vagina all the way in, that's where the melting starts... That's where the beautiful dance begins... all by itself.

Just my two cents...


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Apr 02 2008 5:09:24 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by emc

When making Love in stillness (not having sex), there's a profound energy coming from the tip of the penis. In particular, when being in the vagina all the way in, that's where the melting starts... That's where the beautiful dance begins... all by itself.

Just my two cents...



Hi emc
That is lovely to know! Thank you :)
I've read in tantric books and some taoist texts that there is also a chakra at the cervix (which is negative in charge) and that when it touches the tip of the penis (positive charge) it creates a powerful connection resulting in intense energy tranfers/flows. I would imagine that to complete the circuit both participants need another connection, like heart chakras joined or perhaps the tips of the tongues if their pathways are clear..


TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Apr 02 2008 6:02:04 PM
Message:

Hi
It's been three days since discovering the black flame. So far, I feel fine; I have not noticed any serious repercussions from the adventure aside from this very interesting experience:

Last night I took a hot bath with patchouli, lavendar and rose essential oils. Because I had been reading Yogani's Mantra modification lesson, I decide to chant "AUM" for a while, as I lay there soaking. I spent a few minutes reverberating the "AUM", trying variations like "Ong" and "Om". I noticed that the "Ong" makes the nasal cavity resonate more while the "Om" causes the upper lip to vibrate. I was feeling quite relaxed so I stopped and was laying there in the tub.

Suddenly, in my third eye, a color picture appeared and I could hear "AUM". It sounded like a chorus of angels, a thousand voices all in perfect harmony resonating perfectly. The sound has a 'suspended' quality to it, like it is just hanging there. The sound pitches range from very low to very high. It looks like a round etheric image of various pastel colors but the colors are very subtle. It has a vapory quality about it. It is very easy to focus on it, it is very attractive and awesome. It is almost like it is focusing on me!

As I watched the scene and listened to the sound, the top and bottom of the round part of the image opened up and circled around, forming two white tubes, one on each side like this: o)(o I thought that was strange. The "AUM" feels like one long tunnel or cable and it folded over into two smaller white misty tunnels. This puzzled me somewhat. Two smaller tunnels... hmmm. I would distact myself and then focus on the "AUM" again, hear the sound, view the scene and the same transformation would take place; from one etheric sphere-like tunnel or cable to an expanse with two smaller tunnels on each side.

Today, during my morning meditation/practice session, I had great difficulty using the "i am" mantra. Instead, the "AUM" appeared. I love it, it is so impelling and profound. However, I kept trying to figure out if I should just watch and listen to the AUM, or stick to my routine and before I knew it, 40 minutes had passed.. So I went back to my desk. I felt so relaxed that I just went back into the AUM. Then a strange thing happened. All of a sudden, all thoughts ceased and it was like I had a solid beam of attention moving towards the AUM. My mind was exceptionally clear and felt kind of powerful and very focussed. This caused my head to move upwards, pulling my face upwards slowly by degrees.

Twenty seconds/minutes later or so I quit because it was lunch time. (kind of lost track of time). As I walked outside to the cafeteria, the AUM remained in my head.

It is persistent. When I focus on it, which is very easy to do, I experience very fine tingles and energy flows. There is definately an aura of pure divine essence in the AUM. When I focus on it and then split my attention to my immediate surroundings, like standing next to people in line, I can sense them with a greater perspicacity.

Now, I don't think that this experience is related to the black flame, but perhaps it might be. I wonder why the AUM scene kept folding into two smaller tunnels. Is one tunnel coming and the other one going? I'll have to explore some more..


TI


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Apr 02 2008 7:53:07 PM
Message:

Hi TI,

I would recomend that when you experiment with new practices, that you try just 5 or 10 minutes a day of a new practice, and then see how it is going after a week or two. This would limit the chances of anything going seriously wrong.

With your third eye experiment I would have expected things to go pear shaped after an hour or two if they were going to. Luckily they didn't. If you repeated the experiment for an hour a day, every day, then there could be an energy build up happening which could backfire on you further down the line (like after a week or so).

Great to hear about your experiments, and good luck.

Christi


Reply author: selfonlypath
Replied on: Apr 03 2008 10:54:07 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
I've read in tantric books and some taoist texts that there is also a chakra at the cervix (which is negative in charge) and that when it touches the tip of the penis (positive charge) it creates a powerful connection resulting in intense energy tranfers/flows. I would imagine that to complete the circuit both participants need another connection, like heart chakras joined or perhaps the tips of the tongues if their pathways are clear..


From page 108 of the book "The Bliss of Inner Fire" by Lama Yeshe:

http://books.google.fr/books?id=F9g...O83anY4mMSVg

There is also the secret, or sex, chakra. This is red, has thirty-two branches, and is level with the base of the spine. In a man, this is located at the base of the sex organ. As well, there is the middle secret chakra, also known as the jewel chakra, which is white and has eight branch channels; and there is the tip secret chakra, which is at the end of the penis, where the central channel ends.
A question might arise: the secret chakras of the male body are explained very clearly, but what about teh female chakras ? A woman also has three secret chakras: the secret, middle secret, and tip secret. For a woman, however, these three are hidden inside her body. The tip secret chakra, where her central channel ends, is at the end of the cervix where it opens into the vagina. The man's organ is outside, but the woman's is held inside. As this shows, there is a mutual arrangement between male's vajra and female's lotus.
Completion stage tantra also explains that a yogini has a subtle channel that extends from the end of her central channel, and that when the male and female organs join, this subtle channel enters the central channel of the yogi, giving rise to incredible bliss.


Albert


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Apr 03 2008 11:27:28 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by selfonlypath

From page 108 of the book "The Bliss of Inner Fire" by Lama Yeshe:

http://books.google.fr/books?id=F9g...O83anY4mMSVg

There is also the secret, or sex, chakra. This is red, has thirty-two branches, and is level with the base of the spine. In a man, this is located at the base of the sex organ. As well, there is the middle secret chakra, also known as the jewel chakra, which is white and has eight branch channels; and there is the tip secret chakra, which is at the end of the penis, where the central channel ends.
A question might arise: the secret chakras of the male body are explained very clearly, but what about teh female chakras ? A woman also has three secret chakras: the secret, middle secret, and tip secret. For a woman, however, these three are hidden inside her body. The tip secret chakra, where her central channel ends, is at the end of the cervix where it opens into the vagina. The man's organ is outside, but the woman's is held inside. As this shows, there is a mutual arrangement between male's vajra and female's lotus.
Completion stage tantra also explains that a yogini has a subtle channel that extends from the end of her central channel, and that when the male and female organs join, this subtle channel enters the central channel of the yogi, giving rise to incredible bliss.


Albert


Hi Albert
Thank you very much for that! I appreciate it. Something I've always wanted to get confirmation about. The more the better. :)

I can see my root chakra at the base of the spine. It looks like a golden square from the top and somewhat pyramidical from the side. It has four dark red petals on the sides. There is a fine thread that comes out of the top of it progressing upwards into the spine. I believe this is the root chakra.

But the great part is this: A while ago, during a full body crystal layout, when some Reiki healers and I did a healing on lower end because I had started to get a sensation of a large heat ball in my buttocks area, I started to see a red thing that looked sort of like a pomegranite in that very same area. It was ruby red or perhaps a bit brighter. The whole image was not clear, but I could make out perhaps 30% of it. So that explains what that is!

I can also see my lower tan tien. It looks like a golden-orange ball, but that is higher up closer to and behind the navel. When I focus on that, I can release tingles from it that go up my spine and make me shiver.. It has a different flavour of tingles than the sacral chakra, which I can feel but cannot yet see..

Thanks again, Albert
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Apr 03 2008 11:49:58 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Hi TI,

I would recomend that when you experiment with new practices, that you try just 5 or 10 minutes a day of a new practice, and then see how it is going after a week or two. This would limit the chances of anything going seriously wrong.

With your third eye experiment I would have expected things to go pear shaped after an hour or two if they were going to. Luckily they didn't. If you repeated the experiment for an hour a day, every day, then there could be an energy build up happening which could backfire on you further down the line (like after a week or so).

Great to hear about your experiments, and good luck.

Christi



Hi Christi
One of the purposes of my 'experiment' was to determine where I should be fixing my eyes when I meditate. You see, when I was meditating I would focus my gaze gently upwards between my brows. At the end of the meditation session, there was a big area on my forehead that felt like a numb kind of pressure and the rest of my brain felt somewhat numb too. Then, I discovered if I pulled my gaze a bit futher back, that is when the sensations started. So, I didn't think I was doing deep silence meditation anymore.

I have resolved my plight now. I do not focus on that area anymore, instead, there is a bright white light with some yellow in it about 20 degrees off top dead centre that I focus on, where the tunnel is. It is not that clear, but it started appearing yesterday, so I focus on that with my visual attention. I'm getting pretty good at it and I can almost get a constant stream of attention on it and leave it to focus on the mantra. When I start to get a constant stream of attention on it, parts of my body dissolve. Like yesterday, my legs and front arms dissolved. I could not feel them, they had become vapour or ether or something. Didn't really bother me, I just made a mental note of it and kept going.

Tonight's meditation was very good. Although I do get a lot of heat when I do mulabandha during spinal breathing, I keep it short; about 10 minutes. Then, I fix my gaze up, keep my tongue on my uvula and start the 'i am' mantra. At the end of tonight's session, when the time was up, I just let go. There was this big empty space in my head. My forehead was numb and it was so wonderful to just sit there. I also noticed that the tip of my tongue tingles like a small electric current has been passing through it. And, at times, I still had a sensation in the bottom end, but it was very mild.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I will keep it in mind. Mind you, I do have a habit of doing extended meditations and other things every once in while. It helps me learn things, push the envelope a little bit and expand my understanding.


TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Apr 09 2008 12:42:03 AM
Message:

Hi Everyone
Part of my learning experience has been "where to focus the eyes". Since discovering the area behind my brow which causes the 'connectedness to the testicles' feeling followed by 'the body dissolving' followed by 'heat up the spine' I've been focusing much higher with my gaze and visual attention. This is a mistake. The area to focus on, for me, is behind the brow about 1 inch in and up slightly. Perhaps this is the junction at the top of the sinus where the prana and apana meet and can be combined?

Tonight, I found this article which motivated me to go back to that same location behind my brow.

Here is the link:
http://meditation.org.au/forum/topi...TOPIC_ID=423

Here are the instructions:

quote:

Trataka : Meditation of third eye

Your third eye is hungry for awareness !.......

The meditation technique which you are going to read is 'Trataka' (also known as third eye meditation). In the belief system of 'Tantra' and 'Hatha Yoga' there is a concept of Kundalini .

[ Have you ever heard of Tantra or 'Hatha' Yoga ? If not then let me tell you very briefly that 'Tantra' is a sort of esoteric spiritual path that involves doing a number of activities which seem bizarre and odd to many people. Soon I'll write a separate article on Tantra. Keep watching ' New Articles'

'Hatha' Yoga is a branch of Yoga and it involves indulging in various physical exercises and breathing routines (known as Pranayam.) Many things in 'Hatha Yoga' and Tantra are common' . In this article, without going into the details of Tantra, Hatha Yoga or Pranayam, I have tried to present a simple meditation technique of third eye. The topics of Tantra, Hatha & Pranayam will be covered in other articles soon]

It has been discovered that there are seven chakras (or points of consciousness) in our body. These Chakras (literally Chakra means rings) are situated at different points in our body. Among these Chakras, the 6th Chakra is known as ' Aagya Chakra' located between the eyebrows and is said to be the seat of the mystical "third eye".

The physical location of this chakra is at the center of our forehead. Just above the place between our eyes. It is believed that Kundalini (the energy field) travels from the first Chakra (also known as Muladhara Chakra, situated at the base of our spine) and travels to 2nd, 3rd, 4th?..chakra to reach the 7th Chakra of Sahasrara. Here it meets with the Supreme Consciousness- Shiva. The 'Agya Chakra' is the 6th chakra (the second last Chakra in the path of Kundalini).

This 3rd eye meditation revolves around this 6th center of consciousness - Agya Chakra. This Agya Chakra' is considered as the center where our third eye resides. Though there is no physical third eye present in the body but at a more subtle, spiritual plane it has been experienced by many people that a stimulating center of consciousness exist here. Trataka (or third eye meditation) is the meditation technique of 'Agya Chakra'. When we focus our awareness on third eye, we automatically and instantly attain a meditative state.

Now without further going into the scientific explanation or spiritual significance of this meditation technique let us learn the exact method of this simple meditation technique of 'Trataka' which may take you into a meditative state instantly.

Here is the method:

[Please don't do this meditation in train or bus i.e. while traveling. You'll not be able to do it properly when your body is in motion. ]

Sit in the lotus pose (cross legged). [if it not possible for you then sit comfortably on chair or bad]

keep your spine straight.

close your eyes.

inhale and exhale deeply for 3 times.

Now concentrate on the middle of your forehead around the area which is a few centimeters above the middle of your eyes.

Keep your eyes closed and draw both of your eyes towards this center point of 3rd eye. I mean just look upwards with your eyes closed . Focus your closed eyes at 20-25 degrees above just at the center of the forehead (at the place of third eye.) Now slowly at about two-second interval, start counting in your mind backward from one hundred to one (that is 100,99,98,97....and so on). As you do it, keep your eyes centered towards the third eye.

[ Here I want to clear a doubt which comes in the mind of many people ]

Well it seems too vogue to know the exact position of third eye. In the middle of forehead is OK. but as I try to concentrate my both eyes at that point I get confused where is the exact point of third eye ? Is there a way to know that I have centered my eyes exactly on third eye?

Answer : To know exactly that you have centered your eyes on the third eye is very simple. As you draw your eyes towards the center of forehead by looking upwards at 20-25 degree angle, at a particular point both of your eyes will become still, absolutely motionless. You will feel as if a force is slowly pulling your eyes towards itself. It will be just like a magnetic attraction. As and when you experience this state, you'll be at the right point ! ]

Do you know what you'll feel ? You'll feel a pleasant strain on your eyes.

yes ! a pleasant strain in eyes.

There will be a strain but you will enjoy it. By the time you reach 3..2...1(in backward counting), you will feel a strange sensation in and around your third eye. There will be a feeling which is difficult to describe in words. Keep your concentration on third eye.

Once you achieved this state of stillness of eyes many of you will feel as if you can see your thoughts. Just like a screen you will see your thought appearing before you

. Have you ever thought what is the source through which we see the inner thought process of our body ?. When you close your eyes there are many things which we see and observe. We observe all those things through third eye.

Your thoughts will stop. If they appear at all, you will be able to see them like a dream. In this situation you will realize the real watcher in you. You will be able to easily perceive the witness inside you. Something different from body and mind and yet a part of you.

Just be in this state for 10-15 minutes.

Now slowly return from this state to the state of normalcy. Release the strain from your eyes and slowly shift them from the third eye to their normal position. Let them loose and free. Move your consciousness from the third eye.

Be still for few minutes. Allow the eyes to retain their normal movements. Inhale and exhale deeply for three time. Slowly open your eyes. Your meditation is complete.

This third eye meditation is a very powerful method for developing concentration. This is also a very very helpful exercise for eyes too. Your eyes will remain healthy. No matter how much strain and tension your eyes are subjected to in a day, doing this meditation daily in morning and evening insure your eyes against any further damage.

Meditating on 'Agya Chakra' is also believed to be helpful in developing intuitive power. Doing this meditation regularly certainly helps in developing intuition but I must clarify that the concept of intuition and clairvoyance are beyond the scope of this website. Here we will restrict ourselves with just learning meditation. Please note that we should not learn meditation for gaining some kind of meta-physical or supernatural expertise.

Learn meditation for the sheer joy of meditation, for the bliss it provides us. If you expect something from it, you will deviate from the path . Don't expect anything and you may get many rewards.

FEW WORDS OF WARNING:

Though I have taken care in explaining this meditation technique of Trataka by telling you just that which is sufficient for you ; I still feel that you should be aware of the sensitiveness of this meditation and about some precautions which you should follow while trying this.

When you meditate on Agya Chakra, you meditate on a part of your subtle body. It may happen that when you meditate on your third eye, you feel that the center of your forehead is heating up. When it happens it indicates that the third eye is attracting energy of the Kundalini. Though this heating is not harmful, you should be very careful. There may be a feeling of hotness with itching on third eye area. As and when it happens stop immediately. As a layman who does not know the intricacy of this Kundalini and its various paths, it s better to limit oneself to the process of meditation only i.e. achieving a still and thought-free state of existence.

Please don't indulge in this meditation too deeply if you start feeling too much hot sensation on your third eye area. Few things should be used only in moderation if we do not have the capacity to handle their larger implication.

So be happy and be meditative. Try third eye meditation without giving any thought to Kundalini awakening. Just do what has been told and you will be in meditation. The awakening of Kundalini is a concept of yogis who are full time dedicated to this subject. We, as a common men and women of twenty first century, neither have he time nor the patience which is required for Kundalini awakening. Nevertheless, if you do want to know more and experiment on this, please consult a yogic expert who can personally guide you. As far as meditation is concerned what I have told you is enough.





Tonight, I tried the aforementioned quoted third eye meditation!!!

I did no locks whatsoever, no kechari, no neck lock, not even lotus position just easy posture.

At first, it took me a few minutes to find that spot again, it is true that the angle of vision is about 25 degrees up. I felt a certain place where there is a distinct pressure or pull on the eyes and then the following sensory experiences occured again:

1) A feeling of some sort of connectedness from my brow to my testicles through the front channel in the body (no erection )

2) A feeling like the body is dissolving, some disorientation and floating type of sensation

3) The rise of heat directly up the spine. A slow fire that ascends gradually. (Love it)

4) After stopping the practice after 30 minutes, when the heat reached the top of my neck, I had quite a pain and pressure in my neck. I have noticed that I get this pressure when I channel divine energy from the crown too. I have come to realize that the pain/pressure at the base of the skull where it connects to my neck is an indication that energy is trying to get through or build up. Now I'm thinking that the neck lock and kechari might be very useful here in the future..

I can hardly wait to combine what I've learned from Yogani's lessons with the solidification of technique and understanding that I'm gaining through experimentation.

Meanwhile, if anyone decides to try the quoted meditation for awakening the third eye, I would be very interested to hear about your experiences.


TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Apr 26 2008 2:37:52 PM
Message:

Hi,
This is where I am at now.
I attained Level 3 Usui Reiki two weeks ago. The "Usage of Symbols" attunement opened up my hands quite a bit. The Level 3 attunement produced an effect like being in a rounded cocoon of energy.

About four days ago, during spinal breathing, I started to see the room in which I was meditating through closed eyes. Along with the room I could see my body and my spinal nerve as I was tracing it up and down. It is sort of like the cavern in my head expanded to encompass more of the surrounding area. Since then, this phenomenon is more pronounced and more easily accessible. I'm kind of practicing walking with eyes closed when I get the notion to test it.

Two days ago I performed 1 hour of Kunlun practice at night. That seemed to have opened up the tingle factory more so because the next day, I felt enhanced energy flows and tingles occuring later on in the day. I must admit that I haven't been Kunlun every day, just every now and then. I think of it as 'shaking therapy' to clear my legs.

Yesterday I performed two practice sessions during the day (bhastrika - 5 min, Spinal Breathing -5 min, ayam meditation -20 min, samyama 3- min, rest -10 min). This is my daily routine. All else is additional. Also, I started repeating the mantra like I am calling/whispering God's name.

Last night, after contemplating some Yogi Bhajan and Reiki Tummo practices, I decided to meditate on the point 1 inch behind my third eye. Since my hip was kind of sore from doing the full lotus for 1/2 the day before, I decided to practice while sitting on a chair instead.
I sat on the chair and noticed that my posture was perfect. The chair is just at the right level. I took a deep breath into the depths of my abdomen, relaxed my body and hands, and was feeling very content to be sitting in perfect posture (spine aligned just right).

At that point I noticed a pale white glob of light off in the distance. It was kind of nice and I was attracted to it. It looked like moonlight but the shape was not perfectly round. Since I was going to just focus on the region behind my brow, I proceeded to try to find the spot and focus on it. The glob of light called me back so I had another look at it. I spent maybe 15 seconds just looking at it.

At that point heat and flames started rising from my torso/bottom. Big Flames

Sometimes I will get little flames rising up the spine (a few times) or feel little balls of heat following my attention around my body. This time it was like the flame or ball of heat was about 2 feet wide, from my buttocks to the head. In two seconds I started to sweat. Perspiration was on my chest, back and oozing out from my scalp. I got sort of scared. I had never felt heat like that before. It was too wide and tall. It was like being in a sauna. My whole upper body was surrounded. I wasn't concentrating on anything particularily hard, just watching the light blob, sitting, relaxed in perfect posture. I shut it down. Shocked! Holy crow! I had become a large hot flame in under 1 minute.

I went to bed and layed there. My upper body was hot. My hands were very hot. I contemplated what had just happened. I guess it was more of a surprise than anything. I hadn't expected that type of a reaction. It took me a while to fall asleep. This morning I woke at 6:30 am and felt great. Usually I'll sleep in later on Saturdays, but not today.

Today's morning meditation/practice was fine. I was cautious and on the lookout for the light blob. A little one appeared, shaped like a pine cone but I did not focus on it. Instead, I kept to stock ayp routines. Only my face got hot as usual. No big flames.

I think it will take me a few days to digest the big flame phenonmenon. At this point I'm thinking that if I had continued, I would have either instantly combusted or perhaps experienced the intense rise of the kundalini??? I will have to research whether the full blown kundalini rising is preceeded by quick big flames and heat. Or perhaps someone here has some insight on this?

Thanks.

TI



Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: May 10 2008 11:52:24 PM
Message:

Hi,
I have several stories today.

1) Two days ago I was standing outside. I was looking at the street through my third eye vision with regular eyes closed. The scene was relatively clear; things do not appear as 'flamey' as before. I noticed that there was a white car on the road about 30 feet in front of me. When I opened my eyes, it was not there. I mean, the street had no cars on it. I looked around to see if there was a white car on the other side of the street and there was not.

About five minutes later, the same white car that I had seen drives down the road and stops in the exact same location that I saw it in during the third eye vision! Now I'm figuring that I have to account for some kind of time warp during third eye vision sight. I still can't believe my vision was from 5 minutes into the future.. Hmmm..

2) I was sitting in the bathroom, drinking yogi tea, smoking and reading. I put the book down for a minute. After a few seconds a scene with a buddha sitting appeared right before me in my third eye vision. I watched it. The buddha had a staff in the right hand and a three pronged fork thing in the left hand. It was wearing a red and white gown of sorts and it's hair was tied up in a knot. As I watched, the buddha moved to the right and an infinte number of buddhas appeared as a string behind the first one.

My attention started following the string of buddhas. On and on they went. The trail of buddhas started twisting and turning as we went. My attention kept up. Suddenly, the string of buddhas turned downwards into a whitish tunnel. I tried to follow but I coudn't. So, I started following the tunnel, which turned and spiralled downwards. This went on for a while until the tunnel turned and pointed right at me and a buddha came out of it.

The buddha had a baby in it's arms and held it forward as if to give it to me. The baby had very long black hair and it grew into a female form very quickly. The female (she looked Japanese) then took out a bow and an arrow and shot it in the sky. I followed the arrow and it looked like it had pierced a white cloud that sort of looked like a miniature universe. The female then shot another arrow and this arrow had a flaming tip of fire on it like a burning marshmellow. She then shot a third arrow and this arrow had a 'V' on the tip with sort of rounded edges. After that, she produced a baby girl (pulled it from her abdomen) and held it up proudly in her right hand.

This whole vision lasted about 10 minutes. What the vision means? I don't have a clue but it should be interesting when it reveals itself.

3) I have read the "Clear Light of Bliss" once, and I am now re-reading it, studying it intensely. It is a great book. It has answered so many questions for me, especially about flames and heat!

I cried when I read the part that says the indestructable mind resides in the heart. (Steve is going to love that one.. haha)

The description of the process of concentrative meditation is one of the best I've ever read. Again, emptiness meditation is a separate practice from concentrative meditation, which is interesting because it appears to me that the 'i am' meditation has both intermixed.

According to this book, the main channel is shaped like an umbrella handle and goes from the navel to the heart, then to the throat, next to the crown and finally to the third eye. When I follow that pattern for sucking in cosmic energy through my third eye, my back of the head/neck doesn't hurt as compared to the pain I experience by sucking in the energy straight back from the third eye to the medulla.

The book references an episode of leaving the body through the crown and does state that although this phenomenon is a true experience it does not help in one's spiritual evolution. (This happened to me many years ago after a 3 hour meditation on an area about 6 inches above the crown). It is nice to find confirmation of experiences..

The vase breathing is very clearly described. This was a great mystery to me. You see, chi breathing or reversed breathing involves sort of compressing the air in the abdomen (tan tien) and sort of using the root lock. Yogi Bhajan talks about 'pressure' that is exerted to make the heat rise, but never really explains the process. The "Clear Light of Bliss" explains, step by step, how to store the heat and make the flames rise up the central channel, eventually melting drops that drip back down the central channel causing 4 types of bliss. This process works for me and I can follow it and get results immediately.

It has also explained my experience with too much heat and flames and pointed out some subtler methods of enacting the fire without breath control which also works for me.

I also appreciate that fact that this book has given me a viable explanation of the 'drops' of substance that I can see periodically on the spinal nerve.

There is also a part which explains adequately why the breath stops and how to recognize when central channel 'breathing' is starting to occur.

Funny thing, there is no mention of kundalini anywhere in the whole book, but you'd swear that you were reading a kundalini manual. The essence of the mahamudra is mixing bliss with emptiness, which is very similar if not exactly the same type of thing that the ayp lessons are designed for.

I highly recommend this book to everyone. I have great respect for Gyatso and his accomplishment of writing this book.


TI


Reply author: VIL
Replied on: May 11 2008 07:43:36 AM
Message:

The article utilizes the "V"edanta traditon, explaining the three kinds of karma, via an archery metaphor, to help reduce the amount of experiences and to remember the target of meditation is self-realization through non-attachment to phenomenon:

quote:
Reducing karma through archery: The ancient sages of Yoga and Vedanta use the metaphor of Archery as a teaching tool for how to work with and reduce karma through the process of Yoga meditation. In Yoga Meditation, Karma is of three kinds: Sanchita, Kriyamana, and Prarabhda, using the metaphor of three kinds of arrows in archery. Karma Yoga is the Yoga that emphasizes doing Yoga while also doing actions in the world, or Meditation in action.


...Not becoming diverted by the in-flight arrows: Because of these stray arrows, one may easily become diverted from the path of Self-realization. Those old arrows, shot long ago, continue to come and cause problems. Often what happens is that due to these old arrows, still in flight, we end up firing more arrows along the same off-course path. We can end up having just as many arrows in the air that are off-course, rather than seeing the number go down.

Being kind to ourselves: The solution is to be very kind with ourselves, as we cultivate persistence and patience. We may want spiritual energy, grace, or shakti to come to us, yet one of the first forms of that comes as determination. To have, cultivate, or pray for such determination is an essential practice on the journey to Self-Realization.



http://swamij.com/archery-karma-yoga.htm

Namaste:



VIL


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: May 11 2008 10:55:24 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by VIL

The article utilizes the "V"edanta traditon, explaining the three kinds of karma, via an archery metaphor, to help reduce the amount of experiences and to remember the target of meditation is self-realization through non-attachment to phenomenon:



VIL



Hi VIL,
Thank you very much for the response and possible insight. Somehow, I find the reference to arrows and karma rather disturbing so perhaps there is something there that I need to examine.


TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: May 12 2008 12:12:17 AM
Message:

Hi,
This morning I practiced the mahamudra vase breathing for about 15 minutes. At the end of the session I had a rather nice ball of heat in my lower abdomen.

During my morning's regular practice (breathing exercises and 'i am' mantra meditation), the fire gradually crawled up my spine, which is unusual for that to happen during 'i am' meditation. However, my 'i am' has transformed into a visual picture of the mantra as in: "aaaaaaaaeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmm" which I now watch while I repeat it. The intervals in between repetitions are somewhat silent but still have colors and images appearing..

I followed my morning meditation with a mahamudra heart/mind meditation. Perhaps I am good at this style of single point concentrative meditation (as opposed to mantra repitition)? I focused on the indestructible drop in my heart and kept at it. I discovered that if I control my breathing, not forcing it but by not pausing between breaths and by keeping the breathing really quiet, I could maintain a constant stream of attention on the little whitish ball of light at my heart area. No breaks, just a constant steady stream of attention.
Just as I figured that out and had sustained the focus on the ball of light in my heart for about 10 seconds, that area released many very powerful tingles that went through my whole body, legs and arms included. What a surprise! I started to cry. It was so intense and beautiful! Needless to say, I couldn't meditate any longer and shut the session down. Was that a heart orgasm?



TI


Reply author: greenyogi
Replied on: May 13 2008 04:09:20 AM
Message:

"Clear Light of Bliss" Is it by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso?

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

Hi,
I have several stories today.

1) Two days ago I was standing outside. I was looking at the street through my third eye vision with regular eyes closed. The scene was relatively clear; things do not appear as 'flamey' as before. I noticed that there was a white car on the road about 30 feet in front of me. When I opened my eyes, it was not there. I mean, the street had no cars on it. I looked around to see if there was a white car on the other side of the street and there was not.

About five minutes later, the same white car that I had seen drives down the road and stops in the exact same location that I saw it in during the third eye vision! Now I'm figuring that I have to account for some kind of time warp during third eye vision sight. I still can't believe my vision was from 5 minutes into the future.. Hmmm..

2) I was sitting in the bathroom, drinking yogi tea, smoking and reading. I put the book down for a minute. After a few seconds a scene with a buddha sitting appeared right before me in my third eye vision. I watched it. The buddha had a staff in the right hand and a three pronged fork thing in the left hand. It was wearing a red and white gown of sorts and it's hair was tied up in a knot. As I watched, the buddha moved to the right and an infinte number of buddhas appeared as a string behind the first one.

My attention started following the string of buddhas. On and on they went. The trail of buddhas started twisting and turning as we went. My attention kept up. Suddenly, the string of buddhas turned downwards into a whitish tunnel. I tried to follow but I coudn't. So, I started following the tunnel, which turned and spiralled downwards. This went on for a while until the tunnel turned and pointed right at me and a buddha came out of it.

The buddha had a baby in it's arms and held it forward as if to give it to me. The baby had very long black hair and it grew into a female form very quickly. The female (she looked Japanese) then took out a bow and an arrow and shot it in the sky. I followed the arrow and it looked like it had pierced a white cloud that sort of looked like a miniature universe. The female then shot another arrow and this arrow had a flaming tip of fire on it like a burning marshmellow. She then shot a third arrow and this arrow had a 'V' on the tip with sort of rounded edges. After that, she produced a baby girl (pulled it from her abdomen) and held it up proudly in her right hand.

This whole vision lasted about 10 minutes. What the vision means? I don't have a clue but it should be interesting when it reveals itself.

3) I have read the "Clear Light of Bliss" once, and I am now re-reading it, studying it intensely. It is a great book. It has answered so many questions for me, especially about flames and heat!

I cried when I read the part that says the indestructable mind resides in the heart. (Steve is going to love that one.. haha)

The description of the process of concentrative meditation is one of the best I've ever read. Again, emptiness meditation is a separate practice from concentrative meditation, which is interesting because it appears to me that the 'i am' meditation has both intermixed.

According to this book, the main channel is shaped like an umbrella handle and goes from the navel to the heart, then to the throat, next to the crown and finally to the third eye. When I follow that pattern for sucking in cosmic energy through my third eye, my back of the head/neck doesn't hurt as compared to the pain I experience by sucking in the energy straight back from the third eye to the medulla.

The book references an episode of leaving the body through the crown and does state that although this phenomenon is a true experience it does not help in one's spiritual evolution. (This happened to me many years ago after a 3 hour meditation on an area about 6 inches above the crown). It is nice to find confirmation of experiences..

The vase breathing is very clearly described. This was a great mystery to me. You see, chi breathing or reversed breathing involves sort of compressing the air in the abdomen (tan tien) and sort of using the root lock. Yogi Bhajan talks about 'pressure' that is exerted to make the heat rise, but never really explains the process. The "Clear Light of Bliss" explains, step by step, how to store the heat and make the flames rise up the central channel, eventually melting drops that drip back down the central channel causing 4 types of bliss. This process works for me and I can follow it and get results immediately.

It has also explained my experience with too much heat and flames and pointed out some subtler methods of enacting the fire without breath control which also works for me.

I also appreciate that fact that this book has given me a viable explanation of the 'drops' of substance that I can see periodically on the spinal nerve.

There is also a part which explains adequately why the breath stops and how to recognize when central channel 'breathing' is starting to occur.

Funny thing, there is no mention of kundalini anywhere in the whole book, but you'd swear that you were reading a kundalini manual. The essence of the mahamudra is mixing bliss with emptiness, which is very similar if not exactly the same type of thing that the ayp lessons are designed for.

I highly recommend this book to everyone. I have great respect for Gyatso and his accomplishment of writing this book.


TI


Reply author: VIL
Replied on: May 13 2008 09:13:51 AM
Message:

Hey, TI, I know that with dreams it's important to discriminate or understand what the symbolism is attempting to convey to get in touch with ourselves. So, although I don't have awake dreams, I figured that maybe if this same perspective is employed then a new awareness may be gleaned from the visions by learning to also look at things, symbolically, as you do literally, so that the experience can transform into something more subtle.

I think this is a misconception that when detachment to these expressions are mentioned that it's like asking a person to give up a part of themselves, alluding that a person is crazy or what they're experiencing is not real, and this is never my intention. I know that we all possess gifts that are a part of who we are and I've noticed that many people, as shared even on this forum, experience these things. But what I've also noticed is that sometimes detachment entails a process of letting go of these experiences, little by little, instead of cold turkey, depending on the person, so that these are no longer necessary/observable, although the gift (if it's more palatable) or energy expression, does not go away, but just like energy, merely transforms into something less overt/obvious/gross, into something more subtle, such as intuition, insight, knowingness or whatever.

Anyway, so I posted the article, since the commonly used archery metaphor came to mind when I read your post, so that maybe you can learn that even if these experiences happen, or you have a gift of seeing within the future, what if you reexamined these visions so that there is no longer a need to actually see the future, since you know how to proceed as each situation presents itself, thereby creating the future within each moment. In other words, really getting in touch with ourselves, by listening to that subtle aspect of who we are, so that we just know things that seem impossible to know, and if you end up knowing the future, by being present, then it is what it is. So detachment is actually self development and transformation.

So this is my current perceptions, so take what is applicable and discard the rest, since I am always a work in progress:

Namaste:



VIL


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: May 13 2008 10:36:58 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by greenyogi

"Clear Light of Bliss" Is it by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso?



Hi greenyogi
Yes it is. Why do you ask?
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: May 13 2008 11:34:12 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by VIL

Hey, TI, I know that with dreams it's important to discriminate or understand what the symbolism is attempting to convey to get in touch with ourselves. So, although I don't have awake dreams, I figured that maybe if this same perspective is employed then a new awareness may be gleaned from the visions by learning to also look at things, symbolically, as you do literally, so that the experience can transform into something more subtle.


Hi Vil
If you want to have awake dreams, try meditating lying down. For me, it's like watching cable tv and someone is continually switching the channel. If that doesn't work for you, try meditating lying down with a piece of apophyllite on your third eye.

I appreciate your advice. There are two events that come to mind when I analyze my vision of the archer (after reflecting for a few days on it now):
1) I recently met a woman with very long black hair who is a buddhist, who resembles the archeress in the vision.
2) There is a story in "The Clear Light of Bliss" wherein an archer and a swordsman were fighting each other. When the archer shot an arrow, the swordsman, having perfect concentration, would twirl his swords so fast that the arrow disintegrated. So, the archer got his wife to dress seductively and wander within the swordsman's view. At the very instant that the swordsman saw the wife, the archer shot and killed the swordsman.
In the book, it uses this example to laud the merits of unbroken concentration. I practice unbroken high-intensity concentrative meditation on occasion so I have high regard for this practice as it seems to be one method of dissolving the winds into the central channel.

Perhaps these two events have some connection to the vision?
The other thing I will say is that I've always had trouble linking non-meditating visions to reality and my mind seems to always enforce some kind of meaning to them. It is interesting that the visions are coming closer to reality now.. Also, when I visualize the mailbox, now I can see that I'm sending some kind of white mist out of my third eye to go grasp the mailbox. I can see it pick up and project out. Fascinating stuff. I'm sure it's a technique that others have written about but I haven't researched it.


quote:

I think this is a misconception that when detachment to these expressions are mentioned that it's like asking a person to give up a part of themselves, alluding that a person is crazy or what they're experiencing is not real, and this is never my intention. I know that we all possess gifts that are a part of who we are and I've noticed that many people, as shared even on this forum, experience these things. But what I've also noticed is that sometimes detachment entails a process of letting go of these experiences, little by little, instead of cold turkey, depending on the person, so that these are no longer necessary/observable, although the gift (if it's more palatable) or energy expression, does not go away, but just like energy, merely transforms into something less overt/obvious/gross, into something more subtle, such as intuition, insight, knowingness or whatever.



I don't believe those are 'gifts'. I believe that anyone can do the same once they understand what it is, how to do it and what to practice.
Attachment first, then detachment. I'm the kind of person who has to experience things myself and learn, rather than take someone's advice (however true and correct that advice is). Before you can detach from something, you have to know what it is you are detaching from, eh?
As the initial awe wears off and it all becomes more familiar I will detach myself from the phenomenon. Already, I have detached from the myriad of visions that I see during meditation; they serve no purpose, have no meaning and are a distraction. But at least now I understand that. I'm sure the same will apply to the rest of it once the novelty wears off. My goal is enlightenment. I would like to join the rest of the Buddhas and help elevate the rest of humanity.

quote:

Anyway, so I posted the article, since the commonly used archery metaphor came to mind when I read your post, so that maybe you can learn that even if these experiences happen, or you have a gift of seeing within the future, what if you reexamined these visions so that there is no longer a need to actually see the future, since you know how to proceed as each situation presents itself, thereby creating the future within each moment. In other words, really getting in touch with ourselves, by listening to that subtle aspect of who we are, so that we just know things that seem impossible to know, and if you end up knowing the future, by being present, then it is what it is. So detachment is actually self development and transformation.


Again, I appreciate the correspondence.
I'm still in awe of the concept that there is no past or future. Right now I'm viewing this phenonmenon as a sort of confirmation of that and it blows my meager intellect! I'm also having a hard time understanding the argument used to justify the idea that there is no 'I' in the Clear Light of Bliss. I'd really like to experience that one!

Thanks again VIL for the chance to slow down and examine my statements and experiences. I hope you are progressing well on your path.

TI


Reply author: VIL
Replied on: May 14 2008 08:14:48 AM
Message:

quote:
Thanks again VIL for the chance to slow down and examine my statements and experiences. I hope you are progressing well on your path.

TI


No, thank you, TI, I appreciate your honesty and sharing your perspective and I always learn from everyone. About the progression part, I just try to go with it, with the ups and downs that we all experience.

Namaste:



VIL


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: May 15 2008 12:58:00 AM
Message:

Strange phenomenon:
For the last few days I have added a 20 minute heart meditation to the end of my routine. Last night, I discovered that if I am sad, tingles come from the back of my head and move downwards into my arms and body. If I am happy, smile and focus on my heart, the tingles travel upwards from my heart and then fill my whole body. I kind of spent a few minutes playing with this. I ended up being bathed in tingles for some 15 minutes. Took a long time to get to sleep after. So, I've now recognized that tingles can come from the dan tien, the perenium, the heart and the back of the head. Each type of tingle has it's own distinct rate of vibration or flavour.

At the end of these meditation sessions, with the added concentrative meditation on the little bluish indestructable drop in my heart which I can easily see thanks to Samyama on "Love" which blew open my heart chakra a while back, I get to a point where it is like I can see the room and everything is bathed in a faint yellowish/green light. And, whatever I focus on, or move my attention to, there seems to be two rays of something that points to the focal point from my heart, like a reversed 'V'. It is rather strange. It is like a state of super concentration happens and it makes you feel really power-full mentally. I wonder if this is part of the phenomenon of the Witness???

Anyway, I was sitting in the restaurant tonight and I was just kind of reflecting on this strange state that I have just described. As I reflected and imagined or focused on the feelings of that state, I could feel it quite well, almost like I was in that state.

The waitress plopped a cup of coffee on the table and when I went to speak and say thank you to the waitress, my consciousness was a blob of pliable goo and it kind of whiplashed at her. Then, my brain swooned and I felt like I had awoken from a dream. I mean, you know that kind of magnetic feeling you get in your fingers if you shake your hands for 1/2 minute? It feels like there is a magnetic field which kind of lags behind your moving fingers for just an instant. Well, that's what my mind did, or rather the scene/reflection that I was thinking about had texture and a weight which elasticized and then whiplashed out! It took a real effort to speak "Thank you".

Kind of dumbfounded, I sat there contemplating what had just happened. That is when I noticed that the table top didn't look like a table top anymore. It was shimmering and vibrating and I could see a faint whitish mist entertwined in the molecules. It had a distinct non-coporeal quality and I felt like I could have gently moved my hand right through it.

Has anyone here had these types of experiences? If so, I'd be very interested to hear about them.

Thanks.

TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: May 16 2008 02:37:48 AM
Message:

Hi
Here is a deeper view of the concepts from some of my remarks from earlier posts in this thread. This is helping me get a better understanding of the AYP techniques and it might help you too.

The purpose of presenting the following quotes in this forum is as follows:
1) This text presents the end result of attaining the highest level of tranquil abiding (which I interpret as deep silence in AYP terminology) is that the crown opens up and transforms the body and mind. Following that, tranquil abiding on emptiness bestows miraculous powers and leads to true enlightenment.

2) These teachings indicate that the central channel (spinal nerve) goes from the neck chakra to the crown and then to the brow. This is the same path that Barbara Brennan indicates in her "Hands of Light" book. Although this is not mentioned in the upcoming quotes, it is mentioned in the "Clear Light of Bliss" book elsewhere in the visualization meditations.

3) Before one performs meditation on emptiness, one must have reached an attainment of level 9 in tranquil abiding.

4) The book recommends meditating on the little whitish blue indestructible drop at the heart chakra in the central channel, because that is the 'eternal mind'. Thus, mind meditates on mind.

5) Offhand, I would agree that the 'i am' meditation is easier to perform than this type of concentrative meditation. Also, the 'i am' meditation seems to be a blend of concentration and deep silence realization built into one. With tranquil abiding, one must reach level 9 first and then turn one's attention to meditating on emptiness.

Here are excerpts from the "Clear Light Of Bliss" by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso:

First of all, here are the levels of tranquil abiding meditation:
Level 1:
"At the first stage, placing the mind, we will barely be able to hold the meditation object before losing it. Again and again, we will have to seek and find the object and then try to hold it."

Level 2: "Eventually, we will be able to remain focused on the object for up to five minutes without losing it. When we are able to do this, we will have reached the second stage, continual placement."

Level 3: "At the third stage of mental development, we have to employ new mindfulness again and again because the mind keeps losing its object of meditation."

Level 4: "Eventually, however, we reach the point where we are able to hold the object without ever having to employ new mindfulness. When we are able to do this, we have attained the fourth mental abiding, 'close placement'. Because at this stage our mindfulness does not degenerate once it has been set, it is said that we are now maintaining our meditation by means of 'old' mindfulness."

Level 5: "However, the excessive effort needed to maintain this unbroken level of concentration causes the mind to become too collected and, as a result, subtle mental sinking occurs. Thus, on the fifth stage, which is called 'controlled mind', it is necessary to apply the force of alertness to uplift the mind by gripping the object more firmly. We need to relax slightly the effort of maintaining our concentration, yet still be able to remain single pointedly on it."

Level 6: "At the sixth stage, known as 'pacifying', we complete the force of alertness. Although at this stage there is no more danger of subtle mental sinking, there is still a danger of subtle mental excitement that results from tightening the grip on the object and overly uplifting the mind at the previous stage. This subtle mental excitement is overcome through the force of alertness."

Level 7: "On the seventh stage, the balance of our concentration cannot be disturbed by either mental sinking or subtle mental excitement, because the forces of mindfulness and alertness are now complete. Although it is still possible for either obstacle to arise, we can immediately overcome them through the force of effort. This stage is know as 'completely pacifying'."

Level 8: "At the eighth stage, known as 'single-pointedness', it is impossible for mental sinking and mental excitement to develop at all. Now it requires only a little effort to remain focused on the meditation object for an entire session without experiencing the slightest interruption to concentration."

Level 9: "Finally, on the ninth stage, known as 'placement in equipose', we are able to maintain faultless concentration without any effort. We have become so familiar with the object of meditation that it requires no effort at all to remain focused on it single-pointedly. Our concentration is now sustained by the force of complete familiarity."


Now that we have an introduction to the nine levels of tranquil abiding meditation, this next section explains the inevitable outcome of performing this type of 'concentrative meditation':

"After we have attained the ninth mental abiding, and we can remain focused effortlessly and unwaveringly on the object of meditation, we then have to pass through various states of mental and physical suppleness before we reach the actual state of tranquil abiding. At the ninth stage, we will experience a very special, beneficial wind flowing throughout our crown channel wheel. The movement of this wind will induce a great mental suppleness and our mind will become completely free from discomfort, extremely flexible, and delighted to engage in any virtuous activity. Eventually, this wind will flow throughout our body, thereby inducing a great physical suppleness. As a result, our body will be very agile and comfortable and we will find it very easy to engage in virtuous actions. It will seem very light and we will feel as if we are almost able to fly. This experience of lightness and freedom induces an intense feeling of bliss of physical suppleness. As a result of experiencing this, the mind then attains an immutable bliss of mental suppleness. Once we have attained this bliss of mental suppleness, we have reached the actual state of tranquil abiding. This state possesses such extraordinary clarity of mind that we feel as though we could count all the atoms of the world!

...

There are two paths that we can take after attaining tranquil abiding: the mundane path and the supramundane path. Through following the former, we can attain clairvoyance such as miracle powers, and rebirth in the god realms. Although these attainments are remarkable, they do not have much meaning when compared to the results of following the supramundane path of meditating on emptiness. This path leads to complete personal liberation and the full enlightenment of Buddhahood. If, for example, we have developed renunciation - the thought definitely to escape from samsara - and our mind of tranquil abiding meditates continuously on emptiness - lack of inherent existence - we will eventually attain the state of Foe Destroyer, or nirvana."


Now for my questions (if anyone would care to ponder them...):

1) Will the 'i am' meditation take me to level 9?

2) Is the state that is described after attaining level 9 the same as the Witness?

3) There is no mention of kundalini in the TCLOB book. It takes the view that the crown instigates the transformation to enlightenment. Why is that?

4) How can mantra repetition, unless it is one continuous never-ending iteration, be the same as concentrative meditation? The transformation seems to be from activating the crown which requires unbroken concentration. Isn't mantra repetition a series of broken streams of concentration?

5) What is the difference between activating the crown by tranquil abiding or 'just meditating on the crown' or 'using crystals to activate the crown'? (aside from cultivating discipline, detachment, a stable routine with self pacing etc)



TI


Reply author: selfonlypath
Replied on: May 18 2008 04:53:40 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
3) There is no mention of kundalini in the TCLOB book. It takes the view that the crown instigates the transformation to enlightenment. Why is that?


Hi TI,

Usually, Tibetan schools do not employ kundalini label which is more hindu. Nevertheless, you will find kundalini used in the amazing book "The Bliss of Inner Fire" by Lama Yeshe:
http://www.amazon.com/Bliss-Inner-F...p/086171136X
which has many common points with NKT since both schools comes from the same lineage (gelupa) but then split in a very violent way:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3577

Rather look for tigle or drops which are same as kundalini in the 5 main Tibetan schools but remember, these are just labels to describe the same experience whatever the system.

In Shakti, Albert


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: May 18 2008 4:41:01 PM
Message:

Hi TI

"Now for my questions (if anyone would care to ponder them...):

1) Will the 'i am' meditation take me to level 9?

2) Is the state that is described after attaining level 9 the same as the Witness?

3) There is no mention of kundalini in the TCLOB book. It takes the view that the crown instigates the transformation to enlightenment. Why is that?

4) How can mantra repetition, unless it is one continuous never-ending iteration, be the same as concentrative meditation? The transformation seems to be from activating the crown which requires unbroken concentration. Isn't mantra repetition a series of broken streams of concentration?

5) What is the difference between activating the crown by tranquil abiding or 'just meditating on the crown' or 'using crystals to activate the crown'? (aside from cultivating discipline, detachment, a stable routine with self pacing etc)"

I'll have a go at answering your questions:

1. Yes, Deep meditation can take you to level 9
2. No, the state described as being beyond level 9 sounds more like the descending kundalini, also called the descending paramatma light in yoga.
3. I think the winds entering the central channel stuff is synonymous with the rise of kundalini. The crown plays a seperate (and hopefully later) role in the enlightenment process as described in lesson 199.
4. Mantra meditation is the same as concentrative meditation because it establishes the mind in uninterupted silence. It is the silence that is ultimately key, not the mantra. The mantra is just a tool.
5. Not much.

Hope that helps,

Christi


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: May 19 2008 01:32:27 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by selfonlypath
Hi TI,

Usually, Tibetan schools do not employ kundalini label which is more hindu. Nevertheless, you will find kundalini used in the amazing book "The Bliss of Inner Fire" by Lama Yeshe:
http://www.amazon.com/Bliss-Inner-F...p/086171136X




Hi Albert
Thanks for that. Yes, the "Clear Light of Bliss" refers to the "Six Yogas of Naropa" four times. And then I find, in the first link you mention, this: "In tantric practice, we work with the energy of our own human body. This resource is composed of six factors: the four elements (earth, water, fire, and air), the channels of our subtle nervous system, and the blissful kundalini drops that exist within the channels."
Kundalini drops! This sheds some light on the idea that kundalini isn't just an electric jolt up the spine. It has now become a much larger phenomenon with many more combinations and methods of activation. I can see that any combination of entering the central channel through any of the doors/openings and melting drops can cause kundalini reactions. That is fascinating and explains a lot. You have given me food for thought.

TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: May 19 2008 02:22:07 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi

4. Mantra meditation is the same as concentrative meditation because it establishes the mind in uninterupted silence. It is the silence that is ultimately key, not the mantra. The mantra is just a tool.

Hope that helps,

Christi




Hi Christi
Thank you for your responses.
The thing that I've come to understand, or at least have been thinking about for most of the day, is the advantage of meditating on the indestructible drop in the heart aka (the very subtle mind).
It goes like this:

- There are different levels of the mind, ranging from gross to very subtle.

- As the minds and their winds dissolve into the central channel, they become inoperative. This is the reason why the CLOB states that movement of winds in the left and right channels causes mental disturbances (thoughts) and those disappear once the respective winds enter the central channel. So, to be silent, all winds have dissolved into the central channel.

- If one is using a gross mind to meditate with and it dissolves into the central channel, what happens then? Have we lost our platform? Or does a new platform appear that we can jump on to?

- If, on the other hand, we focus on the very subtle mind in the drop in the heart and can meditate from that point of origination, it never dissolves into the central channel (it is indestructable). It is the only rock which grants refuge from the quicksands of dissolving winds.

- So, it really makes me wonder why Yogani says that the 'i am' meditation's mantra should become fuzzy and less clear. Is it possible that the fuzzier the mantra becomes, we are climbing the ladder of the levels of mind, going from gross to subtler? Are we using the 'very subtle mind' of the heart drop when we just barely touch the mantra? If this is the case, then yes, the 'i am' meditation should get you there. I agree with you.

All this really makes me wonder. For example, a very powerful way of performing the 'i am' meditation for me is to pulse the mantra from my heart as repetitions of love. Does anything that comes from the heart come from the very subtle mind?


When I first started the 'i am' mantra meditation, I was subvocalizing the mantra (very gross) and my voice box was silently miming along.
After a while, I shut off the subvocalizing by trying to separate breathing from the mantra repetition. This required very much effort.
I found a quieter part of mind with which to repeat the mantra from and periodically could stay aloft without stooping back to subvocalization.
Taking the mantra to a higher frequency, that of light, I started to see the mantra as it was birthing in my mind. I entered the realm of visions; too many visions. I could see thoughts as electric pulses of color and even some thoughts that looked like white misty snake-like cables trying to find me.
Pulsing the mantra like waves of love to God from my heart is most powerful for me; not only for the return of God's love back but for the bliss it generates. And well, bliss melts kundalini drops!

Are these methods of performing the 'i am' meditation steps on the ladder of gross to subtle minds? Is the destination the very subtle mind of the heart?


Something to think about.

TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: May 25 2008 01:42:31 AM
Message:

Hi

Various

Bubbles
About a week ago, after a double meditation session (one deep silence and one on the heart), I had to urinate so I did. As the stream hit the water in the bowl, it produced bubbles. I watched the bubbles and suddenly they came alive! They were glistening, shining, shimmering, radiant, little rainbows; they were enthralling and held me spellbound! I loved them .. awe insipiring .. magical .. beautiful vivid sparkling bright colors .. they were alive!!! When the last drop hit the water, the final wave pulsed; it was so rhythmic and peaceful. The whole surface of the water glistened and shimmered. I would have never believed that something I've seen all of my life could all-of-a-sudden become so interesting and alive. I stood there for a few minutes just savoring the experience thinking that this is incredulous. In retrospect, I think I was feeling the whole episode from my heart instead of my senses; that's the only way I can explain it. What strange perceptions... and how do you tell someone what just happened?

True confessions
About three years ago, after an intimate love-making session with my "wife" (ex-wife now..) I had this horribly intense pain in the area of the perenium. I didn't know what to make of it. I could hardly sit down. The intense pain lasted for three weeks and then kind of moved to my coccyx. I couldn't sit very long and it was very painful to get out of the chair after sitting. Over the next year, sometimes the pain would go away for a while but would return towards the end of the day. I could sit for at most 40 minutes until finally I couldn't bear the pain any more and had to stand and walk around. As well, at the same time I started getting the runs (diarhea) for days at a stretch. Sometimes that would last a month and then go away. Sometimes two months.

The doctor told me that I had Irritable Bowel Syndrome. I had no idea what I had, but this is what started me meditating again in my life. That was three years ago.

Nowadays, I still have the runs. Since I've been practicing better posture, the pain in the tailbone area is almost gone. It comes back sometimes when I do things like the horse stance or sit in a slouched position. I was very surprised to read a number of posts on kundalini that the pain might be kundalini piercing the root chakra. I was equally surprised to read from other posts that IBS could also be a kundalini symptom.

As I reflect over the course of events during the last three years, I've come to realize that perhaps this is when my kundalini became active. I had no idea at the time.

Heart meditation
When I first tried the heart meditation on the indestructable drop in the heart as described in "The Clear Light of Bliss", I saw an area in my heart chakra that resembles some whitish straws twisted around each other. In the center of this 'knot' is a small round ball of white light surrounded by a ring of light blue. There is also a thin white chord projecting out from the heart knot to about 4 inches in front of my chest, and there is another light clump of white light at then end of that chord. I was somewhat confused about this until I realized that perhaps this other clump of white light was my astral self that had shrunken quite a bit.

In the Clear Light of Bliss, it says that the indestructible drop in the heart is white and reddish in color. As hard as I try to clearly perceive this, it does not appear reddish to me. It is blueish. It's center is white and the periphery is light blue.

So far, I haven't succeeded in tying my concentration to the indestructible drop for very long. I've come to realize that I have to consciously control my breathing in order to sustain an unbroken stream of concentration on the little blue ball of light in my heart. This has led me to wonder about the aspect of letting the breath go during 'i am' meditation. I've read several other books which say to co-ordinate mantra repetition with the breath, repeating the mantra on the in-breath and once again on the out-breath, with no pauses in between. One book states that the hole where extraneous thoughts gets into the mind is the pause between breathing. In order to produce a steady stream of attention, one shouldn't pause between breaths during meditation..


Kundalini Dancing
About 4 days ago, as I was sitting on the bathroom floor having (you guessed it) a smoke after meditating, a woman appeared to me in my 3'rd eye vision. Although I ignore visions during meditation now, I pay attention to the ones that just come out of nowhere when I'm doing something else.

Not knowing who or what this woman was, I bound it in the name of Jesus Christ, asked it to leave if it was not from the highest purest realms and prayed the blood of Jesus over it. (This is my protection routine). The woman remained. She was dancing.

She has long brown curly hair, blue eyes and white teeth. She wears a yellow top and a long blue-black skirt with white puffy fringes underneath that comes down to just above her knees. She has bare feet and shakes a tamboreen. Or rather, sometimes she has a tamboreen. Sometimes she lifts one leg and twirls around. She is very beautiful. She kind of hops when she dances and swings her feet around.

I asked her "Who are you?". She replied "I am Kundalini". I asked "Why are you dancing?" She replied "I am dancing for you". After saying that, she slowly spun in a circle and kept dancing. I asked her why she had no shoes. She said that she could wear shoes if I'd like. [a pair of black high heels appeared on her feet]. With the heels on, she did not dance with the same carefree pulsing rhythym as before. So, I asked to to take the shoes off. She did. Hmm.. I asked her to take off her clothes. She did. She had golden chains hanging from her breasts and around her torso, like a bikini. She said "I can look like anyone you'd like. I can be anyone.". At this point I was kind of amused and somewhat perplexed.

I opened my eyes and then closed them again. She was still there. Her skirt was back on and she had resumed the dance. For the rest of the night, whenever I closed my eyes, or peered into the 3'rd eye cave, she was there.

For the last four days in a row, she has always been there, dancing for me. I can see her, even with my eyes open, when I focus on her. The 3'rd eye cave that opened up a while ago now has a woman who calls herself Kundalini dancing in it! Sometimes she lifts both hands up into the sky and I feel tingles showering down on me. Most of the time she just keeps dancing. (sounds like a schizo tale, eh?)

Two nights ago she appeared to me in a dream. She and I were staying together in a retreat, enjoying each other's company, embracing and smiling at each other. When night came, we were shown to a bed in a large open room next to a large courtyard. We went to sleep. I woke in the middle of the night to discover that I was laying on the floor next to the bed. When I tried to get back into the bed with her, there were 9 other people with their beds next to ours, all lined up in a row, each in their own bed. Some of the people were women, some were old men and some were children.

She (Kundalini) asked me to return to the floor because there was only room enough for 10 people in the 10 beds. I remembered that sleeping on the floor was ok so I went back to sleep on the floor next to the bed. Then I woke up.

I identify the 10 beds as the 10 doors through which you can pierce the central channel. I was wondering why Kundalini, with her blue eyes, long brown hair and little white panties had appeared to me in a dream as my companion, in the 10'th bed. I know it is a sign. Perhaps there is some connection to the Kundalini woman and the "Dance of the Siddhars" song which I have been listening to recently?


Play of Consciousness - Muktananda
Finally this book came in yesterday. What a great book. I spent all of last night and this morning reading it. Finished it early today. I was spellbound and would be inclined to say that Muktananda is definately enlightened. I wish I would have read that book back in the 70's. I didn't know you can use the blue pearl for travel! Also, it mentions that anyone who touches the book automatically gets some kind of shaktipat. Is that why I feel dazed today?

Today, just to try something new, (I've been doing the 'i am' meditation twice a day for 7 months now) I decided to try Muktananda's meditation. This meditation is to mentally repeat "Om Namah Shivaya" (I am Shiva) on the in-breath and once again on the out breath with no pauses in between breaths. I also added sambhavi and the tongue on the epiglotis. After about two minutes of getting the rhythm going, a clump of white light appeared in my crown area and it stayed there throughout the duration of the meditation. The 30 minutes just flew by and before I knew it, the alarm went off. It felt like 5 minutes had passed. As I rested I noticed that I felt extremely good, like I had a current of something was permeateing my whole body. I also noticed that I had a peculiar sexual feeling like I was on the verge of getting turned on. These two sensations are still with me as I write this. I feel like I am in a daze or in a dream right now.

Bits and bytes
Here are some points of interest:
-Chi, prana or heat follows the out breath. If I breathe very slowly, gently out through my nose, wherever I focus my attention gets hot. If I don't focus my attention and breathe out very slowly, my face and hands get hot.

-I can pump up my aura by breathing in and then, on the out-breath, by imagining my aura getting bigger, stronger and whiter.

-I was in the restaurant and got something caught in my throat. I started coughing. By the last cough, I coughed so hard that I saw an outline of my body in red.

-The book "Your Hands Can Heal You" is full of detail and contains many procedures for channeling prana. However, it continually stresses the importance of cleansing the hands during healing, as in "spraying the hands with alcohol". This is because you use your own etheric body to pull out blockages and negative prana. On the other hand (pun intended), Mantak Chia's Cosmic Healing book sends rays of prana or chi through the target area and beyond it to carry the bad stuff away from both of you, hence there is no need for cleansing. Seems like a better way to go.

-I attempted to prana-laser out a small cyst in my right arm by projecting white-orange prana at it, using controlled breathing, root lock and kechari. I did this for two minutes. Then, I sent in blue-green prana to stablize and rebuild. In all I spent about 5 minutes on it. Immediately after doing this, I felt a lump in the right side of my throat! It felt like I had a ball in my throat or strep throat and it hurt when I swallowed. So, I 'brushed my throat area' with long white fingers and pulled out the blockage (and sent it burning into violet light). Five minutes later it was gone. It appears that there is some kind of connection between the cyst in my arm and my throat chakra. Isn't learning fun?


TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: May 26 2008 11:25:16 PM
Message:

Hi,
I appreciate having someone to talk to about all of this. Sometimes living alone has it's disadvantages...

Three days ago I changed my practice. Not much, but after spending 7 months on the 'i am' meditation I figured I would try something new. So, here is my practice now (twice a day or more):

-I now imagine that I am the Guru, Shiva, Buddha and I sit very straight in a almost-half-lotus.

-Five minutes Breath of Fire (Bhastrika, kapal bhati..) with hands held in prayer position. I believe this helps to balance faster.

-Five minutes of spinal breathing with a very gentle root lock, kechari (phase 2) and sambhavi to a breathing routine of 6-3-6-3.

-Thirty minutes of meditation (10 minutes rest afterwards):

What I am doing now is this: I've adopted the 'Om Namah Shivaya' mantra and I'm also coordinating my breathing; on the in-breath I mentally repeat the mantra and then on the out-breath I repeat it again. On the in-breath I gently breathe in through my nose, and on the out-breath I hiss a bit from the throat. My breaths are long and relaxed with very little or no pausing in between.

I know this is not the AYP style of meditation but I guess being a musician for so long has given me quite an inbred resolution to make things rhythmic and in sync. I'd like to know what the effects are of coordinating the breathing, since prana follows the breath, especially when you perform uyaji along with the out-breath. I think the throat chakra activates the breath and directs prana by using sound vibrations. I know Yogani says you can go deeper if you don't coordinate the breathing. If this doesn't do anything for me, I can always go back, right?
These are my experiences since I've changed the meditation:

- As soon as I start up the mantra I can see a clump of light. Today, the clump of light turned into a perfectly round disk of pale white light that sort of looks like a moon except the center has no differentiating features. It simply looks like a pale white disk with a very slight touch of yellow in it. I watched it throughout the whole meditation. I tried to see if it is located in my heart chakra or in the sahasrara (Crown). It seems to have no locality.

- My arms and parts of my right side developed this feeling of being frozen in a stationary position, like being held in a magnetic field.

- The fire ( a gentle little boyscout campire) slowly rose up to my heart chakra. It was a pleasant warm feeling with very small flames.

- The whole meditation just flew by (it seemed like it lasted 2 minutes).

- After the meditation was over, I felt like I was having some kind of continuous low grade orgasm or a sexual rush coming up the front channel from my genital region (no erection). Two hours later, this is still going on.

- I'm experiencing spordic waves of tingles from my heart chakra upwards; it seems to be triggered by the sensual updraft that is coming from my genital area.

- There is way less ringing in my left ear and more in the right. I also have a slight headache right in the center of my head. (nothing I can't handle).

- I can see that the pleasureable sensations that are arising could be very addictive. They are lasting longer and longer after meditation.

Now I'm looking forward more to "after the meditation is over" than the meditation itself.

That's it for now..

TI



Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: May 29 2008 10:57:45 PM
Message:

Hi,
Well, after 5 days of matching the breath with the mantra this is what I've discovered:

My tinnitus was nearly gone!!! It was still there, but so far into the background that I really had to listen for it. I also had some interesting experiences and wonderful persistent visions.

Yesterday, I went back to the deep silence style of meditation because I was starting to feel less insulated from events in the world. I went back to "not paying attention to the breath during meditation" and just letting it be. I still had visions, though. Today, I saw what resembles a blue planet or ball. I watched it for nearly 10 minutes. It looks like a blue water planet with white clouds on it. I'm wondering if this is the blue pearl that Muktananda talks about.. ??

Well, today my tinnitus is back with a vengeance.

Just what is going on here?

Is tinnitus a result of trying to voice mantras in the mind without adding the throat chakra?

What does that say about meditation techniques? Are you damaging your psyche or some synaptic pathways by breaking that connection during meditation, by not paying attention to the breath? Is that what is happening?

Or is it that deep silence meditation really get you deeper and this stimulates the pineal gland, which then causes the tinnitus (like I read somewhere)?

When you coordinate deep breathing with the mantra, it not only oxygenates your body, it draws in more prana and makes the apana function longer and more efficiently.

Many buddhist and other styles of meditation say to focus on your breathing. The "Clear Light of Bliss" says that when the breath is evenly matched through the left and right nostrils (equal flow) and when the inhale is exactly the same length as the exhale, the winds dissolve into the central channel. Is that relevant here?

Actually, I can remember having a hangover (haven't had a drink in 27 years now.. ) ) and having tinnitus. Is that tinnitus suggesting an imbalance in the chemistry of the brain?

What is going on here? After several months of having tinnitus and then not having it for four days, and then having it again, I find it really annoying and I'm convinced that it is directly linked to meditation breathing techniques. Can anyone else confirm this?

Thanks.

TI



Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: May 30 2008 11:20:03 PM
Message:

Hi,
The problem with personal history is that you have to keep changing it. -Don Juan



Today, I've had serious concerns about whether or not to incorporate watchful or controlled breathing into my meditations.

I was somewhat depressed about the issue, pondering the pros and cons of both techniques. I believe each has merits.

What I did enjoy about coordinating the breathing with the mantra are these phenomenon:
-The session went by very quickly, like being in a time warp
-It seemed easier to concentrate and hold the visions
-I found myself in a magnetic frozen type of state that I really enjoyed. (arms, right side)
-There was a definate after effect of sexual energy and feeling rising upwards after the meditation and this lasted for a while, longer and longer.
-Tinnitus nearly disappeared.
-During heart meditations, the only way I can keep a steady stream of awareness is to consciously control the breath. Also, during intense concentration, the breath naturally slows and suspends so I feel that this process is natural.


What I did not enjoy about coordinating the breathing with the mantra:
-Guilt about not blending in deep silence. However, many sources recommend a separate meditation on emptiness, which I will do.
-I wasn't sure if this was true meditation because it seemed to be a variation of spinal breathing.
-At one point during the meditation I started to get a pain up the left side of my neck. Reflecting on this afterwards, I think it was a definate clearing of some sort..

Anyway, I was dreading my second meditation of the day when I came accross this site http://lovebliss.eu/Myjourney.htm
As I read the journey, it quoted Muktananda and the mentioned the Blue Pearl (which I believe is what I am seeing now during meditation). Then, I read the section about Jan's method of meditation; it incorporates breathing and visualization. (this is an interesting account of the path to enlightment because although Jan activated the kundalini several times he still had to perform many tasks in order to take it further.)
Then, I opened a link to Shri Anandi Ma's website (from Jan's website) and found this about meditation and breathing:

quote:

Meditation and Breath


Meditation is the practice of turning the attention from outer awareness to inner concentration. In the practice of Kundalini Maha Yoga, meditation is much more than a relaxation technique. It is a way of easing resistance to the ascent of the Kundalini energy by quieting the fluctuations of the mind. Of all the forms of meditation, meditation through attention on the breath is the simplest and most direct way to Self-realization.

The aspirant can coordinate and integrate various energies of the nervous system by performing breathing exercises called pranayama in conjunction with meditation. Once this is accomplished, the student easily gains control over the life supporting vital air, the prana, which in turn leads to control over the mind. When the student gains complete control of the mind there is an experience of unique peace and joy. The student realizes the entire world is the creation of one God. When this happens on a large scale, the miseries of the world will end and there will be peace and happiness everywhere.



As I read this I started tingling and resonating with it. That is the sign I needed.

So, I've decided to go back to repeating the mantra while coordinating it with the breath.


TI



Reply author: emc
Replied on: May 31 2008 03:21:19 AM
Message:

Hi Tibetan_Ice,

I'm sorry I don't have anything to add to your questions. To me, with a research background, it would seem very difficult to be able to pinpoint exactly what in your practices is the causing factor X and what is the outcome factor Y. When we blend techniques from different systems, and are adding practices before evalutating each new step properly over long time (I'm speaking weeks and months, perhaps years), it's very, very difficult to tell what is what. The energies often has a certain "sleeping effect", thus the results doesn't show directly, but after a certain amount of time. It sounds like you don't give yourself enough time to find out before trying something new.

I reacted on this sentance: "It seemed easier to concentrate and hold the visions". In AYP we don't mind about the visions. There's no point in concentrating or holding them. Rather, the whole path is about practicing letting go...

Finally, I didn't understand the 6-3-6-3 thing in pranayama. What do you mean by those numbers?

I wish you well on your path, but I seriously think you might benefit greatly from a slow-down at the moment. What happens if you just drop your analyzing and testing and just settle in for one practice and keep it for a couple of months? If you want challenges, that might be the greatest one at the moment... The most important result will not be in what you experience during practices - it will be in what you experience in your daily life.

All the best,
emc


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: May 31 2008 6:02:37 PM
Message:

Hi emc!
Thank you for your concern. You are such a wonderful shakti! Awesome!

quote:
Originally posted by emc

I reacted on this sentance: "It seemed easier to concentrate and hold the visions". In AYP we don't mind about the visions. There's no point in concentrating or holding them. Rather, the whole path is about practicing letting go...



That sentence is referring to the practice of focusing single-pointedly on the little white-blue ball of light (called the indestructible drop) in my heart chakra.
According to "The Clear Light of Bliss", one's goal is to maintain undivided attention on the indestructible drop (or an object of meditation) for up to 1/2 hour, at which point the crown is supposed to kick in and shower down transforming energies. Once a practitioner has accomplished that, they then point their attention at 'emptiness'. The main requisite though, is the ability to concentrate. Concentrative meditation is a popular technique which is found in many teachings. I practice concentrative meditation on the heart drop.
Yes, it is not an AYP deep silence meditation technique. I believe that the AYP dsmt is 'recite the mantra once', then let go, then recite the mantra, then let go etc. So, in a sense, it is a broken stream of packets of concentration with "letting go" in between. And yes, Samyama is also great for 'letting go'. So yes, you are correct. However, when you keep adding things like mulabhanda, sambhavi, kechari etc to meditation, it is hard for me to believe that that is 'letting go'. I think that performing meditation with all the attachments is meant to re-wire your system so that when kundalini does kick in, the pathways are open. I think it is also the technique used to blend the rising of the ecstatic conductivity with deep silence.

quote:

Finally, I didn't understand the 6-3-6-3 thing in pranayama. What do you mean by those numbers?



You inhale for 6 seconds, hold for 3 seconds, exhale for 6 seconds and then hold that for 3 seconds, then repeat the cylce. What this routine does to me is it kicks in my lower chakras on the exhale-retention and they all tighten automatically, releasing tingles and energy from the perenium and the lower tan tien. It also heats me up and makes me sweat. (gentle heat, not heat up the spine).

quote:

I wish you well on your path, but I seriously think you might benefit greatly from a slow-down at the moment. What happens if you just drop your analyzing and testing and just settle in for one practice and keep it for a couple of months? If you want challenges, that might be the greatest one at the moment...



If I had to choose one practice, which would it be? I think that practice should be aligned to my goals and my goal is to become enlightened, or become one with God. I have to learn how to stand aside and "let God". This is my challenge (and probably everyone else's challenge too).
Lately, I'm conviced that the blue planet that I see is not the "Blue Pearl" that Muktananda talks about. I think the Blue Pearl is the indestructible drop at the center of the heart (because it looks like a blue pearl). What I'd really like to do is take the Blue Pearl for a ride. According to Muktananda, you can travel to distant places in it. According to "The Clear Light of Bliss" you can ride the indestructible drop up and down the sushumna, so who knows where else.


quote:

The most important result will not be in what you experience during practices - it will be in what you experience in your daily life.

All the best,
emc




Well said!
Today I have no tinnitus (ringing in the ears). It is there if I really listen for it, but for all practical purposes it is gone. I also don't have the runs today. Last night I did a 1 1/2 hour meditation session: 1/2 hour pranayama, 1/2 mantra repitition, 10 minutes heart meditation, 10 minutes full lotus and 10 minutes rest/reflection.

This morning, while I was sitting on my sheep skin rug in the bathroom, smoking, a being of light appeared to me. I did not bind it in the name of Jesus or question it. I felt like I didn't have to! It looks like an angel. I can feel it's purity, it's radiance. It has long wings of light. It is all white light and just shines. It is sending me great hoards of love! When I focus on it, I'm overwhelmed with love. I am showered upon with love, joy, tingles that envelope me. I have never felt so loved before. It makes me cry. I think I've been crying for 2 hours off and on today. It's so wonderful!!! I can't focus on it for too long at a time. It's so intense. I've been crying so much that I've developed a migraine of sorts. The back of head where it connects to my spine hurts pretty bad. The center of my head throbs up to the crown and there is a stabbing pain from my medula to my third eye. It is like the whole central third eye structure is being cleansed and purified. Intense purification of sorts..

So yes, experiences in my daily life are reflecting something wonderful. It's all good. Thank you for your correspondence. I appreciate it.

And yes, there is only one Source but it manifests in infinite ways.

Love and protection

TI



Reply author: VIL
Replied on: May 31 2008 7:59:26 PM
Message:

I enjoyed your experience TI, it sounds like a lot of positive things came from it.

Namaste:



VIL


Reply author: emc
Replied on: Jun 01 2008 3:16:24 PM
Message:

Ah, oki, I associated to AYP pranayama, so I didn't get the 6-3-6-3. Now I get that you're not following AYP at all, so it all gets clearer.

Thanks for clarifying the rest!


All the best, emc


Reply author: VIL
Replied on: Jun 01 2008 6:11:41 PM
Message:

I had an experience last night where I was awoken from a deep sleep and I felt a reverbational/vibration within the center of my chest. Now I'm accustomed to the regular vibrational kundalini, but this was different and felt just like a snake wriggling toward my throat, as if it was going to pop right out of my mouth!

It was kind of like when I was younger and would bend a metal saw to get the noise, vibrational, quality, but without the noise - but similar quality to it.

Anyway, so this snake like movement went right to my throat area and absorbed right into it toward the back of the throat, spinal area. It was a strange sensation and I later found out that the kunalini energy moved to the vishuddhi!

So, anyway, I wanted to share my experience with you, TI, since you are so generous to do this with what's going on with you.

And I also wanted to know how your head was feeling and is the throbbing still there?

Namaste:



VIL


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 02 2008 01:37:00 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by emc

Ah, oki, I associated to AYP pranayama, so I didn't get the 6-3-6-3. Now I get that you're not following AYP at all, so it all gets clearer.

Thanks for clarifying the rest!


All the best, emc



Hi emc
I wouldn't say that I'm not following AYP at all. I have been doing spinal breathing and deep silence meditation twice a day, every day for the last 7 months. I also do kechari and sambhavi, root lock and rest afterwards. I also self-pace. But I also do kunlun, Reiki, chi exercises and some Qi gong. I also do heart meditations and Sagan practices to build my 3'rd eye. Also, if I get too much heat in the head I will do the Micro Cosmic Orbit. The last meditation of the evening is free-form; I pray and then do whatever I feel like doing.

The hard part for me is that during deep silence meditation I don't believe I've ever hit deep silence. I mean, I hit parts where there is just black and no thoughts. Is that deep silence? I think we had a discussion about the black before a while ago..
Like today, I did 5 minutes of Bhastrika, 5 minutes of spinal breathing, 20 minutes of "Om Namah Shivaya" while matching the breathing, rested for 5 min and then did 30 minutes of AYP deep silence meditation. During the deep silence meditation, I tried to make the mantra quieter and quieter (fuzzy?). It starts out as subvocalization. Then it is mental thought. Then I can see the "i am" as it comes. As I try to take it to a deeper, quieter place, this white cone shaped thing appears with the letters 'i am' on the tip. It looks like a growing straw of white light and it has the 'i am' at the top of it. It travels away from me and just keeps going. Before too long, there is just black, this long white thread with the 'i am' at the head of it and silence. No thoughts, just that ultra quiet 'i am' 'i am' 'i am' flashing on the end of the white thread. Now I don't think that's deep silence, is it?

This is the thing that I'm very confused about: Most yoga practices are like taking a balloon and stretching it, hoping that kundalini will jump in. The stretching of the balloon is the asanas, pranayama, meditation, kechari etc. After learning about the Siddhars (Cave of the Siddhars), shaktipat, turiya and watching this on Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUtq...ture=related

it seems like the other method is to activate kundalini first and then the balloon stretches to accomodate it.

I would say in your case, the balloon is stretching because kundalini is already in it. You have been blessed. Now it is up to you to keep it up.

So why am I doing all of these practices? I don't know. I should go back to straight kundalini meditation and bring kundalini up again, instead of trying to stretch the balloon and hoping kundalini jumps in. That is what I've been asking myself. I've done two kundalini meditations in the past (Found at this link: http://www.crystalinks.com/kundalini.html ) which worked well. I've learned that I can light a fire up the spine just through concentrative meditation or focusing on the lights/suns that appear. I can also reach astral planes and experience new and wonderful phenonmenon and scenery.

Now today, I've read in "Kundalini Yoga for the West" by Swami Sivananda Radha (which I bought ten years ago) that the kundalini pranayama is to do a 3-12-3 breathing cycle and you focus on the root chakra while holding your breath for the 12. When I did this today, my crown opened up and streamed white liquid light down the sushumna to just above my root. This only took three rounds (under two minutes). I stopped there because I believe I've been influenced by fear (and I have to work tomorrow). Maybe I've read too many posts about premature kundalini awakening? Now I must overcome my fear.

Well, I've seen two videos on YouTube where crowds of Indians were given Shaktipat and many of them were going into spontaneous yoga movements (like you). Some of these people are children!!! Maybe Osho is right when he said that everyone in India has their kundalini active.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGpS...ture=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk7FC-VlHmo


Maybe I'm having a bad day. Maybe not. The tinnitus is back so that blows that theory

Love, Light and protection!!!!

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 02 2008 01:51:17 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by VIL

I had an experience last night where I was awoken from a deep sleep and I felt a reverbational/vibration within the center of my chest. Now I'm accustomed to the regular vibrational kundalini, but this was different and felt just like a snake wriggling toward my throat, as if it was going to pop right out of my mouth!

It was kind of like when I was younger and would bend a metal saw to get the noise, vibrational, quality, but without the noise - but similar quality to it.

Anyway, so this snake like movement went right to my throat area and absorbed right into it toward the back of the throat, spinal area. It was a strange sensation and I later found out that the kunalini energy moved to the vishuddhi!

So, anyway, I wanted to share my experience with you, TI, since you are so generous to do this with what's going on with you.

And I also wanted to know how your head was feeling and is the throbbing still there?

Namaste:



VIL



Hi VIL
It is cool to hear about your experience! Thank you for sharing too. With kundalini in your throat chakra you might find new power in voicing mantras or even speaking words. Pay careful attention to the spoken word for the next while.

Me? I think I've had a bad day. The tinnitus returned even though I was coordinating my breath yesterday and yes, the throbbing pain was still there today. Funny, it only hurt when I relaxed or really tensed. I ended up taking an aspirin and still did two 1 hour meditations today (and cut the lawn).

You'll have to let me know how kundalini gets along with your spoken words. Also, there is a knot in or above the neck chakra. I wonder if your kundalini will blow it away or gradually loosen it. Good luck!


Om Shanti

TI


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Jun 02 2008 12:31:14 PM
Message:

Hi TI,

quote:
“When I first tried the heart meditation on the indestructable drop in the heart as described in "The Clear Light of Bliss", I saw an area in my heart chakra that resembles some whitish straws twisted around each other. In the center of this 'knot' is a small round ball of white light surrounded by a ring of light blue. There is also a thin white chord projecting out from the heart knot to about 4 inches in front of my chest, and there is another light clump of white light at then end of that chord. I was somewhat confused about this until I realized that perhaps this other clump of white light was my astral self that had shrunken quite a bit.”


Interesting stuff! This sounds very much like something that Sri Aurobindo called the “psychic being”. He never gave a description of it but there is a book published by the Sri Aurobindo ashram called “The psychic being” and on the front cover is a picture of this as you describe it, a ball of white light made up of hundreds of straws. I have seen this thing myself, and I have seen it move (inside me) from the heart up to the third eye and descend back down again. Here are some very loose quotations of things that Sri Aurobindo said about it (it is a couple of years since I read anything by him so please forgive my loose quotes) :
“ The psychic being has two seats one in the heart and one in the head”
“When the psychic being comes to the fore and takes full control of the sadhana [spiritual practice] the way becomes much easier”
“A sadhak [spiritual practitioner] could enter samadhi every day for thirty years without ever coming upon the psychic being centred in the heart”

This brings to mind the line in the Bagavad Gita (again a very loose translation from memory):
“In the heart of every human is a being about the size of a mans thumb which is the jivatma [living soul]”

When I saw this thing it was flashing, and the speed of its flashing changed. There were only two speeds, fast and slow. The slow speed was the same as my heartbeat. The fast speed was a bit slower than a strobe light


quote:
“About 4 days ago, as I was sitting on the bathroom floor having (you guessed it) a smoke after meditating, a woman appeared to me in my 3'rd eye vision. Although I ignore visions during meditation now, I pay attention to the ones that just come out of nowhere when I'm doing something else.

Not knowing who or what this woman was, I bound it in the name of Jesus Christ, asked it to leave if it was not from the highest purest realms and prayed the blood of Jesus over it. (This is my protection routine). The woman remained. She was dancing.

She has long brown curly hair, blue eyes and white teeth. She wears a yellow top and a long blue-black skirt with white puffy fringes underneath that comes down to just above her knees. She has bare feet and shakes a tamboreen. Or rather, sometimes she has a tamboreen. Sometimes she lifts one leg and twirls around. She is very beautiful. She kind of hops when she dances and swings her feet around.

I asked her "Who are you?". She replied "I am Kundalini". I asked "Why are you dancing?" She replied "I am dancing for you". After saying that, she slowly spun in a circle and kept dancing. I asked her why she had no shoes. She said that she could wear shoes if I'd like. [a pair of black high heels appeared on her feet]. With the heels on, she did not dance with the same carefree pulsing rhythym as before. So, I asked to to take the shoes off. She did. Hmm.. I asked her to take off her clothes. She did. She had golden chains hanging from her breasts and around her torso, like a bikini. She said "I can look like anyone you'd like. I can be anyone.". At this point I was kind of amused and somewhat perplexed.

I opened my eyes and then closed them again. She was still there. Her skirt was back on and she had resumed the dance. For the rest of the night, whenever I closed my eyes, or peered into the 3'rd eye cave, she was there.”


All the advice in Yoga (and I suspect in Tibetan Buddhism also) is to ignore visions of this kind. It is difficult to say if this lady is malevolent or benevolent. After all, malevolent spirits usually appear to be beautiful and helpful, as they are often very clever, and if they appear to be ugly and harmful then they would not succeed in their task, which is simply to distract you from your path on the spiritual quest. The incantation you use as a protection spell is a good one, but it will be dependent for its effectiveness on the level of your spiritual will. There are many powerful beings in the astral realms that could easily survive such an incantation if the will accompanying it is not strong or pure enough. I tend to think that truly high and benevolent female beings from the heavenly realms who have our best interests at heart, generally speaking, don’t take all their kit off as soon as we ask them to. But then she did leave her chain mail underwear on so... who knows.
These beings can often appear to us in any form they choose, and they can easily read our minds, and so they can appear in a form that will draw us under their power if they are not of good intent. (Apparently) the higher you go on the path, the more of these beings will be drawn to you, and the harder they will try to draw the direction of your sadhana away from the truly Divine path.
The best way to test such beings is to ignore them. A being who is actually wanting to help you will stay around and help whenever needed, and one that does not serve your higher interests will get annoyed and go away to find some other prey. Those beings that have dark intentions survive by drawing your attention and energy. They feed on lust, craving, fear, anger and hatred. This is why ignoring such visions is the best way of proceeding over the long term. The good will stay, and the bad will leave. And the good will become more and more, everywhere about you.

Crossing the fourth dimension is hard as there are dangers everywhere and someone with a weak heart, or an unstable mind, could easily be swept away and lost to madness or worse. Mental institutions all over the world are filled with people who have entered these dimensions (the lower fourth especially) and have not survived. This is why it is so important to develop a strong sadhana in the first instance, and to follow the guidance of those who have gone before.

The good news is that these beings only exist in the fourth dimension, they do not exist at all in the fifth dimension, so if you are able to make the crossing safely then you will be safe. There everything is light and everything is so clear that you will have no doubts about the true nature of things and about the true intentions of beings.

quote:

This morning, while I was sitting on my sheep skin rug in the bathroom, smoking, a being of light appeared to me. I did not bind it in the name of Jesus or question it. I felt like I didn't have to! It looks like an angel. I can feel it's purity, it's radiance. It has long wings of light. It is all white light and just shines. It is sending me great hoards of love! When I focus on it, I'm overwhelmed with love. I am showered upon with love, joy, tingles that envelope me. I have never felt so loved before. It makes me cry. I think I've been crying for 2 hours off and on today. It's so wonderful!!! I can't focus on it for too long at a time. It's so intense. I've been crying so much that I've developed a migraine of sorts. The back of head where it connects to my spine hurts pretty bad. The center of my head throbs up to the crown and there is a stabbing pain from my medula to my third eye. It is like the whole central third eye structure is being cleansed and purified. Intense purification of sorts..



Now That is an angel.
I have been visited by such beings, and I also cry when they touch me. Beautiful aren't they. A few months ago my yoga teacher in India told me not to rely even on angels. He said they can be ficcle, like fairies. I was very surprised. He recommends only going to the high Devas for guidance and advice (higher than angels).


I must say, I do have to agree with emc when she said that you need to chop and change less, and give things more time to settle in.

Good luck!

Christi


Reply author: VIL
Replied on: Jun 02 2008 6:40:35 PM
Message:

quote:
Hi VIL
It is cool to hear about your experience! Thank you for sharing too. With kundalini in your throat chakra you might find new power in voicing mantras or even speaking words. Pay careful attention to the spoken word for the next while.

Me? I think I've had a bad day. The tinnitus returned even though I was coordinating my breath yesterday and yes, the throbbing pain was still there today. Funny, it only hurt when I relaxed or really tensed. I ended up taking an aspirin and still did two 1 hour meditations today (and cut the lawn).

You'll have to let me know how kundalini gets along with your spoken words. Also, there is a knot in or above the neck chakra. I wonder if your kundalini will blow it away or gradually loosen it. Good luck!


Om Shanti

TI


Thanks for the uplifting sentiment, TI, I have been more aware of my speech and will make sure to do this. Btw, is it my neck or yours? Siddhi?

Namaste:



VIL


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 03 2008 12:08:49 AM
Message:

Hi Christi
Thank you for the advice, insight and very interesting post! It is so nice to know someone else here has experiences with the higher realms and the beings that exist there.

quote:
Originally posted by Christi
All the advice in Yoga (and I suspect in Tibetan Buddhism also) is to ignore visions of this kind.


Here is an excerpt from the "To Abide in Awareness" from the Tibetan Buddhist Pocket Guide"
...
Within this wide open expanse of space,
Phenomenon appear like rainbows, utterly transparent.
Pure and impure realms, Buddhas and sentient beings
are seen, brilliant and distinct.
...

So this does acknowledge that there are realms and beings beyond the physical which would appear like visions. Later, it says:

...
To remain day and night in this state,
To enter this state easily - this is joy,
Emaho!
...

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but the visions are all part of the entertainment.


quote:
The incantation you use as a protection spell is a good one, but it will be dependent for its effectiveness on the level of your spiritual will. There are many powerful beings in the astral realms that could easily survive such an incantation if the will accompanying it is not strong or pure enough.


Long story there but Jesus has never let me down and I expect that he never will..

quote:

I tend to think that truly high and benevolent female beings from the heavenly realms who have our best interests at heart, generally speaking, don’t take all their kit off as soon as we ask them to. But then she did leave her chain mail underwear on so... who knows.



Isn't it true that the higher you go, the beings lose their gender?
I will keep this in mind.

quote:

These beings can often appear to us in any form they choose, and they can easily read our minds, and so they can appear in a form that will draw us under their power if they are not of good intent. (Apparently) the higher you go on the path, the more of these beings will be drawn to you, and the harder they will try to draw the direction of your sadhana away from the truly Divine path.


I have heard of this. Akin to temptations of..
I wonder where the 'imaginary consort' that is mentioned in "The Clear Light of Bliss" should come from. (This is an imaginary female that you practice raising the fire in the central channel with.)

quote:


The best way to test such beings is to ignore them. A being who is actually wanting to help you will stay around and help whenever needed, and one that does not serve your higher interests will get annoyed and go away to find some other prey. Those beings that have dark intentions survive by drawing your attention and energy. They feed on lust, craving, fear, anger and hatred. This is why ignoring such visions is the best way of proceeding over the long term.


Yes, either that, or don't harbour any feelings of "lust, craving, fear, anger and hatred". That's a harder one.

quote:


There everything is light and everything is so clear that you will have no doubts about the true nature of things and about the true intentions of beings.


Yes, it is funny how I felt deep down in my heart that the light being (angel) is high and pure.

quote:

Now That is an angel.
I have been visited by such beings, and I also cry when they touch me. Beautiful aren't they. A few months ago my yoga teacher in India told me not to rely even on angels. He said they can be ficcle, like fairies. I was very surprised. He recommends only going to the high Devas for guidance and advice (higher than angels).


Well, seeing as how it is my first experience with an angel we will have to see whether or not it is fickle. Have you ever seen a Deva? How would I know the difference between an angel and a Deva?

quote:

I must say, I do have to agree with emc when she said that you need to chop and change less, and give things more time to settle in.


Well I'm a pretty stubborn Taurus with my Mars in Aquarius, so I guess if enough people repeat that to me, eventually I might listen.
Seriously, thanks for the protective and cautionary intentions. (Isn't emc wonderful? At first I thought she was the light being visiting me..)


TI


Reply author: emc
Replied on: Jun 03 2008 01:25:42 AM
Message:

Tibetan, all labels and qualities you put on me or read into me is only qualities of yourself. I am nothing but your own mirror! So I'm glad you are discovering those wonderful parts of yourself. We often have a more difficult time seeing that in ourselves, so we'd rather put it on another - that's the work of projections! The good stuff is almost more troublesome than the bad stuff to acknowledge as our own...

PS: And that is also true of all the wonderful qualities you read into the higher beings and angels you encounter!!!!! I promise! It's your own qualities!


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 03 2008 10:06:09 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by VIL
Btw, is it my neck or yours? Siddhi?
Namaste:



VIL



Hi VIL
I'm a little confused by your remark. By a "knot in or above the neck" I was referring to the knots of the chakras which are supposedly universal, found in everyone. (I know it's hard to find concordance between teachings on this subject, so take it for what it is worth..) I can see a knot-like structure above my root chakra. I can also see the knot in my heart chakra. That's it. I can't see any others yet. I think they will appear when the time is right.

Here is a quote from "The Clear Light of Bliss":

"The right and left channels coil around the central channel at various places, thereby forming the so-called 'channel-knots'. The four places at which these knots occur are, in ascending order, the navel channel wheel, the heart channel wheel, the throat channel wheel, and the crown channel wheel. At each of these places, except at the heart level, there is a twofold knot formed by a single coil of the right channel and a single coil of the left. As the right and left channels ascend to these places, they coil around the central channel by crossing in front and then looping around it. They then continue upward to the level of the next knot. At the heart level, the same thing happens, except that here there is a sixfold knot formed by three overlapping loops of each of the flanking channels. "

Later it says "It is essential to loosen these knots if our Mahamudra practice is to be successful".

Again, later on it says ".. we imagine that the knots at the various channel wheels are loosened so that the central channel is not constricted in any of those points."

Channel wheels are chakras. The Central Channel is the Sushumna. The way I like to think about it is that love loosens the knot in the heart chakra (psychic heat does it too, so from the root lock)..

In other teachings, there are also 'knots'. For example, this is a Reiki Tummo excerpt which contains references to 'knots':

http://wer1family.wordpress.com/200...reiki-tummo/

or this link:

http://www.aryabhatt.com/occult/kun...chakras2.htm

"The Kundalini energy does not shoot up in a straight line, but at each stage of its unfolding unties the knots of different energies."


Here is another reference to 'classic' yoga knots:

http://kaalchakra0.tripod.com/id59.html

"Brahma Granthi:- is the first psychic knot.It is supposed to be the lowest knot covering the area of mooladhara & swadhisthana chakras.It is also known as perineal knot.

Vishnu Granthi:- is the second knot, which covers the area between manipura, anahata & vishuddhi chakras.It is also known as the navel knot.

Rudra Granthi:- is the third knot, covering the areas of Ajna & Sahasrara chakras.It is also known as forehead knot.These three knots prevent the free flow of prana along chakras & prevent the arising of kundalini."


Anyway, it is wonderful that kundalini is working on your throat. Please let us know what the effects are in a few days.

Om Shanti

TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 03 2008 10:27:07 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by emc
PS: And that is also true of all the wonderful qualities you read into the higher beings and angels you encounter!!!!! I promise! It's your own qualities!



Hi emc
Interesting idea. Sounds like a transference or projection (Freudian)?? I hope that sometime in the near future, the 'me' goes away and my heart can feel the true essence of reality's emptiness.

Anyway, I'm taking your advice and cutting back to basics. Today I did two straight AYP practices (2 min bhastrika, 8 minutes spinal breathing and 20 minutes of deep silence 'AYAM' meditation and 5 minutes rest).

(I believe AYAM stands for "GOD": http://www.davidgodman.org/rteach/fnofgod1.shtml so that's how I treat it)

I ignored all of the visions (I saw lots of people and also female naked bodies). I ignored it all. I did not play with making the mantra quieter. I did as you suggest, repeat the mantra and let go, repeat the mantra and let go. It is about letting go.

Well, I'm very glad I'm back. After the meditation sessions, I was very peaceful and felt ecstatic conductivity rising quite intensely. I was back in my "nothing bothers me" state, sort of like being drugged in a peaceful haze. Wonderful! I think matching the breathing during meditation was preventing me from reaching that deep state where all the magic happens. From now on I will keep the concentrative breath-controlled meditations for my other practice times. Thanks again..


TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 03 2008 10:41:50 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi
A few months ago my yoga teacher in India told me not to rely even on angels. He said they can be ficcle, like fairies. I was very surprised. He recommends only going to the high Devas for guidance and advice (higher than angels).



Hi Christi
I'm sure your yoga teacher is a fine person, but I feel like he was a little foggy or mistaken.
"The Essence of the Bhagavadgita" uses angels and devas interchangeably. It would seem that there is no difference. (It does say not to worship them, however.)

I also found "angels are called devas in the East" at this link:
http://www.peaceinunity.org/masters.html

This next link is confusing because it says that Devas are for nature and angels are for humans:
http://www.rialian.com/rnboyd/devas.htm

"Devas are what might best be referred to as "Angels for Nature", in terms of having functions of acting as nurturing helpers, guides, protectors, and supportive companions for all the creatures of Nature, animal, plant, and insect alike, rather in the same manner that Angels have concern for humanity. "

So really, who knows? It's kind of like 'chakras'. What you see is what you get.


TI


Reply author: emc
Replied on: Jun 04 2008 01:12:38 AM
Message:

Glad to hear, T_I. Less is very often more... And basics can be very exciting as well!

And about projections... That is on a shallow level a psychological phenomena, yes. On a deeper level it is Truth! We create the whole world with projections. All of existence is nothing else but projections of the mind - appearances. That's what we perceive. Constantly.

Byron Katie's The Work is therefore brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. It's four questions and a turnaround.

1) It asks the psyche: Is that thought really true? And from there you can go into your psychological thought patterns, question them and see how false many assumptions are. That's great.

2) It also asks the consciousness who's waking up: Can you really KNOW that's true?... Pointing to the fact that everything is illusion, and the soul has a deep longing for Truth, so it pokes the consciousness to remember it's origins all the time. That all knowledge in the world won't take you there... that you can't know about anything else than your direct experience. Every thought will present another bit of illusion to you, so why trust your thoughts?

3) Then The Work asks: "How do you feel when you believe that thought?" Often very bad... so it shows maya is suffering. Believing your thoughts is staying in suffering.

4) The last question is: "Who would you be without that thought?" On a psychological level the answer would be: A more balanced, harmonic person etc etc... On a deeper level the answer would be: The Witness, the stillness, the supreme consciousness... So that's a constant reminder to identify not with your thoughts, but with your True nature, but before that awareness, The work seems to only work with your mind on a shallow level...

5) Turn the thought around... If you are upset about a person being lazy, you would turn it around and see that you yourself is the lazy one projecting it on another, not seeing his or her true nature: Emptiness and Love. That lazy annoying person turns out to be your perfect mirror showing you Who you really Are! So s/he was helping you along the spiritual journey in a beautiful way by being so "darn lazy"! All labels we put on another or ourselves belong to maya and causes suffering, accusations, defensiveness etc etc... It's a playground of egos projecting distorted mind patterns all around and that is frankly our whole world as long as we are not in the Now and perceive from Direct experience.

The constant asking if it's true and then turning the thought around shows immediately that it was all just projections from the start. And you can do that discovery with EVERY thought you have.

So, talking about projections is not psychobabbling, as someone expressed it recently. It's about self-inquiry to find Truth and take away the veils from seeing Truth!


Reply author: Sparkle
Replied on: Jun 04 2008 02:58:53 AM
Message:

A very helpful description of "the work" emc, thanks.


Reply author: VIL
Replied on: Jun 04 2008 11:24:35 AM
Message:

quote:
Hi VIL
I'm a little confused by your remark. By a "knot in or above the neck" I was referring to the knots of the chakras which are supposedly universal, found in everyone. (I know it's hard to find concordance between teachings on this subject, so take it for what it is worth..) I can see a knot-like structure above my root chakra. I can also see the knot in my heart chakra. That's it. I can't see any others yet. I think they will appear when the time is right.


Hey, TI, they say that the throat chakra is also related to dreams and psychic perception, so I wasn't sure if your siddhi was able to see a knot within another person, due to your mentioning this within other posts. So I understand what you mean that you were stating this universally and are no longer referencing your personal experience.

quote:
Anyway, it is wonderful that kundalini is working on your throat. Please let us know what the effects are in a few days.

Om Shanti

TI


I'll let you know that it seems to be working. I had a dream the other night, since I was beating myself over not saying the right things at the right times even though it was flowing from the moment. So, anyway, I was contemplating this and couldn't figure it out, so I just decided not to figure it out and to send love and peace and abundance to universe.

Anyway, I actually did this when you posted you were lonely and wanted others to respond to your posts and I was going to do this, but instead I just did something that I never did before and sent out the word love to you over and over. The following day I sent out peace and harmony to the universe collectively.

So I went to sleep after this experience and I had a dream that I was sitting around a table with people and I looked up into the sky and a piece of dust got into my eye. And before I even had a chance to remove it, myself, this bird immediately flew down and sat itself on my cheek and stuck its beak into my eye. I thought it was going to poke my eye out, since I didn't understand what it was doing and was startled. So I put my hands around this bird, at first, and pushed it away, but it insisted that it was going to do its thing, and so I just trusted that it knew what it was doing and released my hands.

The bird immediately removed the dust from my eye, without me having to do a thing, and sat on my cheek and kept me company and I stroked its feathers. And then all of these other animals began to come out of nowhere and were rubbing against my legs, et al, and I was petting them. It was a great dream.

So what I got from this is that all of the animals are aspects of myself, one may be a siddhi, and the human being with the dust in its eye is also me, since I'm not perfect.

But if I'm pushing when I need to be just letting go of it, it'll be okay, like you said within your post and I agree.

So we're in the same boat in the sense that things will just unfold naturally and how they are intended to unfold, as long as I'm not pushing or pulling, but allowing the universe to just do its thing by allowing others this same courtesy. So this is where I'm currently at and will keep you posted.

I wanted to thank you for the quotes and links also.

Namaste:



VIL


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Jun 04 2008 11:50:36 AM
Message:

Hi TI,

quote:
Hi Christi
I'm sure your yoga teacher is a fine person, but I feel like he was a little foggy or mistaken.
"The Essence of the Bhagavadgita" uses angels and devas interchangeably. It would seem that there is no difference. (It does say not to worship them, however.)



You are right TI, there are loads of different beings of a kind of amazingly beautiful nature that are normally invisible, and they are all referred to in Sanskrit as "Devas". My Yoga teacher uses the English word "angel" for what we would call an angel, and the word "Devas" for what we would call "Gods". So he differentiates between beings with wings that look out for and often visit humans (angels) and those super high beings that just kind of hang out in the high heavens and are usually quite distant from happenings on earth. It is the former that he described as "fickle". He has daily meetings with these beings, so I trust him on this one. I should say that it has not been my own experience. On the few occasions that these beings have visited me, then have always been gracious and exemplary in their behaviour to put it mildly.

Hope that clears things up.

Christi


Reply author: emc
Replied on: Jun 04 2008 2:18:18 PM
Message:

I met a fairy for the first time some weeks ago - very beautiful also. She said they will hang out at my balcony for a while... I was sceptical and thought it might be only my mind making it up - as a response the most wonderful energy tingled down on me with a giggle...

Oh, and thanks Louis!


Reply author: Sparkle
Replied on: Jun 04 2008 6:54:23 PM
Message:

fwiw during our AYP group meditation tonight, which we have in a small convent chapel, I became aware of the whole church filled with light beings. It was quite extraordinary and beautiful.
Just thought I'd share - although I don't usually talk about these things, it was so strong and clear tonight, thought to make the exception


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 05 2008 12:24:40 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by emc

Byron Katie's The Work is therefore brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. It's four questions and a turnaround.
...
So, talking about projections is not psychobabbling, as someone expressed it recently. It's about self-inquiry to find Truth and take away the veils from seeing Truth!



Hi emc
That is very profound and interesting!
My feeble contribution would be based on something Samuel Sagan explains. He says that the mind's function is to grasp and by grasping an object or thought you are not perceiving the true object but an object that is distorted, categorized, condensed and oversimplified by the act of grasping. When the mind no longer grasps and you can instead feel the object of attention from the heart, then you have succeeded in knowing the true nature of the object. He then goes on to explain 'gazing' and how to perceive objects through the third eye instead of the eyes and how to connect the heart with the third eye to truly perceive the object..

Wow, so many interesting things to explore, so little time


TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 05 2008 12:38:14 AM
Message:

Hi VIL

quote:
Originally posted by VIL
Anyway, I actually did this when you posted you were lonely and wanted others to respond to your posts


I do not recall ever posting anything like that. I do remember having a voice in my head start to pray out loud and it started by saying "Although I am always alone..." Perhaps that is what your were referring to? No matter. Thank you for sending the love. You will receive much more in return.

quote:

The bird immediately removed the dust from my eye, without me having to do a thing, and sat on my cheek and kept me company and I stroked its feathers.


You know I've seen many visions of Jesus releasing white birds out into the world to help people. I've drawn lots of pictures of them too.

quote:

And then all of these other animals began to come out of nowhere and were rubbing against my legs, et al, and I was petting them. It was a great dream.


I've read in the "Opening the Dragon's Gate and in other Taoist books that when you cultivate your energies properly while sitting out in nature, small animals are attracted to you and will come and sit and watch you. Quite fascinating. You must be progressing wonderfully.


TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 05 2008 12:43:05 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Sparkle

fwiw during our AYP group meditation tonight, which we have in a small convent chapel, I became aware of the whole church filled with light beings. It was quite extraordinary and beautiful.
Just thought I'd share - although I don't usually talk about these things, it was so strong and clear tonight, thought to make the exception


Hi Sparkle
Thank you for sharing this info! It gives me goose bumps! Reminds me of the time (a long time ago) when I saw the Holy Ghost shooting light beams at people in a church and they ended up with wings of light on their heads. I'm always glad to hear that someone else can perceive light beings too! (you too emc )


TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 05 2008 01:06:31 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

[quote]Originally posted by Sparkle

fwiw during our AYP group meditation tonight, which we have in a small convent chapel, I became aware of the whole church filled with light beings. It was quite extraordinary and beautiful.
Just thought I'd share - although I don't usually talk about these things, it was so strong and clear tonight, thought to make the exception


Hi Sparkle
Thank you for sharing this info! It gives me goose bumps! Reminds me of the time (a long time ago) when I saw the Holy Ghost shooting light beams at people in a church and they ended up with wings of light on their heads. I'm always glad to hear that someone else can perceive light beings too!

emc
Love your fairy story!! I have met three faeries: Ishta, Phaedra and Pinky. This is so neat to hear about others' experiences. Makes me feel like I'm not crazy after all.

Christi
Thanks for clearing that up. I'm no expert when it comes to light beings and other mystical phenomenon. I must admit though, I feel a tiny little pain when I hear someone calling angels 'fickle'.


The story continues:
Today I've ordered "This House is on Fire" and am seriously contemplating getting shaktipat from Shri Anandi Ma. Can you believe that Shri Dhyanyogi lived to be 116 years old?


http://dyc.org/product_info.php?products_id=30

http://www.carysteiner.com/dhyanyogi/index.htm




TI


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Jun 07 2008 12:55:15 PM
Message:



Hi TI,

quote:
“I wonder where the 'imaginary consort' that is mentioned in "The Clear Light of Bliss" should come from. (This is an imaginary female that you practice raising the fire in the central channel with.)”

This is a being created out of your imagination, so it should be quite safe. I have been doing this practice for several years now.
As it is your own imagination, you feed it with power, and it will be as pure as your own heart is. No worries there!

quote:
“Yes, either that, or don't harbour any feelings of "lust, craving, fear, anger and hatred". That's a harder one.”


If you can do that, you are a better man than me.


quote:
”Yes, it is funny how I felt deep down in my heart that the light being (angel) is high and pure.”


Yes, some beings simply radiate love in a way that a demon could not mimick. You probably felt this too when you met Jesus.

quote:
“Well, seeing as how it is my first experience with an angel we will have to see whether or not it is fickle.”


Just to put this derogatory statement about angels into context, my teacher was talking about different systems of spiritual practice, and he was talking about why it was not a good idea to use a system based entirely on worshiping angels. He said that they were fickle like fairies and could not be counted on to be around whenever they were needed. He recomended kundalini meditation instead, incorporating the elements. He wasn’t just putting angels down with casual asides! I am sure he has the deepest respect for angels.

quote:
“Have you ever seen a Deva? How would I know the difference between an angel and a Deva? “


No I have never seen one of the Gods, only angels. From what I hear it is easy to tell the difference. Imagine that you are taken to a beautiful city made of light. The beings that fly next to you, escorting you are angels. You are taken to the palace. The being sitting on the throne, surrounded by angels, would be a Deva. These Devas have gender (male and female) as humans do, and I have heard that they don't have wings. Yes, there are beings higher still who have no gender. Very close to God, beings have forms which change many thousands of times a minute, and the sound made by their changing forms sounds like heavenly music.

quote:
Isn't emc wonderful? At first I thought she was the light being visiting me..


She certainly is, an inspiration to all of us.

Christi


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 07 2008 3:25:54 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi



“Yes, either that, or don't harbour any feelings of "lust, craving, fear, anger and hatred". That's a harder one.”

If you can do that, you are a better man than me.


Hi Christi
"You" and "Me" don't really exist, or so I'm contemplating on these days. Thus, if we don't exist, then how can one be better than the other? The 'I' is a hinderance, isn't it? Like the ego. We won't focus on it.. shhhh.. :)

I've often wondered how to transmute feelings of lust, craving, anger, etc. Last night I had a wonderful heart meditation. I did kechari, shambhavi and put my attention on my heart light. After a few minutes of focusing on the little white/blue ball in the heart, I started getting tingles. Lots of tingles. Went all over my body. I noticed that I could draw the tingles up from the light in my heart and shoot them out of my crown to all beings in the universe. I just kept pushing the love up and out. What a meditation! I nearly floated away! I'm tingling now again. Today, I seem to be in love with everyone and everything.
So, in keeping with the "how do you theme", perhaps the way to transmute tavasic feelings of anger, lust, hatred etc is to start the flow upwards from the heart and then draw them up into the stream of love and send them up through the crown? I will try that. I did read in the "Essence of the Bhagavad Gita" that kundalini can go up or down, infinitely up or infinitely down. The up one is the one you want to do.

quote:

Yes, some beings simply radiate love in a way that a demon could not mimick. You probably felt this too when you met Jesus.



Yes, I felt the love, but more so, I felt the power. Jesus is beyond doubt the most powerful being I have ever met. I felt like an insignificant pin-head of light compared to his immense power. I knew that he could create universes effortlessly if he wanted to. I was bewildered, amazed, humbled, shocked, awed, surprised, unworthy, loved, acknowledged, fullfilled, saved, reassured, aghast, happy, sad, overjoyed, ecstatic.. it is hard to describe everything that went through me at the time. It is a good thing I couldn't move because I'm sure I would have either melted down to a glob of jello or come apart at the seams and just scattered like dust. Meeting Jesus is/was the most profound experience that I've ever had in my entire life.
And it's fun telling people about my experience because every time I do, I get blessed with showers of tingles. Also, most people think you're crazy or on drugs or something, but I don't care what other people think. And when they finally meet Jesus too, boy will they be surprised!

Living on Love
TI







Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 09 2008 10:07:48 PM
Message:

Hi Everyone

I have to say; I'm a full lotus addict now. Tonight, I did full lotus during mantra meditation and a white sun appeared. It has long sea-urchin-like rays. I don't think it is the pineal gland because my pineal looks like a white strawberry; cone shaped and much smaller. The white sun is as clear as day and so pure and white.

That is with my left leg over my right.

When the pain was a little too much, I switched positions of the legs (right over left). Then, wow! I could see this planet or big round ball with blue on it and what looks like white clouds. This is the second time it appears to me. It looks like a planet but somehow I don't think it is the earth. I keep hoping it is Muktananda's Blue Pearl. Maybe it is. It's like watching TV, the visions are so strong, pronounced and so hard to ignore. Or maybe they aren't visions but some kind of astral sight or something. I mean, I see lots of visions that appear and then go away, (like naked female body parts, but those visions are kind of clear/transparent pictures and they go away if you don't pay attention to them). But the white sun and the blue planet have a different quality to them.


The other aspect of the full lotus is that it seems to speed up the low-grade orgasm rising up the front channel. Perhaps this is because the pain causes the root lock and lower abdomen to tighten. You really have to draw your attention upwards in order to overcome the distration and meditate.

And here is the funny thing: while doing sambhavi, if I scrunch my eyebrows lightly together more at the surface of the forehead, I get a tingle in the tip of the penis. (no erection, haha) So now I'm thinking that corresponding body parts are all sitting in the third eye area: smell at the top of sinus cavity connects to the root, one inch behind the forehead is connected to the testicles and directly on the surface of the forehead between the eyes is the tip of the penis.

Thought I'd share that with you.. If you decide to try the full lotus while meditating, please let me know how it goes.

TI


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Jun 10 2008 10:33:59 AM
Message:

Hi TI

quote:
Yes, I felt the love, but more so, I felt the power. Jesus is beyond doubt the most powerful being I have ever met. I felt like an insignificant pin-head of light compared to his immense power. I knew that he could create universes effortlessly if he wanted to. I was bewildered, amazed, humbled, shocked, awed, surprised, unworthy, loved, acknowledged, fullfilled, saved, reassured, aghast, happy, sad, overjoyed, ecstatic.. it is hard to describe everything that went through me at the time. It is a good thing I couldn't move because I'm sure I would have either melted down to a glob of jello or come apart at the seams and just scattered like dust. Meeting Jesus is/was the most profound experience that I've ever had in my entire life.
And it's fun telling people about my experience because every time I do, I get blessed with showers of tingles. Also, most people think you're crazy or on drugs or something, but I don't care what other people think. And when they finally meet Jesus too, boy will they be surprised!


I certainly don't think you are crazy. I ment Jesus myself once. I wrote an account of it somewhere in this forum about a year ago. I think I used most of the same descriptive words you used here!

Jesus is higher even than the Gods, as the Gods have to die one day and take a new birth, whereas Jesus is immortal, standing at the right hand of God.

Christi


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 12 2008 12:04:16 AM
Message:

Hi
The story continues...

A while ago I had a very short meditation where I sat on a chair using perfect posture, took one deep breath and noticed a very bright ball of light up above. I looked at the light and I was ungulfed in a large ball of flames. The flames were wider than my body and at least 3 feet tall. I started sweating and heating up very quickly so I shut it down.

I just received the book "This House Is On Fire" as told by Shri Anandi Ma, which is about the life of Shri Dhyanyogi, and I found this on page 3 when he received shaktipat from a new-found guru:

quote:

The next day, after bathing, Dhyanyogi-ji sat in front of Parmeshwardasji. Parmeshwardasji told Dhyanyogi-ji to close his eyes, and then held his hand over his new student's head.
"I felt like my body was on fire," Dhyanyogi-ji later wrote and I saw a wonderful and inexplicable light. After five minutes my Guru told me to open my eyes, but I didn't want to and I remained in that ecstatic condition for 25 minutes.



So now I'm thinking that my experience is/was the same, but without a guru, if that is possible. Next time, I will let the flames burn!

The guru is in me, but it's particularily dense and fearful!

TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 13 2008 12:29:50 AM
Message:

God speaks!
Tonight I have been blessed. I had been reading "This House Is On Fire" and there seemed to be a lot of emphasis on wanting to know God by the people in the book. This message combined with a fascination with concentrative meditation led me to resolve that I would try a meditation that was single-pointedly focussed on God.

I sat in easy posture, held my hands in prayer position and said "This meditation is for you God!".

There would be no distractions, no letting go, no paying attention to pleasureable senstions; this was going to be my sincerest effort to focus only on GOD. 110% effort!

I performed 2 minutes of Breath of Fire (bhastrika) and then 7 minutes of a variation of spinal breathing where I matched the breathing to a 4-4-4-4 cycle. By the end of it, probably due to the tenseness of my upcoming resolve to put all of my concentration on the meditation, I felt like I was going to suffocate and received lots of energy pulses from my lower chakras and the lower tan tien.

After relaxing a bit to 'catch my breath' I started my meditation.

Tool up: Kechari, sambhavi. That's it. Here we go.

AYAM. AYAM. AYAM.. I could see the letters. This one is for GOD. AYAM. AYAM.. Did you know that AYAM is MAYA spelled backwards? Hmmm. Now that is very interesting! AYAM. AYAM. AYAM.. FULL CONCENTRATION. NO DISTRACTING THOUGHTS. THIS IS FOR GOD!!! QUIET THE BREATH. SILENCE THE BREATH. FOCUS ON MANTRA AND LETTERS. NO TIME TO RELAX. FULL CONCENTRATION. NO LETTING GO.. NO SLEEPING AT THE WHEEL. AYAM.. AYAM... AYAM...

I seemed to be generating a lot of heat. I kept going. I was regretting that I still had my shirt on and that I did not empty my bladder before beginning. I kept going.

After about 17 minutes of this heavy duty concentrative effort, all of a sudden I could 'hear' the OM! I started to tingle, or rather, some tingles poured down on me. This surprised me. I thought about it for a while. Well of course, the OM is the word of God! It all makes sense. God was talking back!

I went back to the AYAM and sure enough, the OM 'sound' re-appeared and more tingles rained down. WOW! GOD really was answering back!!!!! I got very excited but tried to control it. I succeeded in going back to the AYAM three more times and noticed that even though what I thought was my full attention was focused on the AYAM, I could still 'hear' the OM.

After that, I kind of lost it. I mean, my attention wandered about, especially to my overloaded bladder, the wonderment of GOD's response to my meditation and the sound of my timer going off, so I ended the session. At that point I noticed that I had tears running down my face, which was strange because I didn't feel much emotion, just amazement and wonderment.

So now I sit here typing this up, wondering if there really is deep silence, because as far I can figure out, the OM must permeate everything.

I'm so amazed at what just happened.
-just had to tell someone.


TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 18 2008 10:46:52 PM
Message:

Hi,
It has occured to me that I have not succeeded in attaining deep silence or stillness. I've read a number of other descriptions of emptiness meditation, watched some explanations on Youtube videos, read all the deep silence posts here and I must admit: Sometimes I am rather thick.

So, today, I have gone back to becoming thoughtless during meditation.

I have been seeing a ball or sun of white light now for the last three or four days. It is in the inside of my head towards the top and it is very easy to see it. It is always there.

This morning's practice was very interesting. I could see the ball of light but this time, during Breath of Fire (bhastrika, kapal batti etc), my whole sushumna became illuminated too. That is, I could see the white sun at the top sitting on top of an umbrella-shaped object of bright white light. It was/is very easy to see. I didn't even go looking for it. So, during Spinal Breathing, I focused on it as one whole piece rather than moving the attention up and down. On the in-breath, I focused on making the light pulse upwards, and on the out-breath I focused on making the light pulse downwards. Lots of fun. Really.

The main point of stillness meditation is to silence the mind. That means no thoughts. What I've learned is that you have to stop the mind in order to get past it and see what is beyond. Otherwise, the mind can construct infinite phenomenon and forever keep you entertained and distracted. (this is what someone explained on a Youtube video) So I've changed my approach during meditation. I am hardly trying now, I 'remember' the "AYAM" mantra once and then observe and ignore any thoughts for a while. Then I repeat the mantra again and I ignore everything. Big holes in between. I've also eliminated the bhakti in it.

This meditation went very well. After only a few minutes I was seeing tons of visions, but clear light transparent visions (which I ignored). Funny, I'm still seeing seductive female body parts and I have to put in some effort to ignore these too..

By the end of the meditation, I felt I had made a major step towards becoming more silent. As I walked back to my desk, I felt like I was in a cloud and almost back to what might be the Witness. A few minutes later, I walked down to the cafeteria and was waiting for the elevator. The elevator came and was not completely flush with the main floor yet. As I watched the elevator floor line up, I had the sensation that the main floor was moving, not the elevator. It sort of felt like I was floating or standing on a ship on the ocean.

Later I was standing outside smoking and three women walked by me to enter the smoking area. I could feel their magnetic bodies or auras as they walked by me. I could also see a kind of mirage effect wrapped around their persons. I remember now what it feels like to be more silent; it translates into being less of me and more of everything else, which I enjoy tremendously.. Maybe I'm back on track now.


TI


Reply author: kadak
Replied on: Jun 23 2008 7:01:30 PM
Message:

Hi TI,

I'm the person who mentioned CL of Bliss on this forum last year.
Now, I think you would love Tantric Grounds and Paths : http://kadampa.org/en/books/tantric...ds-and-paths
because it contains information you don't seem to have, about the purification of the 10 winds, the meditation on the heart drop, the vajra-recitation etc... You will find answers to many of your questions in it.
And then you should read "Heart drops of dharmakaya" by Shardza Tashi Gyaltsen, because it will explain much about the visions you have, which seem to be thögal visions. Thögal is a four-step practice which leads to rainbow-body, there as stages of development of the visions.
If you put dzogchen together with the tantras, you will have a clear idea of the path.

For example you asked how the mantra is working. The mantra is melting with the winds and purify them (because the winds are the same nature as the mantra originally). If you know it, you can accelerate the process, by concentrating on the different winds with your mantra. And when the winds become pure, they dissolve more easily in the central channel, and you reach CL more easily.
But if you want to realize buddhahood, you have to reach meaning clear light (and not only example clear light), which is very very difficult. But KG says it is the only way to clean the veils to omniscience.
So the only question remaining is : how to realize it ?
1)There is a first possibility with a true dakini (a real one, or in a pure land).
2)Crucifixion (illness and suffering) seems to be the christian way.
3) In hindouism, it seems that the master can do it for you.
4) There is possibly another solution with thögal practice.

regards


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 24 2008 5:16:28 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by kadak

Hi TI,

I'm the person who mentioned CL of Bliss on this forum last year.
Now, I think you would love Tantric Grounds and Paths : http://kadampa.org/en/books/tantric...ds-and-paths
because it contains information you don't seem to have, about the purification of the 10 winds, the meditation on the heart drop, the vajra-recitation etc... You will find answers to many of your questions in it.
And then you should read "Heart drops of dharmakaya" by Shardza Tashi Gyaltsen, because it will explain much about the visions you have, which seem to be thögal visions. Thögal is a four-step practice which leads to rainbow-body, there as stages of development of the visions.
If you put dzogchen together with the tantras, you will have a clear idea of the path.

For example you asked how the mantra is working. The mantra is melting with the winds and purify them (because the winds are the same nature as the mantra originally). If you know it, you can accelerate the process, by concentrating on the different winds with your mantra. And when the winds become pure, they dissolve more easily in the central channel, and you reach CL more easily.
But if you want to realize buddhahood, you have to reach meaning clear light (and not only example clear light), which is very very difficult. But KG says it is the only way to clean the veils to omniscience.
So the only question remaining is : how to realize it ?
1)There is a first possibility with a true dakini (a real one, or in a pure land).
2)Crucifixion (illness and suffering) seems to be the christian way.
3) In hindouism, it seems that the master can do it for you.
4) There is possibly another solution with thögal practice.

regards




Hi kadak
Thank you for your response and the information. I will check the books out.
I am very curious about the visions. It seems like sometimes during pranayama and meditation too, when the breath is linked to the mantra it produces very clear visions of things. I look forward to learning about the "thögal visions". Recently, I've come to think of the visions as some strange phenomenon maybe linked to dreaming that occurs when the brain reaches a certain level of inactivity like when we fall asleep, and as such have no spiritual development significance. I think that this comes more from the frustration of not knowing what the visions are and what significance they might have.

It makes sense to me, what you say about "concentrating on the different winds with your mantra" causing the winds to dissolve more easily in the central channel. That is the connection between breath and attention that I'd like to know more about. I know the winds are more than just breath, though.

Have you hit clear light? I know this is rather presumptuous of me but, there is a state of awareness where everything appears transparent, yet there is form and color. If I had to explain where it is I would say it is 'in between' trying too hard and 'not trying hard enough'. It is like looking at a hologram with object/people in it and it seems infinite. Do you think that might be example clear light? It is very hard to know what is happening or what I am doing when there is nobody to point out what things are supposed to look like. I try so many things and have so many different experiences that I'm like a kid in a candy store.

Lately, I've been seeing this little blue dot appear and then disappear just as quickly. It moves very fast and does not stay long. I've noticed it now during my meditations for the last three days. It will appear maybe 2 or three times and then I don't see it again until the next meditation.

I have to quit typing this. For some reason my hands and head are becoming very hot.

I was going to ask you, kadak, how are you making out with your practices? I seem to recall reading that you were going to try the AYP practices for a while because you were having fun trying to find the exact loactions of the chakras. How is that going?


TI





Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 24 2008 6:50:27 PM
Message:

Hi
This is where I am at today.

I've learned that my testicles and my brow are connected, and that when one relaxes, so does the other. By relaxing both, my arms, front of the body, testicles, legs and especially the lower abdomen and really release the breath and just let go, I become a cloud of vibrations. My breathing relaxes to the point where it performs very short light inhalations almost like I wasn't breathing at all. If I keep this state going, I become very hot and feel like I'm about to orgasm and float away.

I have a stream of ecstatic conductivity rising up from my genital region for most of the day now. It is lasting longer and longer after practices. It feels like I am on the verge of orgasm or something similar.

If I pretend to be falling asleep, relax my brow and testicles and press back into my brow like I'm going to fall asleep, I see tons of visions, not still pictures, but visions in motion like I'm watching other planes or tv channels. I can hit this state in under 4 seconds now.

I received the DhyanYogi - Anandi Ma Shaktipat kit yesterday. I've read it all twice and listened to the Mantrochat CD. Maybe that is why my head and hands are really hot today? Haven't done the shaktipat yet. I'm preparing. Going to take a while.

I also tried their meditation instead of the 'AYAM' meditation. Their meditation consists of mentally chanting OM on the in-breath and then counting on the out-breath. So you go OM-in 1-out OM-in 2-out etc. What I found intriguing about this style of meditation is that the OM uses the right brain (singing) and the counting uses the left brain (sequential-logic). Today (to re-visit and old topic of mine), I have no ringing in my left ear again. Very nice. So now I'm wondering if the ringing in the left ear is related to the left brain's lack of something to do while meditating. We'll see.


TI


Reply author: kadak
Replied on: Jun 24 2008 7:47:53 PM
Message:

Hi TI

quote:

I am very curious about the visions. It seems like sometimes during pranayama and meditation too, when the breath is linked to the mantra it produces very clear visions of things. I look forward to learning about the "thögal visions". Recently, I've come to think of the visions as some strange phenomenon maybe linked to dreaming that occurs when the brain reaches a certain level of inactivity like when we fall asleep, and as such have no spiritual development significance. I think that this comes more from the frustration of not knowing what the visions are and what significance they might have.


There are different kind of visions. The lowest are visions like dreams. After there are clarity visions, more precise and clear. And then thögal visions.
It may be difficult to make the difference between clarity visions and thogal visions because they can be rather similar. The point is that you cannot influence thogal visions, but you can influence the other ones. Another point is that thogal visions appear clearly in the sky. And you see what is called "tigles". They are not the same as tantric tigles (which are the drops). The tigles of dzogchen are disks of light. First they have 1 color and are very small, and later they have 5 colors (the colors of the 5 elements) and become bigger. There are many different kind of thogal visions. They come from the heart, go up by the kati-channels (or cristal channels), and are projected in front of you by the eyes. But they are not seen by the visual consciousness, they are clear by themselves (seen by your own rigpa).
In fact I would be very interested to know what you see in the sky, because the development of these visions indicate the level of your integration of rigpa.

quote:

Have you hit clear light?

I think I've hit CL of dream a few times. Depending on the chakra the winds dissolve in, there are different clear lights. CL of the waking state (navel), CL of dream (throat), CL of deep sleep (heart).

quote:
I know this is rather presumptuous of me but, there is a state of awareness where everything appears transparent, yet there is form and color. If I had to explain where it is I would say it is 'in between' trying too hard and 'not trying hard enough'. It is like looking at a hologram with object/people in it and it seems infinite. Do you think that might be example clear light?


It means you may have experienced it juste before. A friend described the same thing after having experimented CL of the waking state. But you have to consider (until you've reached buddhahood...) that all CL are devoid of phenomena. As the winds dissolve, the perceptions disappear. You cannot see, hear, etc... the deeper it is, the more you seem like a dead. And when you reach the meaning CL, then you're really dead, but you come back. If you re-read TCLOB, you will find clear explanations about CL. You have to see 7 signs to be sure this is it. And then you have to go deeper and deeper because the signs are not enough.
Anyway, what you describe is a state of clarity. It is said for example that in the 2nd vision of thogal, you can see through walls (if seems you've already seen through a restaurant table), and in the 3rd vision, you can walk through walls, because you have purified the elements winds.
quote:

It is very hard to know what is happening or what I am doing when there is nobody to point out what things are supposed to look like. I try so many things and have so many different experiences that I'm like a kid in a candy store.

First you will have to search for the 7 signs, or you will never know where you are.


quote:
Lately, I've been seeing this little blue dot appear and then disappear just as quickly. It moves very fast and does not stay long. I've noticed it now during my meditations for the last three days. It will appear maybe 2 or three times and then I don't see it again until the next meditation.

I know you think it may be the blue pearl, but did you see the 3 lights before ? If I remember well, the blue pearl appeared to Muktananda after having seen the 3 lights. I think these 3 lights are the 3 subtle signs before CL, so the blue pearl came out of the CL.
Maybe you are there, but as there are many levels of example CL, the clarity of the signs will tell you where you are.
And here I have a question : are you able to reach conscious deep sleep ?

quote:
I have to quit typing this. For some reason my hands and head are becoming very hot.

That's normal, Kundalini becomes more active when you speak about dharma

quote:
I was going to ask you, kadak, how are you making out with your practices? I seem to recall reading that you were going to try the AYP practices for a while because you were having fun trying to find the exact loactions of the chakras. How is that going?


In fact it was something I wanted to tell you. The chakras are at the center of the body,if you look well. What are in the spine are the trigger points. But, eh, your blue heart drop, it is at the center, no ? So the central channel is at the center, but in fact it is not really physical, it is where God is... I've located all the chakras at the center, but yoga teachers tell to search them in the back because the trigger points are easier to find. But once you've located the chakras, it's more effective to concentrate on them. But you cannot concentrate physically, that's the difference with the trigger points. You can concentrate physically on the trigger points, but to concentrate directly on the chakra, you have to concentrate on God-in-the-navel, or God-in-the-heart etc... Each chakra is an expression of God. And the kundalini is the activity of the winds and drops in the central channel.
Anyway I didn't stick to the AYP practices because I have already much to do. Now my main practice is the purification of the different winds with the mantra and other techniques, and I recently understood what they say in the teachings : that the phenomenal world is our winds. For example the wall you see before you is a part of your earth-wind. If you purify it, you can walk through it. It is as simple as that. Only problem : purifying the winds is very difficult.

regards


Reply author: selfonlypath
Replied on: Jun 24 2008 11:56:24 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by kadak
I'm the person who mentioned CL of Bliss on this forum last year.
Now, I think you would love Tantric Grounds and Paths : http://kadampa.org/en/books/tantric...ds-and-paths
because it contains information you don't seem to have, about the purification of the 10 winds, the meditation on the heart drop, the vajra-recitation etc... You will find answers to many of your questions in it.


Hi Kadak,

Have you read the other book "Guide to Dakini Land" written by Kelsang Gyatso and if yes, do you think it provides more or less info than "Tantric Grounds and Paths" you just mentionned ?

In Shakti, Albert


Reply author: kadak
Replied on: Jun 25 2008 06:25:48 AM
Message:

Hi

no, I didn't read it. In fact there are other books in this collection which I should read.

regards


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 25 2008 6:16:16 PM
Message:

Hi kadak

quote:
Originally posted by kadak

In fact I would be very interested to know what you see in the sky, because the development of these visions indicate the level of your integration of rigpa.



Ok. What I see in the sky?
When I tried the "OM Namah Shivaya" meditation I was extending my breathing long enough to repeat the mantra once on the in-breath and once on the out-breath (no pauses in between). After about 3 minutes of doing this, a clump of white radiant light appeared and moved into focus. It grew until I could see a full round sun, with what looks like sea urchin tentacles of rays emanating forth. The sun stayed for the rest of the 1/2 hour meditation.

Another time I saw what looked to be the earth. There were bright blue areas and white patches that resembled clouds. I could see the whole circle and just space (or sky) around it. I watched it for over 10 minutes, in awe. It was very clear.

Another time a pale yellow disk appeared. There were no features on the inside of it. It did not look rounded like the sun and the earth, just a flat pale yellow disk.

Another time I saw what really looked like the moon. It was pale white, looked rounded (I could see the whole ball and the darkness around it). The moon had features on the surface that resembled very slight blueish craters or valleys. It was beautiful to see.

The bright white light in my head is still there today but it is not rounded, it looks like a clump again. It did come closer and got bigger and more rounded during this morning's meditation but it went back to being a clump later on. This light is very bright white.

quote:


It is said for example that in the 2nd vision of thogal, you can see through walls (if seems you've already seen through a restaurant table),


Yes, the restaurant table. And the mail box too.. Hmmm.

quote:

and in the 3rd vision, you can walk through walls, because you have purified the elements winds.



I'm starting to believe stuff like that, especially after seeing that reality looks like a loosely bound soup that you could swim through.

quote:

And here I have a question : are you able to reach conscious deep sleep ?


You know, funny you asked. I had a strange experience last night when I went to bed. I was lying in bed and some visions started coming so I watched one for a while. I was awake, just sort of being entertained with my eyes closed. Then, all of a sudden, this loud bell rang out. It sounded more like someone hit one of those large crystal bowls. However, right after the bell sounded, something went pop and I felt like I dropped down a few feet. The whole scene changed into a darker scene that looked like the inside of a grungy garage and there was a person in it pushing a motocross bike in it. I was not asleep. It was like the bell sound had changed the channel on the tv.

But Yes, I believe I reach conscious deep sleep when I open the hole in my third eye through relaxation, kechari, suck into my third eye and pretend to fall asleep and just let go. Doing this used to cause a lot of pain to the back of the top of the neck where it connects to the skull, but the pain isn't so bad anymore. It is also extremely disorienting and you lose touch with your body and surroundings. When I just do this, the lights/suns/planets etc appear quickly..


quote:

For example the wall you see before you is a part of your earth-wind. If you purify it, you can walk through it. It is as simple as that. Only problem : purifying the winds is very difficult.



Kadak, how do you purify the earth-wind?


TI


Reply author: brushjw
Replied on: Jun 25 2008 7:45:27 PM
Message:

from the Tantric Grounds and Paths web site (http://kadampa.org/en/books/tantric...ds-and-paths):

"For those who are attracted to profound Dharma, Buddha taught the third vehicle, the Vajrayana. The Vajrayana, or Secret Mantra Vehicle, is sometimes called the ‘Attachment Vehicle’ because, instead of trying to abandon attachment immediately, practitioners of this vehicle use attachment as an aid to generating spontaneous great bliss, with which they then meditate on emptiness."

Emptiness (inner silence) + bliss? Sounds like AYP to me, except Yogani works on both at the same time. Yogani's balanced approach makes sense to me.

Thanks for all your posts, TI and kadak. It's going to take me a while to digest this thread. It's so wonderful to read that others have gone through this before me!

namaste,
Joe


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 25 2008 11:53:53 PM
Message:

Hi Everyone,
I found this on the internet last night (when I was trying to find the "Light On Meditation" book by Dhyanyogi on Google). It explains the lights, planets and suns as phenomenon that appear when you are semi-conscious and between two planes. It also explains why the lights are quick to appear when I am in full lotus (stationary asana). It also says that slowing the breath down is very important. I figure that by elongating the breath by fitting it into the mantra, I produced the semi-conscious state that is described here. Now I feel better

Here is the link:
http://www.indiadivine.org/hinduism...-Meditation/

Here is the quote:

quote:

Visions of Lights in Meditation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Swami Sivananda

Various kinds of lights manifest during meditation owing to concentration. In the beginning, a bright, white light, the size of a pin's point will appear in the forehead in Trikuti which corresponds tentatively to the Ajna Chakra of the astral body. When the eyes are closed, you will notice different colored lights such as white, yellow, red, smoky, blue, green, mixed color, flashes like lightning, like fire, burning charcoal, fire-flies, the moon, the sun and stars.

These lights appear in the mental space, Chidakasha. These are all Tanmatric lights. Each Tanmatra has its own specific color. Prithvi (earth) Tanmatra has a yellow light; Apas (water) Tanmatra has a white light; Agni (fire) Tanmatra has a red light; Vayu (air) Tanmatra has a smoky light; and Akasha (ether) Tanmatra has a blue light. Yellow and white lights are very commonly seen. Red and blue lights are rarely noticeable. Frequently there is a combination of white and yellow lights. In the beginning, small balls of white light float about before your eyes. When you first observe this, be assured that the mind is be coming more steady and that you are progressing in concentration.

After some months the size of the light will increase and you will see a full blaze of white light, bigger than the sun. In the beginning these lights are not steady. They come and disappear immediately. They flash out from above the forehead and from the sides. They cause peculiar sensations of extreme joy and happiness and there is an intense desire for a vision of these lights. When you have steady and systematic practice for two or three hours of meditation at a stretch, these lights appear more frequently and remain steadily for a long time. The vision of the lights is a great encouragement in Sadhana. It impels you to stick steadily to meditation. It gives you strong faith in superphysical matters. The appearance of the light denotes that you are transcending the physical consciousness. You are in a semiconscious state when the light appears. You are between the two planes. You must not shake the body when these lights manifest. You must be perfectly steady in the Asana. You must breathe very, very slowly.

One whose food is moderate, whose anger has been controlled, who has given up all love for society, who has subdued his passions, who has overcome all pairs of opposites (Dvandvas) and who has given up his egoism, gets a vision of a triangular light during meditation.

Sometimes during meditation you will see a brilliant dazzling light. You will find it difficult to gaze at this light. You will be compelled to withdraw your mental vision of this light. This dazzling light is the light emanating from the Sushumna.

You will see forms in the lights - either the lustrous forms of demigods (Devatas) or physical forms. You will se your Ishta Devata or chosen deity in handsome dress with four hands and weapons. Siddhas, Rishis and other Devatas appear before you to encourage you. You will find a huge collection of Devatas and celestial ladies (Apsaras) with various musical instruments in their hands. You will also see beautiful flower gardens, fine palatial buildings, rivers, mountains, golden temples, sceneries so lovely and picturesque as cannot be adequately described.

The experiences vary with different individuals. What one man experiences, may not be experienced by another man. Many erroneously believe that they have realized the self when they get these experiences, stop their Sadhana and try to move in the society to preach a new cult and religion in the name of Loka-sangraha. This is a serious blunder. This is not realization at all. These are simple encouragements from your Ishta Devata to convince you of a higher spiritual life and push you on in your steady, systematic and incessant practice of meditation with zeal and enthusiasm. You will have to ignore these things and drive them away. You must not care a bit for the vision of lights. You must fix your attention on the Lakshya, the goal, viz., Brahman. These visions appear in some persons within a few days, while in others within six or nine months. It depends upon the state of the mind and degree of concentration.




Reply author: darrylc
Replied on: Jun 26 2008 01:50:51 AM
Message:

quote:

Emptiness (inner silence) + bliss? Sounds like AYP to me, except Yogani works on both at the same time. Yogani's balanced approach makes sense to me.



"Emptiness" is a huge topic in Tibetan budhism and very profound. It also goes by the term "Wisdom of emptiness" or just "Wisdom".

It refers to the fact that everything we interact with is 'empty' of inherent existence, that objects do not exist as thay appear to us. They are created by causes, conditions (ie: karma) and labeling of the mind. It takes a lot of analytical meditation to become familiar with the topic and a couple of sentences do not do it justice

The Tibetan theory is that you merge method and wisdom as a way to reach enlightenment. The method is a "calm abiding" meditative state sort of like deep meditation(samadi) of ayp, a side effect of this state is a blissful feeling.

Although the experiences are great and it is hard not to get excited about them, they are still after all just scenary on the road Stick to the practices and progress will be faster.

kind regards
darryl


Reply author: kadak
Replied on: Jun 26 2008 07:10:54 AM
Message:

quote:

Ok. What I see in the sky?
When I tried the "OM Namah Shivaya" meditation I was extending my breathing long enough to repeat the mantra once on the in-breath and once on the out-breath (no pauses in between). After about 3 minutes of doing this, a clump of white radiant light appeared and moved into focus. It grew until I could see a full round sun, with what looks like sea urchin tentacles of rays emanating forth. The sun stayed for the rest of the 1/2 hour meditation.

Another time I saw what looked to be the earth. There were bright blue areas and white patches that resembled clouds. I could see the whole circle and just space (or sky) around it. I watched it for over 10 minutes, in awe. It was very clear.

Another time a pale yellow disk appeared. There were no features on the inside of it. It did not look rounded like the sun and the earth, just a flat pale yellow disk.

Another time I saw what really looked like the moon. It was pale white, looked rounded (I could see the whole ball and the darkness around it). The moon had features on the surface that resembled very slight blueish craters or valleys. It was beautiful to see.

The bright white light in my head is still there today but it is not rounded, it looks like a clump again. It did come closer and got bigger and more rounded during this morning's meditation but it went back to being a clump later on. This light is very bright white.

I can't tell if all these visions have the same nature, but it seems there are thögal visions among them. Anyway, when you read the book, you will be able to have your own idea. And remember that the crucial point is that you can't influence thögal visions.
The Sivananda quote is interesting. He's apparently melting different kind of visoins (that's why the topic is difficult...) In his descriptions, some elements (like smoke or sparkles) are signs of winds dissolving in the central channel, as other (deities, gardens, palaces) seems to be thögal visions.


quote:

But Yes, I believe I reach conscious deep sleep when I open the hole in my third eye through relaxation, kechari, suck into my third eye and pretend to fall asleep and just let go. Doing this used to cause a lot of pain to the back of the top of the neck where it connects to the skull, but the pain isn't so bad anymore. It is also extremely disorienting and you lose touch with your body and surroundings. When I just do this, the lights/suns/planets etc appear quickly..


In fact there are different kind of sleeps.
1) There is conscious dream - I can do it either, there is a strange sound in the ears, some vibrations, and then, I'm out of my body, but as I'm not interested in OBE, in turns into dreams. I'm using dreams to find masters and ask for transmissions.
2) The realms of visions. It can be thögal visions or clarity visions. If have more clarity visions (which are the lesser ones), they happen when you concentrate on a chakra.
3) CL of deep sleep, the most interesting of course, but I'm not able to reach it. I'm losing consciousness in the process...

quote:

Kadak, how do you purify the earth-wind?



Like every other wind. I'm am using different techniques, because there are different levels of winds. For example you can practice vajra-recitation : you concentrate in the central channel, at the usual location of the wind - the problem is that I'm not sure of winds and locations, because schools don't agree with each other. So I consider : navel-red-fire / throat-air-green / heart-white-space / 2nd chakra-water-blue / 1st chakra-earth-yellow. But I may be wrong in the 3rd last chakras because nobody agrees. Anyway if I wanted to purify earth wind, I would concentrate on the root chakra, feeling a yellow light in the central channel. I would connect my mantra with the light and move the wind up in the central channel, and then down (that's explained in "Tantric grounds and paths"). The strength of the wind is said to unknot the chakras, and it is true. The process is blissful but can be painful if the wind is strong and the chakras tied. Then I would try to exhale the wind, imagining that it goes in the whole universe as the earth element, receiving blessings of all the buddhas, and then take it back in the central channel etc... You can also visualize yellow light in all your body, connected with the "home" of the wind in the central channel, and then you will purify the earth element in your body. As you see there are 2 aspects : earth wind in your body, and in the world. The 2 are connected but it is said that the elements in the body are subtle, and the "outside" elements are gross.
(I have noticed this for the body : when I feel pain, if I can determine the incriminated wind, I feel the wind in the central channel, where it is visualized as pure, then I visualize it in the painful area, and I connect both. The light has to be very bright. Anyway, it works surprisingly well. And if I can't find the wind, I try all the colors. And the strange thing is that one color works better than the others. Then I know which is the bad wind.)
This is the tantric way. But the dzogchen way is said to be 10 times faster. It is thögal practice, but I'm not good enough for it now.
(NB : you are from Canada, do you read french ? I've a text describing clarity experiences, very interesting, but it is only in french. In fact there are 2 books on the subject from this author, Charles Duits)

regards


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 26 2008 5:55:22 PM
Message:

Hi kadak

quote:
Originally posted by kadak
In fact there are different kind of sleeps.
1) There is conscious dream - I can do it either, there is a strange sound in the ears, some vibrations, and then, I'm out of my body, but as I'm not interested in OBE, in turns into dreams. I'm using dreams to find masters and ask for transmissions.
2) The realms of visions. It can be thögal visions or clarity visions. If have more clarity visions (which are the lesser ones), they happen when you concentrate on a chakra.
3) CL of deep sleep, the most interesting of course, but I'm not able to reach it. I'm losing consciousness in the process...




A long time ago, I used to practice "looking for my hands in dreams" as described by Carlos Casteneda. Before you fall asleep, you focus on the intention of looking at your hands when you catch yourself dreaming. On three occasions I succeeded in becoming fully aware in my dreams. It was fantastic and lots of fun. Not only were all the colors very sparkly and bright, but I could fly as well. During one of those dreams I thought I could fly right through the earth and I tried it. When I hit the ground it jarred me out. I guess pieces of my rational mind were still attached to the stream of awareness and it was too much of a shock to hit the ground at full speed..

quote:

I'm using dreams to find masters and ask for transmissions.


Have you had any luck with that?
Have you tried praying or have you ever considered shaktipat?

quote:

(NB : you are from Canada, do you read french ? I've a text describing clarity experiences, very interesting, but it is only in french. In fact there are 2 books on the subject from this author, Charles Duits)



I can speak, read and write french when I have to. (or maybe not) Mais je ne me souvient pas ce que tous let mots dits alors cet vraiment dificile de lire des livres avec des grands mots dedans..

Isn't Charles Duits a fantasy writer? Are any of your books in this list:
Le Pays de l’Éclairement (The Land of Illumination) (1967)
Ptah Hotep (1971)
Les Miférables (The Miferables) (1971)
La Conscience Démonique (Demonic Consciousness) (1974)
Nefer (1978)
Fruit sortant de l’Abîme (Fruit From The Abyss) (1993)




Om Shanti
Om Namah Shivaya


TI


Reply author: kadak
Replied on: Jun 26 2008 7:22:49 PM
Message:

Hi,

quote:

>I'm using dreams to find masters and ask for transmissions.
Have you had any luck with that?


Yes or I wouldn't mention it. I've asked for different things : "rigpa presentation" "benediction", specific transmissions about practices or "clear light of sleep". One of the best experiences was :"please show me what you're experimenting" with a tibetan lama. It was absolute bliss flowing from emptiness itself.
If you try, we can discuss then, but I wouldn't want to influence you too much.

quote:
Have you tried praying or have you ever considered shaktipat?


Prayer gives the same result (but smaller) as asking for transmission. As for Shaktipat, it is the indian name for transmission. When a guru enters your central channel, it is Shaktipat.

quote:
I can speak, read and write french when I have to. (or maybe not) Mais je ne me souvient pas ce que tous let mots dits alors cet vraiment dificile de lire des livres avec des grands mots dedans..
Isn't Charles Duits a fantasy writer?


He's more an author of classic litterature. The 2 books are :

Le Pays de l’Éclairement (The Land of Illumination) (1967)
La Conscience Démonique (Demonic Consciousness) (1974)


The text I mentionned is here, if you can read :
http://www.clarte.eu.com/textes/duits1.rtf
But maybe it could be not too difficult with the help of an automatic translator.
And maybe these paintings will interest you : http://www.clarte.eu.com/peinture.htm

BTW, did you ever try to "enter" someone else ? I found last week that I could do it, that is something with the central channel. The first time it happened, I stared at someone, and wanted really to help him, and then suddenly, I felt I was "in" him. By chance he didn't notice it. I couldn't see thoughts or things like this, but I felt much more his energetic structure. Since, I've tried with different people, sending bliss and love in them, but I'm not sure they've felt anything... Anyway, today I tried with one of my lamas, that was great, but rather quickly, I was blocked by my own veils. Similarly, I'm not able to stare at the sun. Now I will train on him. I'm sure he knows what I do, but I know he is OK, because one day he said :"Please use me as much as you can because I really want to help you". I'm sure he's beyond meaning clear light, and that he will end up in rainbow body, because he's a great practicioner.
(But my real master is Amma, my mantra comes from her. She's God and this lama is like her minister, which means that he is really good, because she usually says that human masters are useless. So I think he's no more human. Tibetans say that people beyond meaning CL are no more humans, they're like gods).

friendly


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 27 2008 12:07:17 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by kadak
BTW, did you ever try to "enter" someone else ? I found last week that I could do it, that is something with the central channel. The first time it happened, I stared at someone, and wanted really to help him, and then suddenly, I felt I was "in" him. By chance he didn't notice it. I couldn't see thoughts or things like this, but I felt much more his energetic structure. Since, I've tried with different people, sending bliss and love in them, but I'm not sure they've felt anything... Anyway, today I tried with one of my lamas, that was great, but rather quickly, I was blocked by my own veils.


Hi kadak
In the Self Realization Fellowship lessons, it says that the way to read someone's mind is to imagine that you are them. You place your consciousness in them, you imagine that you have their face, are their height etc and you become them. You use imagination, intent, will and concentration. Then, you check out what they are thinking.

That was one of the reasons why I decided to quit the SRF. At the time I thought that one should respect the privacy of individuals and I also did not like the idea of SRF members being able to read my mind.

Since then, after realizing that we are all one big ocean, and after considering the ethics of invading others' privacy (I'm still a little unsure about the ethics) I have tried this a few times for a few seconds just out of curiosity with complete strangers while sitting in restaurants.

Unfortunately, it is hard to confirm what you are seeing. You can't just walk up to someone and ask them if they live on a ranch with horses, and how is your son's hockey school going (because that is what I saw in her head). You run the risk of them either being shocked or thinking your are crazy, and they might not confirm what you are trying to verify.
Or maybe you can. "Excuse me, but were you just thinking about the horses on your ranch? I was just sitting here and suddenly it was like I was dreaming! All of a sudden I knew that you live on a ranch with horses and that you have a dark-haired 12 yr old boy who is attending hockey camp. Is that true?" -might work..

Lately I've been trying to understand the Buddhist idea that everything is empty, that is, everything lacks inherent self existence. From a moral standpoint, this idea is staggering.

quote:

One of the best experiences was :"please show me what you're experimenting" with a tibetan lama. It was absolute bliss flowing from emptiness itself.


That is very interesting. I will have to think about that for a while. Oh oh. Just had deja vu. I don't think I should discuss this topic... I keep thinking about the guru who says that the creations of the mind are endless and for that reason one should not focus on the third eye or any thought at all but strive to become silent and empty in order to realize the true essence of existence.


Oh kadak, I know what I was going to ask you. Have you ever considered trying Kunlun to clear out all your channels and purify your winds?



TI


Reply author: selfonlypath
Replied on: Jun 27 2008 12:11:22 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by kadak
BTW, did you ever try to "enter" someone else ? I found last week that I could do it, that is something with the central channel. The first time it happened, I stared at someone, and wanted really to help him, and then suddenly, I felt I was "in" him. By chance he didn't notice it. I couldn't see thoughts or things like this, but I felt much more his energetic structure. Since, I've tried with different people, sending bliss and love in them, but I'm not sure they've felt anything... Anyway, today I tried with one of my lamas, that was great, but rather quickly, I was blocked by my own veils. Similarly, I'm not able to stare at the sun. Now I will train on him. I'm sure he knows what I do, but I know he is OK, because one day he said :"Please use me as much as you can because I really want to help you". I'm sure he's beyond meaning clear light, and that he will end up in rainbow body, because he's a great practicioner.


Hey kadak,

If I may with all my respect to your wisdom posts on AYP, i've been taught by powerful tantrik-shamans under different lineages that it is not good to enter someone without his consent.

Either the one who knows this technique can set up psychic shield so in no time, it would stir up your own karma reflected and multiplied by 10.

On the other side, if the one you enter into is not consentful, then you can trap yourself inside him and not be able to come back or at least wound energetically both of you.

The applications of such techniques are awesome but believe me, the results can be drastic if not done correctly !

Amicalement, Albert


Reply author: kadak
Replied on: Jun 27 2008 1:12:20 PM
Message:

Hi

I think there is sort of a misunderstanding. I am absolutely not interested in telepathy or whatsoever.

quote:

That was one of the reasons why I decided to quit the SRF. At the time I thought that one should respect the privacy of individuals and I also did not like the idea of SRF members being able to read my mind.


quote:

If I may with all my respect to your wisdom posts on AYP, i've been taught by powerful tantrik-shamans under different lineages that it is not good to enter someone without his consent.

Either the one who knows this technique can set up psychic shield so in no time, it would stir up your own karma reflected and multiplied by 10.

On the other side, if the one you enter into is not consentful, then you can trap yourself inside him and not be able to come back or at least wound energetically both of you.

The applications of such techniques are awesome but believe me, the results can be drastic if not done correctly !


I know for sure that we don't speak of the same thing. I do this in the central channel, and it has nothing to do with shields etc... It is a side-effect of boddhicitta - that's why I described the circumstances. The person can be open or closed, it makes no difference to me. You speak of shield, but some persons are naturally shielded, as I am, for example. No seer could ever see anything about me. But I'm sure that my own technique would go beyond that if I meet someone like me. It doesn't happen at this level.
As I said, it is the side effect of boddhicitta. The only way to prevent it would be to stop feeling love toward someone. "Don't love him. You have no right". Well. That's against the teachings. Strangely, I was doing this yesterday, and the lama was saying :"You must love other people really really strongly. Equanimity is not just equanimity, it is immense love for everyone".
I don't think I am the person, I don't try to read minds etc... It just stare at the person, just concentrating on love and boddhicitta, feeling it in the central channel and the heart drop... and then it just happens. It is most interesting with people we don't like, because suddenly we understand them, and want only to help.
Besides, I think that an intrusive method would be felt. For example I know a friend who has the habit to stare at girls for "energetic union", but they feel it and don't like it so much. Because he is interested, he has a purpose. He doesn't do it with old and ugly guys. As for myself, I have only one purpose, boddhicitta. So I do it now with everyone, especially those who need help. And I did it yesterday with a very sensitive guy, he didn't feel anything. But he felt it when someone else tried to help him energetically. So that's different. And the lama would have stopped me (and believe me, he can) when I did it with him, or when he saw me do it with others.
In fact, I know that he is inside of everyone he sees, and many he doesn't see physically. There is no reason he should stop me going on the same way. God is omnipresent, in every being. If we shall be god one day, it will not happen suddenly. We will not jump from "just here" to "everywhere" and "inside everyone" in one second. (Amma says she is in everyone).

TI, what is Kunlun ?

friendly


Reply author: selfonlypath
Replied on: Jun 27 2008 4:12:46 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by kadak
I think there is sort of a misunderstanding. I am absolutely not interested in telepathy or whatsoever.

I know for sure that we don't speak of the same thing. I do this in the central channel, and it has nothing to do with shields etc... It is a side-effect of boddhicitta - that's why I described the circumstances. The person can be open or closed, it makes no difference to me. You speak of shield, but some persons are naturally shielded, as I am, for example. No seer could ever see anything about me. But I'm sure that my own technique would go beyond that if I meet someone like me. It doesn't happen at this level.
As I said, it is the side effect of boddhicitta. The only way to prevent it would be to stop feeling love toward someone. "Don't love him. You have no right". Well. That's against the teachings. Strangely, I was doing this yesterday, and the lama was saying :"You must love other people really really strongly. Equanimity is not just equanimity, it is immense love for everyone".
I don't think I am the person, I don't try to read minds etc... It just stare at the person, just concentrating on love and boddhicitta, feeling it in the central channel and the heart drop... and then it just happens. It is most interesting with people we don't like, because suddenly we understand them, and want only to help.
Besides, I think that an intrusive method would be felt. For example I know a friend who has the habit to stare at girls for "energetic union", but they feel it and don't like it so much. Because he is interested, he has a purpose. He doesn't do it with old and ugly guys. As for myself, I have only one purpose, boddhicitta. So I do it now with everyone, especially those who need help. And I did it yesterday with a very sensitive guy, he didn't feel anything. But he felt it when someone else tried to help him energetically. So that's different. And the lama would have stopped me (and believe me, he can) when I did it with him, or when he saw me do it with others.
In fact, I know that he is inside of everyone he sees, and many he doesn't see physically. There is no reason he should stop me going on the same way. God is omnipresent, in every being. If we shall be god one day, it will not happen suddenly. We will not jump from "just here" to "everywhere" and "inside everyone" in one second. (Amma says she is in everyone).


Do you consider it is in fact Shaktipat as you wrote earlier in this thread "As for Shaktipat, it is the indian name for transmission. When a guru enters your central channel, it is Shaktipat." ?

Albert


Reply author: kadak
Replied on: Jun 27 2008 6:32:30 PM
Message:

I suppose it is meant to be one day. The guru is in me, as he is in others. This kind of "unions" are like the guru uniting with the guru by the means of central channels. Somehow I feel like there is only one central channel, and none is alone in it because we're all in it.
That's why I would say : tantric union being the same thing in essence (union of central channels), it cannot be personal, nor motivated by personal research for happiness or well-being, or enlightenment. Motivation should be the good of all sentient being. Through this motivation, one can reach universality, and help all beings from the inside.
I don't pretend to give any Shaktipat to anyone of course. I'm just asking the guru to do it, and to use me if I can help.


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 27 2008 6:35:22 PM
Message:

Hi sadak
Thank you for writing all that. It helps me understand that we are all connected through the heart by love and that we are one, like [emc]'s ocean.


quote:
Originally posted by kadak
TI, what is Kunlun ?



Kunlun, is a method of clearing the pathways in the body through involuntary shaking. It is taught by Max Christensen:Lama Ngakpa Dorje (Tibetan). Sadak, have you ever heard of him?

It is supposed to be the ultimate root practice, older than anything else..

Here is a link to the website:

http://www.kunlunbliss.com

Here is a link to Kunlun on this forum:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3314

Here is a link to Kunlun on the taobums (there are many topics there):
http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php...ic=3646&st=0




TI


Reply author: kadak
Replied on: Jun 27 2008 9:33:08 PM
Message:

Hi

I've read the different things, it seems rather soft, compared to tummo. And when you're trained in the harder technique, the softer one doesn't seem so interesting.
And I have to confess that all this bliss advertising doesn't seem serious to me. These seminars will catch people in search for personal well-being, like chi-qung, tantric seminars etc... But once you're in the boddhisattva path, all these personnal issues, problems, bliss... seem rather small-minded.
(BTW, my name is kadak, which is a tibetan word. But Sadak is great too, because I'm trying to be one).


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 28 2008 7:12:33 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by kadak

Hi

I've read the different things, it seems rather soft, compared to tummo. And when you're trained in the harder technique, the softer one doesn't seem so interesting.
And I have to confess that all this bliss advertising doesn't seem serious to me. These seminars will catch people in search for personal well-being, like chi-qung, tantric seminars etc... But once you're in the boddhisattva path, all these personnal issues, problems, bliss... seem rather small-minded.
(BTW, my name is kadak, which is a tibetan word. But Sadak is great too, because I'm trying to be one).




Hi kadak
I'm terribly sorry for the mistake. K is quite far away from S on the keyboard so it must have been a mental lapse (or a sign) For anyone who is interested, here is a link to "sadak":
http://www.tibetan-astrology.net/sadak.html

Don't be fooled by the presentation of Kunlun, the marketing and it's simplicity of practice. The same shaking method is also revealed by Barabar Brennan in her "Hands of Light" book and by Osho as a kundalini meditation. And yes, the shaking part is mindless and quite boring but it's a practice in clearing and 'letting go'. It will clear you out so thoroughly that your body might disappear.

When I first 'tied into Max' after listening to him speak on a Radio Show, I experienced energy surges for 1 1/2 hours after.. :) I also found that doing Kunlun has really accelerated every thing else.

Just thought I'd mention it.


TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 29 2008 12:56:02 AM
Message:

Hi,
For the last four days I've changed my meditation from the AYAM meditation to the "OM -one" "OM -two" while matching the in-breath with the OM and the out-breath with the count. (the ringing is now in both ears equally now but not as loud. )

This is what I did yesterday:
- standard practice: 1/2 hr Bhastrika, Spinal Breathing, Meditation
- Kunlun (bounce the legs, let go) 1/2 hr
- standard practice: 45 min Bhastrika, Spinal Breathing, Meditation, rest. (I started to see a light blue and white clump of light but I could not make it clearer)
- 1 hour slow abdominal deep breathing to gather chi while finishing off "Path Notes of an American Ninja Master" by Glenn Morris. After about 40 minutes my hands and face started getting hot. Heat down the nostrils too. Glenn's experience with kundalini is very similar to mine; pain in the perenium, visions of female genitalia, naked woman appearing (he calls her Shiva), psychic phenomenon...
- 20 minutes full lotus to see if I could magnify the light blue and white light
- 1/2 Micro Cosmic Orbit or which half was the reversed path because that is supposed to cool you down. It worked to a degree.

This is what i did today:
- by a serene location by a river (beautiful nature setting) I did several asanas including full lotus while seated on a tatami mat on the ground. I also performed various breathing routines.

As I was sitting there a young couple drove up, got out of their car and set up a sun-bathing camp about 300 yards away. I looked a few times at them but continued with meditation. It was sort of funny because I was almost seeing the entire nature scene before me with eyes closed.

At one point I mentally zoomed in to the young couple lying on their blanket and that scene became crystal clear, like I was looking at them through binoculars. I was amazed, astounded .. However, when I opened my eyes and looked over, the male was not in the position that I had zoomed in on; he had lifted his legs so his knees were now bent. I would have expected to see his legs laying flat as I had observed in the zoom in.

Maybe there is a time warp when I zoom? I've got to remember that. Either that, or I'm developing some sort of photographic memory and I'm just playing with the memory of the visual inside my head??

-I did my normal practice of 1/2 hour while sitting in easy posture. Since my hip was hurting quite a bit I felt that I hadn't gotten a good meditation so I took a breather and then went in the other room and sat on my meditation chair. I did another 1/2 there.

At the end of this meditation, something strange happened. All of a sudden, something melted coming from the top of my head and there was a shower of silver white light that rained down in me. It filled my head and upper body. The shower resembled streams of water and it felt nice (not that pleasureable though, it felt like very fine little tingles). My body did not dissolve. This experience lasted about 3 seconds. I think my surprise at this phenomenon pulled me out of it. I wonder what that was.

-During the afternoon meditation, I started to see a dark thing in the same location where the lights/sun/moon appear. I focused on it for a while to try to make it clearer or pull it closer. It was very weird. It looked like a circle with dark spots in the center. It did not shine. It had 10 petals surrounding it like a sunflower's petals. It gave off no light, or rather, it contained enough light to barely make out the outline but it was not a luminous body. It did not radiate any light. It's color was smoky gray. The background was black. I wonder what that is!!! I hope it's not my solar plexus chakra..


TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 29 2008 5:04:10 PM
Message:

Hi
I have to tell someone.
This morning I went and sat out by the river again. I managed to read out loud the Bhuta Shudhi Mantra three times. Then I performed a few exercises but nothing event-full happened.

When I got back home, I did my regular practice. During meditation, I had a very subtle melting of sorts but only for a second. After practice, I went and sat in the bathroom and had a cigarette and sipped on the rest of my coffee.

I started thinking about the heart meditations, melting the heart, the light in the heart chakra.. I decided to do a heart meditation right there on the bathroom floor:
I focussed on the white light in my heart and kept my attention on it. After a few minutes I started to shake. I took an overall census of body states and my breathing was being controlled by my concentration, my perineum was contracted as well as the anus and the abdomen (lightly and getting tighter). I noticed that the pulses were going down through my legs, up my body and even in the arms. Was this kunlun energy activating? It was also very comfortable to sit and it felt like my body had a certain strength to it.

I relaxed everything but the pulses continued. I kept on meditating on the white light in the heart and the pulses grew stronger. As the pulses were occuring, again, the perineum anus and lower abdomen were contracting. I just let them and kept on focussing on the heart.

Next, I brought down divine energy from above, through the crown and into the heart. This produced a kind of swoon. I kept at it for 1/2 a minute. As the energy from the root came up and the divine energy came down and met at the heart, the white light in my heart grew bigger. Meanwhile, the pulses were getting stronger. I went back to just focussing on the heart light for a while longer.

I stopped the meditation and took inventory again. I just relaxed everything. My perineum was pulsing and seemed to be the source of the pulses!!! It was pulsing about 5 times a second. Solid waves of pulses. Now I'm thinking that, as mentioned in the B Gita, the easiest method of bringing the root energy up is by centering on the heart chakra. And my meditation on the heart chakra caused the perenium to start pulsing.

Perhaps the pulsing perineum is a precursor to kundalini rising/activation? Has anyone else out there experienced that phenomenon?


TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 29 2008 7:36:26 PM
Message:

Hi,
Ho ho ho I've just finished reading multiple articles on how the perineum throbs when kundalini is awakened!

For example: I found this on Sri Swami Sivananda's document called "Kundalini Yoga":

quote:

"EXPERIENCES ON AWAKENING OF KUNDALINI
During meditation you behold divine visions, experience divine smell, divine taste, divine touch, hear divine Anahata sounds. You receive instructions from God. These indicate that the Kundalini Shakti has been awakened. When there is throbbing in Muladhara, when hairs stand on their roots, when Uddiyana, Jalandhara and Mulabandha come involuntarily, know that Kundalini has awakened."




That is very interesting. According to this excerpt and my experience today, I would say that I'm having success. Not only is the throbbing of the Muladhara an indicator, but the involuntary Uddiyana, Jalandhara and Mulabandha which I described as contracting on their own (I just let them). The other phenomenon I noticed was that the body felt really good and powerful, like it was a pleasure to sit in that posture.
Also, the waves which were emanating from the perineum are still going on, several hours later. I think I'll go meditate again..



TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 03 2008 5:40:03 PM
Message:

Hi
This is where I'm at today.

I don't understand shambhavi.

There seems to be two ways to perform shambhavi. The first way is to focus your eyes up between your brows and gently contract your eyebrows which exerts a slight pressure on that area. You fix your gaze at that location, and keep looking there. This had been the 'shambhavi' that I have been performing most of the time, during spinal breathing, during meditation and experimentation.

The other kind of Shambavi (notice I capitalized it) is when you pretend that you are either falling asleep or about to pass out; the first thing you do is produce the feeling in your forehead, then your head and neck automatically relax and finally your eyes roll up and inwards all by themselves. The main focus is the 'passing out' feeling starting at the middle forehead and sucking it back into the head. When I do this I get the following effects:

1)It is extremely disorienting. I lose touch with my surroundings. It does feel like I could pass out. My mind becomes empty quickly.

2)I automatically feel tingling and a connection to my testicles as well as the lower tan tien. It is a pleasurable connection. It is like this style of Shambhavi exposes a pathway between my brow and my testicles and there is a secondary connection to a centre an inch below my navel.

3)When I perform this Shambhavi for 20 seconds, I start to get hot quickly.

4)Today, I tried this style of Shambhavi on and off for a while as I was sitting at my desk. Maybe, a total time of 2 minutes. Well, now my head, shoulders, arms and hands are hot, and they feel like raw nerves with a slight tingle. I feel sunburned inside. There is pressure in my forehead and I lose my balance easily (like I've just woken from a very deep sleep).

5)As usual, when I perform this style of Shambhavi, I'm immersed in some kind of light that before today I believed was some kind of photo-emmision from the cones and rods in my eyes, but now I'm wondering differently.

6)After stopping, it feels like I have a very strong magnetic hole in between my eyes and a smaller one about 1 inch higher.


This second style of Shambhavi is encouraging to me, because, I read on this site that ida and pingala are connected to the left and right testicles respectively.

http://www.dlshq.org/download/kundalini.htm

quote:

Ida and Pingala Nadis are not the gross sympathetic chains. These are the subtle Nadis that carry the Sukshma Prana. In the physical body these tentatively correspond to the right and left sympathetic chains.
Ida starts from the right testicle and Pingala from the left testicle.




So, I now believe that the second style of Shambhavi is directly activating or tapping into the ida and pingala channels, perhaps stopping them thus activating the central channel or causing kundalini to rise???

If anyone would like to try this second style of Shambhavi and see what it does for them, I would sure be interested in knowing what your results are. Thanks!


TI


Reply author: kadak
Replied on: Jul 04 2008 08:23:35 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice


The other kind of Shambavi (notice I capitalized it) is when you pretend that you are either falling asleep or about to pass out; the first thing you do is produce the feeling in your forehead, then your head and neck automatically relax and finally your eyes roll up and inwards all by themselves. The main focus is the 'passing out' feeling starting at the middle forehead and sucking it back into the head. When I do this I get the following effects:





This kind of sambhavi spontaneouly happens when you experiment strong bliss (with winds or drops involved). In your description, bliss doesn't seem to be the triggering factor, so you should be careful. In all the techniques involving winds in the central channel, bliss should come first, because all the other phenomena like disorientation would not be disturbing. As a friend said "the only reason who could convince ego to die, is love". If you read christian mystics, they all want to die for love. But if love (bliss) is not strong enough, you see death coming (dissolving the winds is exactly like death) and you may have second-thoughts... For example, UG Krishnamurti was rather afraid the first time he "died" (a "strike" of example clear light), and I guess he is not the only one. Then he said all the process during the 6 months after was like hell. In my opinion, he wasn't moved by love, so it was very difficult. On the contrary, when christian mystics experiment this sort of clear light, they're really happy, in fact they just want to die and see God, so that's easy.


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 04 2008 10:54:33 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by kadak
This kind of sambhavi spontaneouly happens when you experiment strong bliss (with winds or drops involved). In your description, bliss doesn't seem to be the triggering factor, so you should be careful. In all the techniques involving winds in the central channel, bliss should come first, because all the other phenomena like disorientation would not be disturbing. As a friend said "the only reason who could convince ego to die, is love". If you read christian mystics, they all want to die for love. But if love (bliss) is not strong enough, you see death coming (dissolving the winds is exactly like death) and you may have second-thoughts... For example, UG Krishnamurti was rather afraid the first time he "died" (a "strike" of example clear light), and I guess he is not the only one. Then he said all the process during the 6 months after was like hell. In my opinion, he wasn't moved by love, so it was very difficult. On the contrary, when christian mystics experiment this sort of clear light, they're really happy, in fact they just want to die and see God, so that's easy.



Hi Kadak
Thank you for your response and thank you very much for pointing out UG Krishnamurti. What a heavy hitting author! I've spent the day reading some of his books like this one:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Natural_State

Perhaps (as you mention) UG was not moved by love. Perhaps his heart chakra did not open completely? Perhaps his kundalini never rose to the higher chakras? Perhaps, as he says, we cannot understand his experience?

Did he consume most of his white drops by having frequent sex? Here is what UG said:
quote:

Once a holy man came to see me. He was claiming that denial of sex is so essential for the spiritual future of man. I said, “ It's a crime against nature. Nature has not intended you to deny sex. ” Then he got up and left. How can that abnormal situation be made a model for all spiritual aspirants and why torture them? Why has denial of sex been made the foundation of spiritual enlightenment? As a reaction or a revolt against that, what you call the tantric system appeared in this country.




I don't know. He does seem to have experienced bliss and ecstasy but attributes it to experiential realms. He also says that the human body cannot tolerate continued stimulation (such as bliss and meditation) for long periods of time. Here are some quotes:
quote:

So when there is an outburst of energy which is not your energy or my energy but God's (call it by any name you like) it is like a river in spate. The energy that is operating there does not feel the limitations of the body. It is not interested. It has its own momentum. It is a very painful thing. It is not ecstatic, blissful and all that rubbish, stuff and nonsense. It is really a painful thing.


Your natural state has no relationship whatsoever with the religious states of bliss and ecstasy. They lie within the field of experience. Those who have led man on his search for religiousness throughout the centuries have perhaps experienced those religious states, so can you. They are thought-induced states of being and as they come so do they go. All are trips in the wrong direction. They are all within the field of time. Timeless can never be experienced, grasped, contained, much less given expression to, by any man. That beaten track will lead you nowhere. There is no oasis situated yonder. You are stuck with the mirage.


The realization dawns on you that those experiences, however profound they may be, aren't worth anything, that's all. You may be in a blissful state; even after that calamity you have blissful states, ecstatic states, a sudden melting away of everything that is there. It doesn't mean anything. You experience, I experience—what is the difference?


You cannot experience anything which you can call your own. Whatever you experience, however profound that experience may be, is the result of the knowledge that is part of your consciousness. Somebody must have, somewhere along the line, experienced bliss, ecstasy—call it by whatever name you like—and that experience is part of your consciousness. You have to come to a point where you see that there is no such thing as a new experience at all. The mystic who experiences what the sages have talked about is still in the field of duality, whereas the sages or seers are functioning in the undivided state of consciousness.




And here is some more food for thought(not that UG is lacking any of that.. )

quote:


When you succeed in your imagination that you have controlled your thoughts and experienced some space between those thoughts, or some state of thoughtlessness, you feel that you are getting somewhere. That is a thought-induced state of thoughtlessness. The fact that you experience the space between two thoughts, the thoughtless state, means that the thought was very much there.



Right now, after the initial impact of reading UG's "The Natural State" I'm thinking that he is sort of an existential buddhist. His writing has had such an impact on me that it's going to take a few days to digest everything, assess and see where I end up.


I have ordered the "Heart drops of dharmakaya" book. It should be interesting.

Say Kadak, I have a question for you. In "The Clear Light of Bliss" it says this:
quote:


Penetrating the crown channel increases the white drops, penetrating the throat channel wheel makes dream practices very powerful, penetrating the heart channel wheel enables us to maintain the appearance of clear light, penetrating the navel channel wheel increases inner fire, penetrating the channel wheel of the secret place induces an experience of strong bliss, and penetrating the channel wheel at the tip of the sex organ enhances the experience of strong bliss and induces a quick, deep, long sleep.



Do you happen to know what penetrating the other four doors do? Especially the Ajna or brow area?

OM Shanti

TI



Reply author: kadak
Replied on: Jul 05 2008 6:36:46 PM
Message:

quote:
Perhaps his heart chakra did not open completely? Perhaps his kundalini never rose to the higher chakras? Perhaps, as he says, we cannot understand his experience?

Sure, but anyway, I don't think he reached meaning CL, because I never saw any sign of it in his speeches.

quote:

Once a holy man came to see me. He was claiming that denial of sex is so essential for the spiritual future of man. I said, “ It's a crime against nature. Nature has not intended you to deny sex. ” Then he got up and left. How can that abnormal situation be made a model for all spiritual aspirants and why torture them? Why has denial of sex been made the foundation of spiritual enlightenment? As a reaction or a revolt against that, what you call the tantric system appeared in this country.



I think this is a wrong interpretation. I don't think tantric system is a revolt but a necessity. Tantras are not only about sex, sex is only the final part of it. But, as some people need to keep quiet to develop themselves, other ones notice that with different stimulations, the winds are easier to purify.

quote:

I don't know. He does seem to have experienced bliss and ecstasy


Of course. He had a rather deep example CL, but he didn't really want it. So it was painful.


quote:
He also says that the human body cannot tolerate continued stimulation (such as bliss and meditation) for long periods of time.



That's true for winds/drops blisses. But wrong for the highest kind of bliss, wich is totally outside of the channels. Tibetans speak of a state where bliss is permanent.

quote:

When you succeed in your imagination that you have controlled your thoughts and experienced some space between those thoughts, or some state of thoughtlessness, you feel that you are getting somewhere. That is a thought-induced state of thoughtlessness. The fact that you experience the space between two thoughts, the thoughtless state, means that the thought was very much there.



"the space between two thoughts" is just an example for beginners, to help them to identify natural state.

quote:


Do you happen to know what penetrating the other four doors do? Especially the Ajna or brow area?




No, I don't know.

regards


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 06 2008 11:12:14 PM
Message:

Hi Kadak,
Thank you for responding. I appreciate your insight.

Last night, before bed, I did a meditation on the bright white light in the center of my head. Basically, I just focus my attention on it and try to make it the sole object of attention. No mantra or controlled breathing or anything else. Just watch the light.
What happens is that after a few minutes, a shower of tingles is released that flows downwards and envelopes my whole body. Thus, I become distracted and then I try again. After another minute or so, I hit just the right spot where the light doesn't fade and the shower of tingles is released again. I kept this up for 20 minutes, that is, focus, maintain, hit the light and tingles are released.

I assume that what I am doing is melting the white drops in my crown. (I don't know where exactly the white light is situated, whether it's the brow, higher on the brow or actually the crown).
This morning, as I sat for my morning coffee, I had a strange realization or feeling. In my mind's eye it felt like my body was this giant spacious thing. It felt really large and hollow and 'I' felt really small. It was like the inside of my body was a huge universe.

Now for the questions.

Am I penetrating the crown or am I melting drops? (or both or neither?)

Will doing the practice as I have described it cause white drops to be lost or increased?


Thanks.

TI


Reply author: kadak
Replied on: Jul 07 2008 05:48:03 AM
Message:

Hi

was it cold or not ? White drop is never neutral but always cold, or at least fresh (like fresh water)(BTW, you said it was not mentionned in TCLOB, but it is mentioned in "Essence of Vajrayana").
I don't know if you will increase the white drop, but I don't think you could lose it with this kind of practice, because you're cleaning the channels of the head with it, and that's not bad. The only "mistake", if I may say, it that you don't drip it in the central channel, which would be much more useful.
Apparently, you increase the white drop only if you drip it in the central channel.

regards


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 07 2008 3:21:20 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by kadak

Hi

was it cold or not ? White drop is never neutral but always cold, or at least fresh (like fresh water)(BTW, you said it was not mentionned in TCLOB, but it is mentioned in "Essence of Vajrayana").


Hi Kadak
It was cold. As a matter of fact, the next day, after eating dinner, my body was cold for the first time in four months. My arms and hands were very cold. I enjoyed it! Today, after meditation, the heat is back so all is 'normal' again.. I will have to buy that book as well.

quote:


I don't know if you will increase the white drop, but I don't think you could lose it with this kind of practice, because you're cleaning the channels of the head with it, and that's not bad.


The tingles go down and fill the entire body, so perhaps it is helping clear the etheric body too. Good to know.

quote:

The only "mistake", if I may say, it that you don't drip it in the central channel, which would be much more useful.
Apparently, you increase the white drop only if you drip it in the central channel.



I'm a little confused. The light in my head is not that hard to find, it seems to be in the center of my head, even if the inside of my head is a rather large space. But is that light not in the central channel already? I can find that light and melt something but you can direct it too after melting it? Does it explain this in TCLOB? It seemed that, from reading TCLOB, that vase breath takes the fire up the central channel and that fire melts the drops, which fall down the central channel. And, if you practice the 'locks' you can slow the drop down and extend the blissful feeling at the channel wheels..
So how does one direct the melting drop down the central channel as opposed to it filling the etheric body?

Thnks!

TI


Reply author: kadak
Replied on: Jul 07 2008 3:54:39 PM
Message:

Hi

That's not clearly explained in TCLOB, but when the white drop drips like a shower, it is not in the central channel. When it drips in the CC, it drips only in the center and extends to the entire body from the centers of the wheels. But the main part stays at the center.
For the CC, it is a the center of the body, but as it is not physical, you can ignite the fire at the center of the body and drip the white drop at the same place, and still be outside the central channel. If you re-read TCLOB, he says that some people mess up and ignite the fire outside.
The central channel is the location of divine love. This can be felt at the back, in the spine, too, but as I said earlier, the spine just contains the physical trigger points of the CC, which is itself at the center.
Anyway, when you drip the white drop in the CC, you feel very great bliss (the 4 joys), and, when correctly done + vase breathing, you should see the 7 signs, and it should lead you to the clear light of meditation. But it is rather difficult to have it all OK at the same time.


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 11 2008 12:09:05 AM
Message:

Hi
Where am I at now?
Four days ago I changed my mantra to "OM HRIM KRIM HUM SHRIM".
During meditation I also make a serious attempt at sucking in from my brow (pretending to fall asleep), to the point where my eyes roll up automatically and most of my body feels like it becomes a cloud of energy. In this state, a connection between my brow and my lower tan tien and testicles becomes very apparent, like it is one field of connectedness or electrical energy. I also notice that the root lock kicks in automatically..

The effect has been that after 3/4 the way through a meditation, my consciousness starts to lose it. It wavers and I become disorientated. I loose track of where I am in the mantra repetition. I also notice that my body feels like a flame of sorts; it is moving or pulsing from side to side, especially around the head.

But the thing that is happening that concerns me the most is the visions. I've been seeing snakes for two days now. One was curled like the path around the chakras. Then it straightened out and then reverted back to the extended 'S' pattern. Another vision showed the body of a large dark green cobra. Today, on an in breath, two snakes rose up, entertwining as they ascended and ended with their heads looking at each other. Again, the pattern they produced resembled a circular spiraling pattern around the chakras, like ida and pingala circumnavigating the chakras upwards.

Today, during meditation, I found myself looking at a scene of a man water skiing on a wave board. He was wearing a black and yellow diving suit and the water was very blue. I tried to ignore the scene, but it was like looking at a real life scene. Then, he wiped out and fell into the water. However, instead of sinking, he jumped up out of the water and started running after the boat. It was so funny that I laughed. He was running on top of the water! Then, I got very annoyed that I was having trouble ignoring this episode and I had to direct considerable effort to return to my meditation. It took me about 5 seconds to pull my attention away from this scene. It just would not go away. I feel kind of abused and resentful. I wonder what is going on with that.

TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 12 2008 12:04:18 AM
Message:

Hi
These are my conclusions. I've just finished reading the "Heart Drops of Dharmakaya" and to be quite honest, I have no better idea about my visions now, which have now turned into videos (motion pictures, maybe I should call them dreams?). The one point that resonates the most with me, that I found in the book, is this: As you relax the body and the breath becomes very shallow and light, the winds calm down. When the winds are calm, no thoughts are produced.

This is what happened to me today.

I was sitting on a chair in a waiting room and I focused on my third eye, relaxed my body and started to mentally chant "OM". As I looked up into the space in the third eye cavern, I saw a small universe. The universe was circling around. Gradually, it spun around faster and faster and it's bottom stretched out like a funnel. Then the end of the funnel changed direction and stretched out from the top. After that, the end of the funnel became a long tube which started stretching towards me. At the head of the tube was a colorful item. I kept watching. Holy Crow! It was Mickey Mouse flying around!
I'm thinking that this is the dream world coming to life.

For my afternoon meditation, I didn't go to my meditation room. Instead, I stayed at my desk and did this:
1) Relaxed my body until my testicles and lower tan tien were tingling. When I do this, I can feel energy channels right down to my feet and my perineum involuntarily contracts. I become a cloud of tingles. I also release my breathing so it becomes lower abdominal breathing, very shallow with little or no volitional control.
2) Focus on my brow, pretend to suck inwards like I'm going to fall asleep until I can feel the electrical connection between my testicles and by brow and I put my tongue on my epiglotis. At this point my whole forehead feels like a magnetic vacuum cleaner sucking inwards and my eyes roll upwards and inwards.
3) Start repeating the mantra (nowadays I use "OM HRIM KRIM HUM SHRIM"). (pronounced OM hreem kreem hoom shreem)

Well, what happened today is that I was overwhelmed with very clear dream-like visions. These dreams appear as reality in texture, color and are hard to distinguish from reality. I stayed not attached and watched them progress while repeating the mantra. Towards the end of my meditation, I pulled back my point of view and, instead of shifting from one 'dream' to another, I saw a whole scene that looked like a hundred round openings to dreams and I realized that there are hundreds of dream holes to fly into or focus one's attention on (that's the best way I can describe it). Each hole had it's own little motion picture scene moving along inside of it.

I think that what is happening is that I'm succesfully duplicating conscious sleep, by relaxing the entire body and doing the three steps I described earlier. During this meditation I was still aware of my body, my surroundings and the sounds of the work environment, yet I'm dreaming and meditating. I don't know how to shut off the dreams or get beyond them. Maybe I should see if I could meditate in one of the dreams??

Maybe by generating the mantra I'm stirring up dream winds? I'll have to try to let go of everything next time.. Has anyone else here gotten past the dream phase? If so, how did you do it?



TI



Reply author: kadak
Replied on: Jul 12 2008 07:53:06 AM
Message:

Hi

To get past the dream phase or any phase, you have to dissolve the winds (concentrating on the heart drop would be the best way, I think). I did thousands of lucid dreams myself, but dream state is not very interesting.
(During the dream state, winds abide in the central channel but are not dissolved).


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 13 2008 12:48:41 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by kadak

Hi

To get past the dream phase or any phase, you have to dissolve the winds (concentrating on the heart drop would be the best way, I think). I did thousands of lucid dreams myself, but dream state is not very interesting.
(During the dream state, winds abide in the central channel but are not dissolved).



Hi Kadak
Great! Thanks for that. Yes, the dream state is not very interesting. It is like a science fiction library with thousands of books in it!
I have been neglecting my heart meditations because I was getting pulses from the root when I was doing them. I guess I'm a little chicken to force kundalini without insurance.. more on that later.

I was going to mention.. There are two other things which stick out in my mind that I read in "Heart Drops of Dharmakaya":
1) When some tibetan monks die, their bodies end up shrinking and looking like little lotus posture statues
2) Following some practices in that book cause the body to disappear. This one fascinates me because that is supposed to be what happens in Kunlun too.


TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 13 2008 01:00:32 AM
Message:

Hi,
Today I got Shaktipat in absentia from Shri Anandi Ma.

After the formalities, I spent 1 1/2 hours meditating.

Throughout the meditation I saw Shri Anandi Ma and at some points, I saw Dhyanyogi and a string of other gurus standing there (all the way back to this blue archer whom I think is supposed to be Ram). At another point Shri Anandi Ma shot some gold and blue electic currents out of her eyes into me.

As far as energy flow goes, I felt very little. And, after that I had to do 108 Bhuta Shuddhi mantras which took me 1 hr and 20 min. I haven't actually done a regular meditation today. I'm wondering what that is going to be like now..

So, I'm going to be celibate, vegetarian and perform 108 Bhuta Shuddhi mantras for the next 9 days, as directed. Wish me luck!


TI


Reply author: kadak
Replied on: Jul 13 2008 09:03:54 AM
Message:

quote:

I have been neglecting my heart meditations because I was getting pulses from the root when I was doing them.


I felt you were doing well with the heart meditation, and, as it is definitely the key, maybe you should try to go further with it. One can see kundalini as something going up from root to crown, or as the clear light level you can reach through heart chakra. As you can see it, meditation should be rather easy.
The clear light is a very transformative energy. The deeper you can go in your heart, the more spiritual transformation you will experiment.

quote:
1) When some tibetan monks die, their bodies end up shrinking and looking like little lotus posture statues
2) Following some practices in that book cause the body to disappear. This one fascinates me because that is supposed to be what happens in Kunlun too.



This is rainbow body. The body reintegrates its original nature, which is light. In fact, some people have already achieved rainbow body while they seem normal to us, because they keep an appearance of physical body to help other people. One with rainbow body can create (several) physical appearances at will, at different locations at the same time, etc. And they don't die, of course, because the death of their physical body is only an appearance for us.

And good luck for the next 9 days !


Reply author: Suryakant
Replied on: Jul 13 2008 11:09:39 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

Hi,
Today I got Shaktipat in absentia from Shri Anandi Ma.

After the formalities, I spent 1 1/2 hours meditating.

Throughout the meditation I saw Shri Anandi Ma and at some points, I saw Dhyanyogi and a string of other gurus standing there (all the way back to this blue archer whom I think is supposed to be Ram). At another point Shri Anandi Ma shot some gold and blue electic currents out of her eyes into me.

As far as energy flow goes, I felt very little. And, after that I had to do 108 Bhuta Shuddhi mantras which took me 1 hr and 20 min. I haven't actually done a regular meditation today. I'm wondering what that is going to be like now..

So, I'm going to be celibate, vegetarian and perform 108 Bhuta Shuddhi mantras for the next 9 days, as directed. Wish me luck!


TI


Jai Ram!





Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 13 2008 4:14:42 PM
Message:

Hi Kadak and Suryakant

Thanks!!!

I've finally gotten Dhyanyogi's Bhuta Shuddhi Mantra memorized so I don't have to read it out loud. That is quite a powerful mantra directed at the sushumna. I'm going to dry my air body of impurities, burn the impurities in my causal body and join my sushumna to Shiva Parama (highest God).. And when kundalini gets stronger, I now have a lineage of gurus to make sure it is safe. (insurance policy)



TI


Reply author: kadak
Replied on: Jul 13 2008 5:47:49 PM
Message:

quote:
I'm going to dry my air body of impurities,


Great ! Please don't forget to tell us when you walk on water !


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 13 2008 9:58:45 PM
Message:

Hi,
Where am I at now? I'll tell you.

First taste of kriyas.
I received Shaktipat in absentia from Shri Anandi Ma yesterday. As part of my followup, I have to do 108 Bhuta Shuddhi mantras every day for 10 days. So, this is day 2...
Celibacy: Yes
Vegetarianism: Yes

I sat down in my meditation place and started the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra. Tough going trying to remember all of that. I got a flashlight and when I forgot something, I'd turn the light on and look. After about 15 minutes I had it and was starting to relax into the meditation (sambhavi, tongue on palate, relax the body). I never got really relaxed or all things going at once. I mean, the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra is a killer.

I kept at it, determined that I was going to meditate like regular "I AM", "AYAM" or "OM HRIM KRIM HUM SHRIM" mantra meditation.

Gradually it got a bit easier but not much. I had to do 108 repetitions. After about 40 minutes, my lower back was getting sore so I went and got a chair, put in over my asam and sat on it. Then I continued the mantra.

After another 30 minutes I had it down pretty good, just to the point where I was starting to get comfortable with the mantra. It was still slow going. Too slow. At this rate it would take me hours to finish the 108 repetitions. I also remember that I was starting to get sexually turned on a little. Shortly after 'it' began!!

I was repeating the mantra and I could not remember anything of it. My mind went blank. I tried very hard to remember, to get back into it but I couldn't. I wasn't asleep. I tried again to engage my brain but it wouldn't work anymore. It shut down. I was in awe. I couldn't even think of what to do, where the flashlight was or the paper to read it from. So, I let go.

I mean, it is very hard for something to shut my brain off. When I was a kid, when I got my tonsils out, they gave me three needles to try to put me to sleep and still I wouldn't fall asleep. They ended up gassing me. I've never passed out from a drunk (long long time ago when I did drink as a teenager) and I fall asleep when I say it's ok to fall asleep. I've never been hypnotized and have a phobia about letting anyone or thing control my body. I won't channel or even entertain the idea of channeling. My body is mine.. :)

So here I was and my brain wasn't working anymore. My awareness was still functioning and I could see a clump of lights at the third eye. This clump, consisted of a blue square of light, some irregular shapes of white lights and a yellow triangle of light. I focused on them wondering if there was a scene in there but there wasn't. It was just lights in shapes, like someone had cut out shapes in carboard and then dropped them on the floor.

Next, my head started moving to the right side. As I looked around and started checking things out, I could see an outline of my body that was clear/transparent but it had a very bright white aura around the edges, extending outwards for about 1/2 inch. It was like there were layers of me, superimposed on themselves. One layer was a thick browny type of dense layer with dark clouds in it.

I was not moving my head. There was a 'force' moving it but I couldn't tell where the 'force' was coming from.

Then my head turned over and back and was leaning on the left side. It was weird because I was not asleep, I was aware of everything, yet it was like being in an open space with different layers of my body and the body part of it was being gently moved to different positions. I could feel very fine tingles going up and down my body, up to my toes. There were also different subtle energy flows moving around in the outer denser body.

Next, my body fell forward so that my head was now between my legs. My arms flopped down and startled me. They just dropped like dead weights. That was a bit disconcerting. I knew, though, that this is fine. It was sort of enjoyable. The tingles were nice and subtle. I thought that I had fallen apart. I thought to myself, these must be kriyas. Interesting.

Then I started to get paranoid about having too much pressure on my internal organs from being hunched over like that. So I decided to sit up. I tried to sit up and a 'force' pushed me back down. It felt like a gentle magnetic push on my lower back. I tried again to sit up, and again, this force pushed me back down. So I stayed down. Then I started getting a pain in my leg around the center of the left thigh.

So here I was hunched over on my chair, not asleep, not thinking of much and wondering if I was going to be able to sit up. So, I tried again and put some gusto in it. It worked. I guess I had to know if I could break out of 'kriyas' if I wanted to or had to. Yes I can.. Slowly I realized I should have stayed down there and let it keep going. Stubborn me, always in control.. Next time I'll try to remain seated on the floor instead of moving to a chair.

Now I understand what they mean by "peform the mantra 108 times unless you fall into meditation". Fall into meditation? Who falls into meditation? Meditation is something you perform quietly by yourself and go deeper and deeper. It doesn't come looking for you and certainly isn't a hole that you fall into. WRONG!!! You fall into meditation when your brain shuts off and it doesn't work anymore. Now I understand that.


Total time: 1 hr 40 minutes
Total mantra repititions performed before falling into meditation: ~50
After-effects: tingling through my whole body, goosebumps, a pleasant happy sort of feeling. A part of me cannot believe what just happened and is trying to convince me that I made the whole thing up, like a dream. Yes, I too can lose control over my body..

But, this is a wonderful day. I've "fallen into meditation" and experienced kriyas (and lived to tell about it)


TI



Reply author: Suryakant
Replied on: Jul 14 2008 12:33:55 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

I was repeating the mantra and I could not remember anything of it. My mind went blank. I tried very hard to remember, to get back into it but I couldn't. I wasn't asleep. I tried again to engage my brain but it wouldn't work anymore. It shut down. I was in awe. I couldn't even think of what to do, where the flashlight was or the paper to read it from. So, I let go.
While practicing meditation on this path, I've let go into meditation many times, when my simple mental japa and third-eye concentration would gently fall away as the kundalini shakti carried me into meditation.

quote:
My body is mine.. :)
Nope, your body is God's.

quote:
I was not moving my head. There was a 'force' moving it but I couldn't tell where the 'force' was coming from.
It was coming from God.

quote:
Then my head turned over and back and was leaning on the left side. It was weird because I was not asleep, I was aware of everything, yet it was like being in an open space with different layers of my body and the body part of it was being gently moved to different positions. I could feel very fine tingles going up and down my body, up to my toes. There were also different subtle energy flows moving around in the outer denser body.

Next, my body fell forward so that my head was now between my legs. My arms flopped down and startled me. They just dropped like dead weights. That was a bit disconcerting. I knew, though, that this is fine. It was sort of enjoyable. The tingles were nice and subtle. I thought that I had fallen apart. I thought to myself, these must be kriyas. Interesting.
Similar to my own experience.

quote:
Now I understand what they mean by "peform the mantra 108 times unless you fall into meditation". Fall into meditation? Who falls into meditation? Meditation is something you perform quietly by yourself and go deeper and deeper. It doesn't come looking for you and certainly isn't a hole that you fall into. WRONG!!! You fall into meditation when your brain shuts off and it doesn't work anymore. Now I understand that.
Jai Ram!

quote:
Total time: 1 hr 40 minutes
Total mantra repititions performed before falling into meditation: ~50
After-effects: tingling through my whole body, goosebumps, a pleasant happy sort of feeling. A part of me cannot believe what just happened and is trying to convince me that I made the whole thing up, like a dream. Yes, I too can lose control over my body..

But, this is a wonderful day. I've "fallen into meditation" and experienced kriyas (and lived to tell about it)


TI




You have received a blessing that people once had to spend years seeking, hoping to find a yogi with both the power and the willingness to confer shaktipat initiation on them - an initiation you've received in the comfort of your own home. Jai Sita Ram!






Reply author: brushjw
Replied on: Jul 14 2008 9:49:28 PM
Message:

LOL TI, you are the bomb! I love you, brother.

Every time I start to read this thread I get lost in meditative absorption. Thank you for lighting the path for all of us. Your posts are extraordinarily clear and lucid.

Namaste!

Joe


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 14 2008 11:34:03 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by brushjw

LOL TI, you are the bomb! I love you, brother.

Every time I start to read this thread I get lost in meditative absorption. Thank you for lighting the path for all of us. Your posts are extraordinarily clear and lucid.

Namaste!

Joe


Hi Joe
Thanks for saying that.

I'm also glad that you are getting some value from Samuel Sagan's writings.


OM HRIM KRIM HUM SHRIM SUSHUMNA-PATENA

TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 15 2008 12:02:48 AM
Message:

Hi
This is day 2 after Shaktipat in Absentia and I went back to work as usual.

Around 10:00 am, I started getting pulled into the meditative state. The pull was not that strong, but it was noticeable. I did not pursue it. I did my regular practice for 1/2 hour at 11:00 am and felt a few energy flows but nothing notable occured.

After lunch, I was once again pulled into the meditative state, but this time is was quite strong. I just let it occur. I ended up with my head resting on my left shoulder/chest while sitting in my chair. It felt kind of like sleeping except that I was awake. I also noticed that every 6 or 7 minutes there was this white-light energy flow going through my body like a pulse. It was very relaxing, peaceful and enjoyable. I hope nobody saw me at my desk becaue they might have thought that I dozed off!

Well, the meditation tonight was a disaster. (I'm supposed to do 108 Buhta Shuddhi mantras every day for 10 days following shaktipat).

Gear: Tongue on palate, gentle sambhavi (no heroics or sucking in from the brow). Just trying to keep sambhavi is hard enough as the mantra is very long and complex.

After about 10 minutes of repeating the mantra, I started to get a steady stream of ecstatic conductivity coming up from my genital region. That was somewhat distracting. After about 40 minutes my whole tailbone section started to hurt pretty bad. I didn't want to get a chair again in case I fell off of it this time. So, I stuck it out for a while. After 1 1/2 hours I could not take the pain any longer and got up and took a break.

I had only done 52 mantra repetitions!!!

I had not gone into meditation, although a few times it sort of started but the ecstatic conductivity (which felt great) was very distracting. I've concluded that if you focus long enough on the brow (gentle focus) eventually ecstatic conductivity arises. It's just a matter of the amount of time spent doing it.. Eventually it will happen.

Anyway, I still had another 56 mantra repetitions to do. So, I got the chair, sat on it and went for another 1/2 hour. The ecstatic conductivity started up again and it's real hard to ignore. I did not hit the meditative state. I still have 30 mantras left to do later.

Total time: 2 hours
Vegetarianism today: Yes
Celibacy today: Yes
Meditation state: after lunch for 1/2 hour but not during the 108 mantras. (rats)
Noteable: Steady stream of ecstatic conductivity..

Better luck tomorrow.

OM Shanti

TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 15 2008 12:39:22 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Suryakant
You have received a blessing that people once had to spend years seeking, hoping to find a yogi with both the power and the willingness to confer shaktipat initiation on them - an initiation you've received in the comfort of your own home. Jai Sita Ram!


Hi Suryakant
Thank you for your confirmation and comments.
I believe the next 8 days are going to be quite a challenge for me..

OM BHUTA-SHRINGATA SHIRAHA SUSHUMNA-PATENA ...

TI


Reply author: AYPforum
Replied on: Jul 15 2008 10:18:42 AM
Message:

Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 17 2008 12:50:20 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by AYPforum

Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement



Hey, no problem! I'll just notify everyone that had links pointing to this thread that it was moved.


Sorry, I guess I've taken the fact that my thread was moved as some kind of value judgement on my choice of topics and personal practice.
Perhaps it was not intended as such but it does make me wonder about these other considerations:


Is there any guarantee that someone isn't going to come along and just delete this whole thread in the future?

If this thread was going to be deleted, would I be notified first so that I could save it?

Perhaps you could add a folder for "Personal Practice" or "Personal Diaries" on this forum with a guarantee that topics in it won't be moved and any deletions would require notifying the writer first?


Reply author: yogani
Replied on: Jul 17 2008 12:16:15 PM
Message:

Hi TI:

The topic and post links do not change when a topic is moved, and all new posts are highlighted with pink folders and appear in the active topics list where everyone can see, so nothing is lost. It has just been moved to where it belongs.

Your exploration is very interesting and educational for many, but it has little to do with the AYP system of practices, and can be confusing to newcomers looking for support in the AYP practices. That is why we have the "other systems" forum category, for all these other explorations and practice discussions, which are very valuable, but should be clearly distinguished from the AYP system. The "other systems" category accomplishes that. Also, if you are giving advice on practices, it does not hurt to mention whether that advice is consistent with the AYP system or not, if it is not obvious already. It helps minimize the confusion factor for the many who are reading here.

No topic would ever be deleted unless it was grossly offensive to the readership, and then only after multiple efforts by the moderators to address the offenses with those committing them. Your topic does not resemble that kind of scenario at all. It's a great topic, and now it is in the right place. So carry on...

All the best!

The guru is in you.


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 17 2008 3:54:25 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by yogani

Hi TI:

The topic and post links do not change when a topic is moved, and all new posts are highlighted with pink folders and appear in the active topics list where everyone can see, so nothing is lost. It has just been moved to where it belongs.



Hi Yogani
Thank you for the clarification.
Although internally nothing is lost during a 'move', any external links such favorites links added to browsers, links referring to topics from other forums (such as the Taobums) or correspondence via external emails will be no longer valid. (Thought I'd mention that..)

quote:


Your exploration is very interesting and educational for many, but it has little to do with the AYP system of practices, and can be confusing to newcomers looking for support in the AYP practices. That is why we have the "other systems" forum category, for all these other explorations and practice discussions, which are very valuable, but should be clearly distinguished from the AYP system. The "other systems" category accomplishes that. Also, if you are giving advice on practices, it does not hurt to mention whether that advice is consistent with the AYP system or not, if it is not obvious already. It helps minimize the confusion factor for the many who are reading here.


Will do.

quote:

No topic would ever be deleted unless it was grossly offensive to the readership, and then only after multiple efforts by the moderators to address the offenses with those committing them. Your topic does not resemble that kind of scenario at all. It's a great topic, and now it is in the right place. So carry on...

All the best!

The guru is in you.





Thanks again for the clarification and thank you for providing this forum. Although it is addictive, it is a great help to share concerns, practices, beliefs and stories with the other waves on the ocean.

OM SHANTI

TI


Reply author: yogani
Replied on: Jul 17 2008 4:53:38 PM
Message:

Hi TI:

The topic and post ID numbers do not change when a topic is moved, and the URL has not changed. This topic is ID=3691, and it will always be that. The forum number is not part of the topic URL. The database knows which forum category to go to by internal means.

If you find any previous links that are not working anymore, let me know. I'd be curious to find out why, since none of the URL info has changed. We have been moving topics for years, and as far as I know we have not lost a link yet.

Your ruminations are an interesting study, if not a clear path that anyone could follow, and I hope you will continue recording your journey. It will be interesting to see where you end up.

Where are we at now?

The guru is in you.


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 17 2008 5:41:52 PM
Message:

Hi
Day 3 (Tuesday) after Shaktipat in absentia
Vegetarianism: Yes
Celibacy: Yes
I received Dhyanyogi's " Shakti: An Introduction to Kundalini Maha Yoga" and "Death, Dying and Beyond" books in the mail today. I spend most of the day reading "Shakti".

This time during the 108 repetitions of the Bhuta Shuddhi I decided to start out sitting in a chair becaue I can only sit for 1 hour before the pain in the lower back is too great. Big mistake.

As I approached the 1 hour 20 minutes mark, I 'fell into meditation' again. My mind went blank and a magnetic force started pushing me sideways. I nearly fell off of the chair! Needless to say, that pulled me out of it and I was disgusted with myself.

I have noticed twice that I have had 'heat' in my lower abdomen on the left side; once while driving to work and once while driving back from work. It is a warm fine kind of heat and it is located from the surface of the skin going inwards for about 1 inch. The overall area is about 3 inches vertically. Also, the heat in my head, hands and arms is now a much 'finer' kind of heat compared to the Reiki heat balls I experienced during my Usui Reiki attunements.. And, it is very funny but the heat becomes more intense when I read certain posts or books..

That night, as I drifted off to sleep, I heard this loud bell in my right ear that sounded like someone had hit a large crystal singing bowl. Although it was very nice it startled me.

Day 4
Vegetarianism: Yes
Celibacy: Yes
I received "Light on Meditation" by Dhyanyogi today in the mail. I have read about 1/2 way. It is interesting that Dhyanyogi states that the breath is the thing to focus on since mantras will fall away once the mind is stilled (this is opposite to the I AM meditation theory where you do not focus on the breath during still meditation because, as Yogani states, you can go deeper if you do not tie the mantra to the breathing.).

I should mention, that the 108 repetitions of the Buhta Shuddhi mantra do not involve breath control nor kechari... just sambhavi (focus attention on the brow). I added 'tongue on palate' because there is a rather strong current which can be felt coming downwards through the tongue which I feel would otherwise not be running if I didn't put the tongue on the palate..

Since shaktipat my observations have been that the subvocalizing mind and memory shuts off after an hour or more of mantra repetition(Bhuta Shuddhi) and you are left in a state of awareness in which you can observe different parts of your inside space and bodies. However, I do not believe that I'm going very deep as I can still 'think' at that level and shift my perception around. I also feel like I'm dreaming or pretending when those parts of my mind shut off, sort of like I'm making the whole thing up.

For this day's meditation I decided to stay sitting on the asan on the floor. I'm getting better at running through the mantra. After about 1 hour and 20 minutes the pain in my tail bone and hips was getting pretty bad so I moved my legs out straight and continued with the mantra repetitions in that posture, sitting on the floor. After a while, I moved my legs to a half lotus. Then, I went through a 'fall to meditation' but I found it easy to start up the mantra again so I did. Next, the magnetic force started pushing me onto my left side and my body slowly made an arc until my head was on the floor in front. All the while I was repeating the mantra.

Then, this voice said to me "Be Quiet". So I quit repeating the mantra and drifted off in that position. I had done 82 repetitions..

I remained in that position for a while. Again, it was not a deep kind of dark and silent state. It is more like dreaming without the dreams or just kind of sitting there.

While I was sitting there, I did notice that the two lights were becoming more pronounced (one at the brow and one more in the center of the head). However, I wasn't expecting any lights because I'm thinking that the purpose of the Buhta Shuddhi mantra is to repeat the mantra 108 times in order to connect the sushumna to Shiva, dry the air body and burn the causal body. If I want to see lights, I would use another technique, like the "I AM" meditation coupled with extreme relaxtion.. or just focus on the lights Maybe the lights eventually come no matter what you do?


(Note: I haven't had the runs for 3 days now!!! Perhaps it is the vegetarian diet or maybe I'm being healed??? It is so nice. I mean, it has been 2 years of IBS every day. You can't imagine!! I was getting very good at the root lock )


TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 17 2008 10:42:09 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by yogani

Hi TI:

The topic and post ID numbers do not change when a topic is moved, and the URL has not changed. This topic is ID=3691, and it will always be that. The forum number is not part of the topic URL. The database knows which forum category to go to by internal means.

If you find any previous links that are not working anymore, let me know. I'd be curious to find out why, since none of the URL info has changed. We have been moving topics for years, and as far as I know we have not lost a link yet.

Your ruminations are an interesting study, if not a clear path that anyone could follow, and I hope you will continue recording your journey. It will be interesting to see where you end up.

Where are we at now?

The guru is in you.




Hi Yogani
You are right! The link, although it somehow changed format, still works the same. Sorry, I should have examined it more closely.
Here is the original link:

http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3691

Here is the link after the move:

http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....&whichpage=5

This is good news. My assumption was erroneous. I apologize..


TI


Reply author: yogani
Replied on: Jul 17 2008 11:53:10 PM
Message:

Hi TI:

The first link you gave is for page 4 of the topic. The next one is for page 5. If you copy the one for this page, it will be page 6. Moving right along.

These link variations have nothing to do with the topic moving.

If you want to make a link to a particular post, click the little globe in the top bar of the post and it will give it to you.

The guru is in you.


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 18 2008 12:18:37 AM
Message:

Hi
I'm not sure what to call this post: A Taste of Heaven, I Remember Heaven, I Went to Heaven or WOW!!!

First off, I want to say that I love all of you: Yogani, [emc], Katrine, Kadak, Suryakant, David, Jim -and his karma, Divineis, Christi, Shanti, Joe, Dave and eveyone in this forum and the whole world. I truly hope that you too will remember Heaven

Day 5 After Shaktipat in absentia
Vegetarianism: Yes
Celibacy: Yes

I started my meditation of the 108 Bhuta Shuddhi mantras at 5:30 pm tonight. It is better to meditate when you are hungry. There is more heat when you are hungry (but not too hungry).

I sat on the floor on my asan, did 50 rapid deep breaths, fixed my eyes between my brow and put my tongue on the palate.

The mantra was coming easier and I was performing it faster. I was bound and determined to get through all 108 repetitions in one sitting. I started one repetition very slowly to make sure I had the right pronunciations and that I remembered all the words. Then I sped it up again. After a few repetitions of subvocalizing the mantra, I remembered that vocalizing is strong, subvocalizing is stronger but the most powerful thing is to mentally think the mantra. So, I started to think the mantra over and over again, very quickly.

At one point my thoughts became a continuous river or stream of light that I could visualize and see. I had seen thoughts before during meditation so this was sort of normal for me.

The meditation was going fine. I would repeat the mantra, realize I was subvocalizing and then try to shut off the subvocalization by going higher into the mental realm. When I get into the mental realm, my mind can travel very quickly and effortlessly. It's the subvocalization that slows you down. I struggled for a while to stop the subvocalization and succeeded a few minutes at a time. Like greased lightning!! The mantra, clear, crips and clean was sailing by and I was making progress. I would be finished all 108 mantra repetitions in one sitting. That was my goal.

Through the meditation, I would fall back down into subvocalization for some of the mantra's sentences, but then I would catch myself and move back up into the mental. As I was doing this, I noticed that the light at the brow was getting closer and closer (again). Then my hip started to hurt so I extended my right leg out, took my bearings and then started to repeat the mantra again in that position. I contemplated the possibility of meditation in strange postures.. After a few minutes, I moved my leg back into easy posture, straightened my back and proceeded with the repetitions. I was doing pretty good, I was at about 3/4 the way through my mala in 1 hour and 10 minutes.

Ok, back to serious meditation. I started to repeat the mantra, subvocalizing it, then taking it higher to a mental plane (thanks to all that silent AYP "I AM" still meditation practice), then drop back down, then up. I started playing with placing the mantra at different levels (subvocalization, mental repetition, light vision repetition (seeing the words), back down and then up. I was getting pretty good at it. I also experimented with stopping breathing to see if that would help place the mantra. It did to some degree but I decided on more relaxation. I was getting happy that I figured out how to do that (move up and down the levels of density).

Then I remembered about what Yogani said about allowing the mantra to become very quiet and whispering the mantra. So, that is what I did. I did that right into the light that I could see at my brow. Lightning speed. The mantra sailed by and I got happier with my newfound expertise controlling the frequency, placement and potency of the mantra. I realized that through these long arduous meditation sessions, repeating the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra, I was taking my level of conscious control or thought to a new high, which could possibly become persistent.

I started to tingle from the happiness. The waves came up from my arms and legs and went upward. I kept placing the mantra into the light between my brows, very quietly whispering it silently, quickly, pushing it into the light at the brow.. That's the whole point of the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra, to join the sushumna to the highest Shiva.


What happened next is beyond belief. I'm so shaking right now.

All of a sudden, I was in Heaven. I was in a cloud of light pinks, whites and blues. And!!! Jesus was there, standing quite far away, wearing a white gown with a red robe over it. That's all I could see. All of a sudden I remembered that I had been there before, before this life time. I loved it there. I love it so much there. You would too. I remembered being there before. It was like this hole cleared up in me or a veil was removed and I can now remember being there before this life time. I was there before and I talked to Jesus before. This time, I did not talk or do anything. The recollection of having been there before, before I was born was so amazing to me it took me a while to weather the impact.

It was so nice there, you can't believe it. There is no fear. It feels like life was just a dream and is so far away and meaningless that it doesn't matter. It feels so safe and warm and loving there. You just can't believe it. It makes earth feel like hell. I've realized that this life is just a dream. We don't die. We are all part of God. I started to cry. Not cry, but this very deep howl started coming out of me. I didn't want to leave. Loud sobs, uncontrollable wails. Buckets of snot streamed out. I embarrased myself. I wonder what the neighbours might think if they heard me! I went through 20 kleenexes blowing my nose.

I looked at Jesus standing quite far away. Then, I remembered being there before a second time! I remember talking with Jesus and choosing to come back to help others. Then Jesus said "You chose to come back to help others". It was all so familiar. I remember now!! I'm astounded, flabberghasted, amazed, dumbfounded, you name it. WOW. Like big time deja vue that you can't dispute.

At this moment, I'm starting to remember three lifetimes that I've had, and they all ended (or began) with interludes in Heaven. I'm tingling and I have waves coming up into my head like I have the jitters or something.

I truly hope that everyone can experience Heaven and truly realize that this life is just a dream that will go away. Don't seek the darkness, seek the light.

I need a hot bath as I'm kind of cold now. That in itself is unbelievable.


Dear God in Heaven. Please show all of the people of the earth a glimpse of Heaven. Please remove the veil, if only for a moment, that they may truly know the love and peace, joy and stillness that awaits them after this dreary life. Amen. Om Shanti.

Dear God in Heaven. Please show all of the people of the earth a glimpse of Heaven. Please remove the veil, if only for a moment, that they may truly know the love and peace, joy and stillness that awaits them after this dreary life. Amen. Om Shanti.

Dear God in Heaven. Please show all of the people of the earth a glimpse of Heaven. Please remove the veil, if only for a moment, that they may truly know the love and peace, joy and stillness that awaits them after this dreary life. Amen. Om Shanti.

Bless you!

TI





Reply author: Suryakant
Replied on: Jul 18 2008 12:45:52 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

And, it is very funny but the heat becomes more intense when I read certain posts or books..
Hi TI,

What happens to the heat when you read/view/hear each of the following items:

(1) A quote from Shri Dhyanyogi Madhusudandasji in which he describes what his Realization felt like: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=4152

(2) A video of Shri Dhyanyogi Madhusudandasji leading a Jai Sita Ram chant: http://youtube.com/watch?v=PSM69_InoXI

(3) The Amazon listing of Shri Dhyanyogi Madhusudandasji's biography, "This House Is On Fire": http://www.amazon.com/This-House-Fi...55077&sr=8-1

(4) A video of Shri Anandi Ma dancing in bhav samadhi: http://youtube.com/watch?v=vouXD7HMSuo

(5) Patrick Bernhardt's album "Amor Immortalis": http://www.legalsounds.com/download.../album_36580

Namaste,
Suryakant



Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 18 2008 11:42:34 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Suryakant
What happens to the heat when you read/view/hear each of the following items:
...



Hi Suryakant
I have never tried going to look for heat, it just sort of happens and then I become aware of it. The hottest heat I've gotten in the past was from UG Krishnamurti's "The Natural State". Oh no, I'm starting to get that electrical charge and heat right now just thinking of it..
If you want to read it, it is free online at:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Natural_State


1,2,3 I have seen before and bought the book. I actually own "This House is on Fire" (thanks again for that one :) , "Shakti", "Death and Beyond" and "Light on Meditation" . I'm just finishing that last book today. I found a part in "Light on Meditation" that said that you are supposed to be aware when you go into samadhi, otherwise it does not benefit you. If nothing is relayed to the conscious mind, there is no purpose and the experience is wasted. That explains the part of where I feel like I'm either imagining the kriyas or lucidly dreaming them. The awareness is built in. Interesting.. ! I wonder how that relates to the AYP deep silence?

4 Thank you very much. I enjoyed watching that. There is also another youtube video of Shri Anandi Ma praying for world peace that was right next to it:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gPVRHRY2...ture=related

5) My tastes in music are Indian or anything Pink Floyd. I love listening to Deva Premal and Prem Joshua. I also love this video because I get blessed everytime I watch it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWnh5Jq8Cjs

Thanks for sharing.

TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 19 2008 12:06:10 AM
Message:

Hi
Day 6 after Shaktipat in Absentia
Vegetarianism: Yes
Celibacy: Yes

The Bhuta Shuddhi mantra meditation was good. I completed all 108 repetitions in one sitting. I did not fall into meditation. My buttocks/tailbone did not hurt very much. I adjusted my legs twice and ended up sitting in half lotuses. The entire meditation took 1 hour 45 minutes.

The only strange thing that I would report is that during the meditation, I felt a surge of confidence and energy, like I was on top of things and more powerful. Perhaps I withdrew a bit from things because, to be quite honest, I'm still digesting my visit to Heaven from yesterday and I don't think I could have handled another gut wrenching, snot drenching experience so soon after yesterday's event.

TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 19 2008 11:44:18 PM
Message:

Hi
Day 7 after shaktipat in absentia.

This morning I was sitting on the bathroom floor having my morning nicotine fix. After a few minutes of just sitting there, I noticed in my third eye area that the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra was still going. It caught my attention so I focused in on it. Sure enough, it was repeating by itself. The strange thing was that when I focused on it, there was this bright shiny colorful plane of existence in the same area! It felt like I was looking right into Heaven (the textures and colors were very similar). So, I proceeded to meditate on it. It was a strange thing, because it was like I could think of someone and I could see events in their life transpiring before my eyes. I'm not sure what to make of that.

I finished the "Light On Meditation" book by Dhyanyogi. Concepts that struck me are these:

-He says that kundalini is really an upward flow of prana through the sushumna.

-He says that vibrating and shaking is how kundalini opens the pathways so that prana can flow.

-The book is so filled with descriptions of visions from meditators (sadhaks -students of meditation) of spiritual beings that I feel right at home. Seeing the visions is a normal thing and a sign that all is moving right along.

-The book contains an excellent description of all of things that could possibly happen to you as kundalini rises.

-Warm milk with some butter or orange juice is supposed to appease the heat. (I haven't tried that because I don't like milk and orange juice is too high-carb for me).

-The way he describes giving shaktipat and it's effects on the recipients now reminds me of the 'Western' churches that "Praise The Lord" and slay people in the spirit. Have you ever watched a pastor walk up to someone and touch them on the forehead and then the person falls down and passes out? Hmmm.. I wonder what is going on there. I can see now where people might assume that the Holy Ghost could be kundalini. However, I've seen the Holy Ghost and it looks like a pair of white wings floating in the air; it shoots beams of white light at people, so I still wonder what is going on there..


Meditation:
Today's meditation was horrible. I started getting bad gas and the runs at the start of it. I had to take two breaks during the process. I did not 'fall into meditation' but I did experience a thick column of a kind of white wavy energy moving upwards for a short time. I completed all 108 repetitions of the mantra in 2 hours and 30 minutes.

Vegetarianism: Yes
Celibacy: Yes


TI


Reply author: riptiz
Replied on: Jul 20 2008 8:00:56 PM
Message:

Hi TI,
The state you are falling into is actually samadhi and which I 'fall' into almost every time I meditate or do japa now.The Bhutta Shuddi mantra is indeed a very powerful cleansing mantra and it took me 3 days to remember it and pronounce it correctly.Just a tip. If you fall into samadhi and don't complete the 108 rounds it is normally considered that you have completed them as you fell into samadhi.When I was in India in Jan 08 I had to do 2 full rounds of the Bhutta Shuddi mantra and 44 rounds of the guru ram mantra daily. We did this in 2 sessions, morning and afternoon.When you drift into samadhi it normally follows that you lose count or drop the mala beads.heheheheh
L&L
Dave


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 20 2008 11:07:44 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by riptiz

Hi TI,
The state you are falling into is actually samadhi and which I 'fall' into almost every time I meditate or do japa now.The Bhutta Shuddi mantra is indeed a very powerful cleansing mantra and it took me 3 days to remember it and pronounce it correctly.Just a tip. If you fall into samadhi and don't complete the 108 rounds it is normally considered that you have completed them as you fell into samadhi.When I was in India in Jan 08 I had to do 2 full rounds of the Bhutta Shuddi mantra and 44 rounds of the guru ram mantra daily. We did this in 2 sessions, morning and afternoon.When you drift into samadhi it normally follows that you lose count or drop the mala beads.heheheheh
L&L
Dave


Hi Dave
Thanks for the tip! Yes, I am aware of that but it does say on the "Instructions after Shaktipat" that it is better if one can do as many repetitions as possible (rather than fall into meditation every time, for example).
Wow, 2 rounds of the Bhuta Shuddhi. That must have cleared you out for many lifetimes !!


TI



Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 20 2008 11:36:04 PM
Message:

Hi

Day 8 after Shaktipat in Absentia

Vegetarianism: yes
Celibacy: yes

I have been seeing visions of people's faces at different times during the day during regular activities.

I did the regular AYP practice/meditation in the morning. A few visions appeared and I ended up working on relaxing more during the meditation.

The 108 mantra repetition meditation went fine today. After just two repetitions, my mind blanked out and it was a real struggle to pick up the mantra again. I figured that two repetitions was way too few to justify missing the connecting and cleansing from the mantra that a full session brings. As I was telling Dave, it says on the CD that it is better to do the mantra as opposed to just falling into meditation. Maybe I have this wrong, I don't know. I don't think I'm fighting 'falling into meditation' that much, I just figure there will be plenty of time for falling into meditation after the 10 days are up.

There were two other moments where I lost the mantra and then picked it up again. I guess I do what I do at the time.

I completed all 108 repetitions of the mantra. I also slowed it down a bit so I could be more mindful of the meaning behind the words. This time, I seemed to be putting more attention on focusing my gaze between the brows. At one point I think I was too low so I aimed higher, then lower. Sometimes I think I play too much and should be more mindful of the mantra and it's meaning; connecting the Shushumna to "Parama Shiva Pade" (Shiva in the highest).

Towards the end of the meditation I started seeing a pale colored disk and two beams of white light coming out of my eyes, connecting to the disk. As I ignored it it became brighter and clearer.. After the meditation was finished, I spent another 15 minutes relaxing and just looking at the disk and beams from my eyes.

The disk looks like a moon, pale white, with soft blue indentations on it. The beams of light comes from my eyes, one beam from each eye. After just watching the scene for about 10 minutes, the light started getting brighter and brighter and some yellow rays started coming out of one side of the moon. Now, two hours after the meditation, the scene is still there. Persistent vision.. Hmm.


Total time: 2 hours 15 min.
Two days to go.


TI


Reply author: brushjw
Replied on: Jul 21 2008 9:46:31 PM
Message:

TI,

Just wanted to write you a quick note to thank you for your inspiring posts. Bless you for bringing the Light into my life!

namaste,
Joe


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 22 2008 12:54:02 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by brushjw

TI,

Just wanted to write you a quick note to thank you for your inspiring posts. Bless you for bringing the Light into my life!

namaste,
Joe



Hi Joe
Thank you for mentioning that.

TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 22 2008 1:13:34 PM
Message:

Hi
Day 9 after Shaktipat in absentia

Vegetarianism: yes
Celibacy: yes

Today's Bhuta Shuddhi mantra meditation was strange. After 1 hour 20 minutes, I 'fell into meditation' so I let it happen. My body slowly bent leftwards, circled round and I ended up sitting with my head nearly touching the ground again, stretching my spine. I could see Dhyanyogi and Shri Anandi Ma below me. I'm not sure what they were doing. I could see that my thoughts were still running. It feels like you split apart into various components which keep running. It also feels like I'm imagining the whole thing, daydreaming or pretending. Perhaps my conception of samadhi is different from the actual state?

Anyway, I stayed in that position for 10 minutes or so. During that time I was going to abandon it and start the remaining mantra repetitions, but a voice said to stay down. So I did. After a while, I just quit; something in me wasn't convinced that this was doing anything. I also noticed that the light was a lot closer and bigger than before.

After that I was disgusted and had bad feelings or guilt and remorse for not completing the mantra repetitions. I had 30 left to do.

Later that night I sat down again and finished all 30 repetitions of the mantra, taking it slow, savouring each sentence, the meaning behind the sentences, visualizing the objective, getting lost. I fell into meditation again. A magnetic force made me move my head a bit to the right and then I ended up with my head on the floor in front of me again. Stretching the spine. Always stretching the spine. I stayed like that for a while, sat up and then finished off the last 3 repetitions. The light was closer and fluffier now but I did not pay much attention to it. I went to bed, still feeling disgusted, hornery and miserable.

I noticed that I was getting a lot heat in the hands, arms, top of the head and face.

Total time meditating: 1 hour 40 minutes

Oh, forgot to mention: I noticed that it feels good to rub my tailbone area of the spine. It feels ecstatic to do so. I noticed this in the shower this morning.

Also, twice yesterday, I had a tingling tickling sensation right at my navel. It felt like ants crawling around. I had to scratch it.

Right now, I have the shakes. They started about 1 hour ago and haven't let up. My whole body is vibrating. It seems to be coming from my abdomen. It's going through my legs, arms, body.. everywhere..


TI


Reply author: riptiz
Replied on: Jul 22 2008 5:04:14 PM
Message:

Hi TI,
Samadhi is many things and whatever your experience is correct for you.If you are attempting to prevent yourself from drifting into samadhi , then you are controlling your practices which just as in the AYP guidelines, is incorrect.You simply do the japa and the results are simply the results.
I find now that 99% of the time I fall into samadhi almost immediately when I start meditation.In fact I can put myself into the state of samadhi at will.Although the cd may say to attempt to keep 'awake' during the anhustan period of japa, when Anandi Ma was a young girl she would be in states of samadhi for days at a time.My teacher was a member of the same group of students as her during childhood in Mumbai and knew her well in those days.BTW you will find the energy from shakti is much more refined and smoother than Reiki, and it also penetrates deeper in my experience as well as being more powerful due to greater purification.
L&L
Dave


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 22 2008 11:21:12 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by riptiz

Hi TI,
Samadhi is many things and whatever your experience is correct for you.If you are attempting to prevent yourself from drifting into samadhi , then you are controlling your practices which just as in the AYP guidelines, is incorrect.You simply do the japa and the results are simply the results.
I find now that 99% of the time I fall into samadhi almost immediately when I start meditation.In fact I can put myself into the state of samadhi at will.Although the cd may say to attempt to keep 'awake' during the anhustan period of japa, when Anandi Ma was a young girl she would be in states of samadhi for days at a time.My teacher was a member of the same group of students as her during childhood in Mumbai and knew her well in those days.BTW you will find the energy from shakti is much more refined and smoother than Reiki, and it also penetrates deeper in my experience as well as being more powerful due to greater purification.
L&L
Dave


Hi Dave
Thanks for your comments, Dave.
I keep thinking about the different levels of samadhi.. but I hear what you are saying. Perhaps the state of that type of samadhi is at a finer level too where you become aware of more things rather than becoming singlepointed to the exclusion of awareness of surroundings?

Before I started the shaktipat I was practicing heavy relaxation during meditation which I believe was getting me through the dream state to a deeper level. I'll have to examine that approach now.. :)

So Dave, do you astral travel? Did you take Shri Anandi Ma's course on astral travel?


TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 23 2008 12:07:17 AM
Message:

Hi
Day 10 of Shaktipat in Absentia (last day)

Vegetarianism: yes
Celibacy: yes

This is the last day of my 10 day post shaktipat initiation. I've succeeded in performing the required mala of 108 Bhuta Shuddhi mantra repetitions (or until 'falling into meditation' which was rare, perhaps I prevented some because I did not realize the subtelty of that state). My next task is to perform the required malas of "Ram Ramaya Namaha", which could be postponed until after the 10 days if required, according to the instructions.

Todays meditation: I was an hour late getting home from work due to an extended meeting and was feeling a bit hungry and tired. I immediately sat down in my place of meditation and started the mantra repetition. All was going well, not too much pain in the lower back and I decided to slow it down. This was the last day and I wanted to be in the meditation rather than speed through it.

I performed the required 50 deep abdominal breaths, picked up the mala and started reciting. After about 1/2 hour, I moved my leg position as my left leg was falling asleep.

Today, it occured to me from what [emc] posted on another thread, that Jesus and Buddha are in the higher planes, vibrating at very fast rates. I also came to the realization that, if you can do mantra repetition subvocally, and then mentally, you might be able to do it emotionally and intuitively as well. I mean, instead of one voice going, you get as many auric bodies repeating the mantra at the same time as you can, so they all fall into meditation..

So, I started experimenting a bit.

It is too hard to experiment and repeat that mantra at the same time. I started messing up the mantra so I quit that. But before I quit experimenting, I tried to bring my vibrations as high as I could go. I 'arrived' in a place with pastel-violet clouds and golden light shining down. But, even that was too distracting so I abandoned the experiment and went back to straight mantra repetition.

After 1 hour I was starting to see the lights again, which I ignored. After 1 hour and 20 minutes, I started to see this red light in the third eye. It looked like a little red arc, pointing downwards. I thought it was interesting because I don't recall seeing crimson dark red light there before, on it's own.

I then ignored the red light and went back to mantra repetition, perhaps sucking in a little more from the forehead to help cut out distractions.

As I repeated the mantra, the red light scene grew. It now resembled a few red rounded clouds like one might see during a sunset in a tunnel of clouds. I went back to repeating the mantra.

After another 5 minutes, I looked at the third eye and the red scene had become very clear. IT WAS A RED ROSE!!! AND, SHRI ANANDI MA's FACE WAS NEXT TO IT. SHE WAS SMILING AT ME!!! I also noticed that Dhyanyogi was not there. This was a personal gift from Shri Anandi Ma to me.

The vision was very clear, bright and amazing, like when I went to Heaven. I was overcome with emotion and started crying. I felt like I had successfully passed the 10 day audition and was being rewarded with a rose. I did have 30 repetitions left but Shri Anandi Ma said to "let it go". I dropped the mala and just cried. Tingles were flowing all around me. I was so grateful and I felt so special.

It is amazing to see someone give you a rose via third eye vision. And, someone alive too! A graduation gift.

This world is full of amazing things and experiences. I wish everyone could experience them too.

I thank you Shri Anandi Ma for showing me that parts of Heaven exist here on earth. I also thank you for Shaktipat and for providing me with the knowledge and understanding to further enhance my spiritual quest. Thank you.


OM SHANTI

TI


Reply author: Suryakant
Replied on: Jul 23 2008 11:15:33 AM
Message:

Jai Sita Ram!
Jai Jai Sita Ram!
Jai Sita Ram!
Jai Jai Sita Ram!


Reply author: riptiz
Replied on: Jul 23 2008 12:39:58 PM
Message:

Hi TI,
I do not astral travel consciously and have not taken any courses.Shri Anandi Ma is not my guru although Dhyanyogi was my guru before I met Dhyanyogi Omdasji who is from the same lineage.Dhyanyogi was my guru from the other side and I have been blessed by his energies several times in meditation as well as from his mahasamadhi where his energies still radiate greatly.
L&L
Dave


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 23 2008 10:12:32 PM
Message:

Hi Dave and Suryakant
Thank you for your comments.

I was wondering... in the "Shakti" book, Dhyanyogi says:

"There are 101 types of nadis, the channels through which prana flows in the subtle body. One called Hita is of particular significance here, for just as a road connects two towns, this nadi is connected to the Sun and energy is collected from the Sun through it. By concentrating on this nadi, once can achieve various powers, like seeing things very far away, having the ability to do healing, having visions of gods, saints or previous incarnations."

I have experienced some of the phenomenon described in the quote.

Apart from seeing visions of saints etc, the one that I clearly remember is when I was sitting by the river on a sunny day and there were two sun bathers about 200 yards away. I was performing some pranayama and 'seeing' the lovely natural setting with my eyes closed. When I thought of the sun bathers, a very clear image of them appeared to me, like I had a telescope set on them. I mean, a section of my visual area magically opened up into this round circle and inside the circle, I could see them with crystal clear resolution.

I found this on "MIND--ITS MYSTERIES AND CONTROL" by SRI SWAMI SIVANANDA:

"When the mind enters the Hita Nadi, which proceeds from the heart and surrounds the great membrane round the heart, which is as thin as a hair divided into thousand parts and is filled with the minute essence of various colours of white, black, yellow and red, the individual soul or Jiva (ego) experiences the state of dream (Svapna Avastha)."

Do either of you know what the Hita nadi is and have you taken any courses on how to tap into it? I'm thinking that it is as simple as 'feeling or perceiving with the heart'. Could that be?

Thanks.
OM SHANTI


TI


Reply author: Suryakant
Replied on: Jul 24 2008 12:06:27 AM
Message:

Hi TI,

I've read Shri Dhyanyogi Madhusudandasji's book "Shakti", so I've probably read about the Hita nadi at some point, but I don't recall studying anything specific about it. It's possible that the Hita nadi might have been mentioned during pranayama training at one or more of the retreats I've attended.

Speaking for myself, I'm not particularly interested in tapping into specific nadis for the purpose of exploring siddhis. If God and Guru want siddhis to manifest through me, they will.

Sita Ram,
Suryakant


Reply author: riptiz
Replied on: Jul 24 2008 11:43:03 AM
Message:

Hi TI,
I am not familiar with the Hita nadi but will ask my teacher when I speak with her if I remember.I can tell you that when scanning others the energy shoots from the third eye and is reflected back to you with the information.Maybe this has something to do with what you are asking.BTW, Anhustan is not restricted to following shaktipat but is normally carried out four times a year.You have been instructed differently to I as I do the Butta Shuddi repetitions follwed by the guru mantra reps daily, to balance the energies.Be aware that the BS is a very powerful cleansing mantra and you will suffer cleansing symptoms which on AYP would be regarded as overdoing it.
L&L
Dave


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 25 2008 10:41:27 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Suryakant
If God and Guru want siddhis to manifest through me, they will.



Hi Suryakant
Please do not take this comment the wrong way. I am not trying to offend you. I appreciate your correspondence and help and I admire your praise and devotion to God in the highest.

The little tiny thing I'm confused about is this: Are we not all part of God? Correct me if I am wrong but your statement makes it sound like God is separate from you.

RAM RAMAYA NAMAHA
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 26 2008 12:16:17 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by riptiz

Hi TI,
I am not familiar with the Hita nadi but will ask my teacher when I speak with her if I remember.


Hi Dave
I would appreciate that.

quote:

I can tell you that when scanning others the energy shoots from the third eye and is reflected back to you with the information.Maybe this has something to do with what you are asking.



I am familiar with third eye scans. They are kind of like a TV camera with a wide angle lens and sort of 'different' colors. I believe that at the time when I experience binocular vision I was viewing the natural surroundings by feeling it with my heart, taking it all in.

My reason for asking is this: if there are specific techniques that are taught to bring about siddhis then surely anyone can learn them. Shri Anandi Ma has a course on Astral Travel and a course on opening the chakras. Perhaps even with kundalini active there is still learning and effort which have to be applied in order to add some magic to this life?

If this life is but a dream then we all should be able to do things that we also do in our dreams, in this life. It may be a simple matter of technique and energy level. However, do not get me wrong. I am not actively seeking Siddhis for Siddhis sake. Jesus said "Seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven and all other things shall be added onto you" (or something like that).

But I'd like to verify them when they do occur and see if there is a little mystery there waiting to be discovered. I for one do not believe that all the spiritual mysteries have been discovered.

quote:


BTW, Anhustan is not restricted to following shaktipat but is normally carried out four times a year.You have been instructed differently to I as I do the Butta Shuddi repetitions follwed by the guru mantra reps daily, to balance the energies.



The requested routine for the 10 days following shaktipat is 108 BS mantras and 5 malas of the RAM RAMAYA NAMAHA mantra.

Yes, according to my instructions, I could do the 10 day 108 BS mantras once a year. Also, it is allowed to do the BS for 10 days followed by the RAM RAMAYA NAMAHA mantra after the 10 days if one so chooses due to time limitations. After that, you are supposed to do three BS mantras and three RAM RAMAYA NAMAHA mantras before every daily meditation. However, in the "Light On Meditation" book by Dhyanyogi, he says that the 108 BS mantras can be done for 40 days in a row.

quote:

Be aware that the BS is a very powerful cleansing mantra and you will suffer cleansing symptoms which on AYP would be regarded as overdoing it.



Self pacing is a good thing and everyone should know their limitations. And if they choose to surpass their limitations, they may or might not suffer the consequences.

The 108 10 day BS mantra made me realize that I'm capable of a lot more and that perhaps I should push myself a little harder. So far I have not had any adverse reactions to the 108 10 day BS, but (as Yogani and other have pointed out) sometimes there is an after effect from certain practices which comes a few days later. All is well so far.

The only thing that is bothering me is that I kind of miss the effort, drive, discipline that I had during those 10 days, like I was going to do that no matter what.

And, I've started to think that mantra repetition is a hoax. I keep thinking that it is not the mantra that does anything, but the fact that producing any kind of continual vocal, subvocal, mental, emotional, mental or intuitive 'tone' causes the lower tan tien and the sacral chakra to kick in and start pouring out energy. And the intensity is relative to the components and effort that a person puts into the sustained thought or tone. And the more effort you put in, the more the breathing arrests itself.

Last night I tried this experiment. I sat in a meditative posture and practiced super-relaxing. Then, I started subvocalizing "oooo" as one long continual sound with no breaks in it. I just kept it going.

What happens is that the lower tan tien and the perineum automatically tighten and release energy (prana, chi or whatever). You can't stop it. Any thought or feeling activates it. If you can't feel this effect, you aren't relaxed enough. The more effort you put into the thought or feeling, the more energy is released. If you even force it and try as hard as you can, the breathing suspends but the energy still pours out (or into the body). This is what I've learned from the BS Mantra.


Next, I added as many mind voices to it as I could. Then I added love and emotion to it. Then, I added ultra quiet silence and deep intuition. By the end of 5 minutes I was cooking myself in heat and the light was descending closer and closer.

Perhaps I am a victim of Krishnamurti's idea that there is no culture in energy flows; it is just something man invented. Or, perhaps we change the energy flow and customize it by attributing meaning to the mantra? Or perhaps it has to do with just frequencies?

I also tried taking the "ooooo" to very low and very high frequencies, ultra high, sonic, beyond light, way up there. I think it cleanses the various subtle bodies and reveals where you need cleansing because certain frequencies are much louder and more resonant than others. As always, I did not overdo this (self pacing) but it is a very interesting phenomenon just the same.

What I think is this. The lower tan tien and testicles/perineum are an electric socket. You can plug in a toaster, a hair dryer, a shaver or anything you'd like in there. (the electrical applicances are the mantras). What results is a flow of energy that produces a specific effect. The more things you plug in, the more energy comes out. If you plug in one giant electrical cable and hook the other end up to Heaven, lookout!!!


Well, enough of that...


TI




Reply author: Suryakant
Replied on: Jul 26 2008 11:31:22 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

quote:
Originally posted by Suryakant
If God and Guru want siddhis to manifest through me, they will.



Hi Suryakant
Please do not take this comment the wrong way. I am not trying to offend you. I appreciate your correspondence and help and I admire your praise and devotion to God in the highest.

The little tiny thing I'm confused about is this: Are we not all part of God? Correct me if I am wrong but your statement makes it sound like God is separate from you.

RAM RAMAYA NAMAHA
TI



Hi TI

No offense taken, my friend - no offense taken at all.

The words "God" and "Guru", when used in the way that I used them in the posting to which you refer, act as a brilliantly shining spotlight within my consciousness, illuminating the places in my consciousness which still harbor attachment to the illusion of separateness.

Speaking only for myself, I find that skillfully chosen bits of dualism chip away quite effectively at the illusion of separateness.

The words "God" and "Guru", when used as I used them, act as a homeopathic treatment of the disease of dualism.

Namaste (an affirmation of non-dualism),
Suryakant


Reply author: riptiz
Replied on: Jul 27 2008 6:19:02 PM
Message:

Hi TI,
You make some interesting points which I have also asked myself at times.If you take a look at Matrix Energetics you will see that it's all quantum physics and intent is the key.My belief is that the scriptures wrote of the experiences and recorded them in the only way that the sages and yogis knew how to.As the belief is that our communication is not advanced enough to explain Quantum Physics even to ourselves!(how often do you have meditation or daily life experiences that puzzle you and that you cannot put into words?)I believe this was the only way to record them.
If you look at Reiki and the symbols for power, distant healing or simply attuning another,then you will find they are not actually necessary and some believe they were not a part of the original system but were introduced by Dr. Usui for students who could not grasp the concept of intent.I have never used symbols for attuning others and have attuned many all at the same time using intent with no difference in results, except that Reiki 'masters' who have experienced the energy of shakti have found they could not handle the higher vibrations and were severely cleansing! OOOOps sorry!!!!!
In my experience using fast japa repetition creates a large amount of energy and who cares what the cause is as long as it brings progress? You will find that inner guidance will lead you to new techniques and abilities.Normally siddhis are not sought or taught as they are considered a distraction to the path and one gains these naturally.
L&L
Dave


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 27 2008 10:15:10 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by riptiz

Hi TI,
You make some interesting points which I have also asked myself at times.If you take a look at Matrix Energetics you will see that it's all quantum physics and intent is the key.My belief is that the scriptures wrote of the experiences and recorded them in the only way that the sages and yogis knew how to.As the belief is that our communication is not advanced enough to explain Quantum Physics even to ourselves!(how often do you have meditation or daily life experiences that puzzle you and that you cannot put into words?)I believe this was the only way to record them.
If you look at Reiki and the symbols for power, distant healing or simply attuning another,then you will find they are not actually necessary and some believe they were not a part of the original system but were introduced by Dr. Usui for students who could not grasp the concept of intent.I have never used symbols for attuning others and have attuned many all at the same time using intent with no difference in results, except that Reiki 'masters' who have experienced the energy of shakti have found they could not handle the higher vibrations and were severely cleansing! OOOOps sorry!!!!!
In my experience using fast japa repetition creates a large amount of energy and who cares what the cause is as long as it brings progress? You will find that inner guidance will lead you to new techniques and abilities.Normally siddhis are not sought or taught as they are considered a distraction to the path and one gains these naturally.
L&L
Dave



Hi Dave
Very well put! Yes, intention. That is the key, the great transformer. I think chakras might be hard coded 'intention' converters. ??

That is also very interesting about Shakti being of very high vibrations and hard to control. I will reflect on this.

After watching Shri Anandi Ma dance on Youtube, and after experiencing rapid mantra repetition, they seem like methods of overloading the gross consciousness to the point where it shuts down. It does work, I cannot dispute that.

When I was a kid, we (me and my friends) used to take a puff on a cigarette, hold it in and then spin round and round with eyes closed until you fell down on the ground. That's sort of what Shri Anandi Ma's dance reminds me of (at the very end she falls into samadhi)..

Concerning the siddhis, I do agree that the potential of distraction is there. I mean, who wants to miss out on enlightenment having spent all of their earth time mind-reading, or levitating? I know that crystals will activate chakras and so will visualization/concentration/intent. Whatever the mind focuses on, energy soon follows..

Thanks again for your thoughtful and informative response.

OM SHANTI

TI



Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 27 2008 11:05:48 PM
Message:

Hi
So where am I at now?
This morning I sat by the river and practiced pranayama and connected my heart to sun. It's almost like I can see with my heart with eyes closed but I'm not making that my final goal.

This afternoon I performed my 5 malas (504 repetitions) of the RAM RAMAYA NAMAHA mantra. It took me 1 hour. It is supposed to take 20 minutes or so. I found an interesting explanation of the RAM mantra. Here it is: from this link:
www.angelfire.com/az3/legion.../attitude.htm

quote:

Om Ram Ramaya Namaha (or Swaha)

OM RAHM RAHM-EYE-YAH NAHM-AH-HA (SWAH-HA)

Thomas Ashley-Farrand in "Healing Mantras," writes that "Ram... is the seed sound for the manipura, or solar plexus chakra. Tremendous healing energy lies dormant at that chakra. Mantra can help you get at that energy. This mantra begins to awaken and activate the entire chakra. It specifically prepares the chakra to be able to handle the inflow of kundalini energy that gives the chakra its power." Ashley-Farrand breaks down Rama into it’s two syllables and describes their influence. "Ra is associated with the solar current that runs down the right side of our bodies. Ma is associated with the lunar current that runs down the left side of our bodies.... By repeating Rama... Rama... Rama over and over again, you begin to balance the two currents and their activity so that they can work with the higher stages of energy that will eventually come up the spine.... Om Ram Ramaya Namaha begins to clear the two currents with a slight emphasis on the right or solar side, which is needed in this age of darkness... After the age of twenty-nine, the ending of the mantra should be changed to Swaha."




During that meditation, a white beard started revealing itself. As the vision became more clear, Dhyanyogi's face appeared. He was watching and smiling at me.

For the pre-supper meditation, I decided to go back to my stock AYP practice session. I performed bhastrika for 3 minutes, deep spinal breathing for 7 minutes and then I did the AYAM mantra. What a contrast. I produced "AYAM" once, waited a bit, said it again, waited etc. What an easy thing to do. I also noticed that my forehead became very numb and I attained a very deep level of meditation again. I found myself back into a dark black cave with nothing in it, except faint echoes of "AYAM". I ignored all the visions but did notice that the light, which sort of looked like a glob of activity was quite pronounced... ignore ignore..

At the end of that meditation, I performed my favorite, Samyama from the cave. I noticed that everything during this whole meditation seemed to be a lot clearer, cleaner and joyful to perform.

During the last phase, which was the rest period, I was overtaken by my kriya. My neck moves to one side and then I slump forward onto my knees. That was sort of a surprise to me. I remained down for 4 or 5 minutes and then sat up again. I felt so good, deep, silent that I stayed in that state for quite a while. I re-visited the cave, the pond, the ocean with the sun, Shakti (she is still dancing for me), the angel, the buddhas, Jesus and some other places. I had a great time.

Right before I was finished and was "coming back", I looked straight ahead with eyes closed and I saw a small round blue ball, the same color as Yogani's deep meditation book's cover. I 'willed' it around me and I found myself inside. I 'willed' it back and I was out of it, once again looking at it. I wonder if this is the blue pearl. It is not shiny, it is dull. But it seems to obey me.. I'll explore that one at a later date. (you are supposed to be able to travel using the blue pearl, according to Muktananda)

I guess doing 9 months of deep silence meditation twice a day has it's benefits. After this last meditation, I felt like I had taken a sedative. I really didn't care about much, I was just grooving, savouring the detachment, being silent, remembering the cave and the darkness. Even though I had to wait for 1/2 hour at the restaurant, it didn't bother me in the slightest.

So there you have it, a full spectrum. I took an Evelyn Woods Reading dynamics course back when I went to university. I learned how to shift my perception to take in paragraphs and pages at a time. That is like the speed-mantra'ing. I can also read a word, wait a while, read another word... This is like the AYAM meditation.

The AYAM meditation produces (in me) great quantities of open space and silence, a numbing effect and wonderful silent periods during which nothing bothers me. The Dhyanyogi style of speed meditation is like a super concentrative effort that literally craters the linguistic mind, leaving you in a lucid state of awareness that is similar to day dreaming (or a form of light samadhi). Or, if you really try hard and push the speed mantra into the light, well let's just say that the scenery can be Heavenly

Oh yeah:
Vegetarianism: sort of, I've eaten some regular meals now.
Celibacy: Every teaching has it's own "100 day celibacy challenge" and they all say it's very beneficial if you can do it: Kunlun, Dhyanyogi, Taoism, it's everywhere ad nauseum.. That's what I'm thinking about now.. I mean, I have three weeks practice. So, Celibacy: yes.

Total time practicing today: 3.5 hours.

Life is but a dream without commercials. Somebody hand me that remote!


TI







Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 31 2008 10:50:10 PM
Message:

Hi Everyone
This is where I'm at now.
Three days ago I ate three clouds during a break. I stood outside, found a cloud and sliced and diced it with my eyes. I punched holes in it, looked at every part of it and sucked it in through my eyes. And, it disappeared! I did the same with two other clouds. They disappeared too! After doing that, I felt a kind of an electical butterfly feeling in my stomach and lower abdomen which lasted about 20 minutes.. Hmmm. Interesting stuff..

I had always wanted to dissolve clouds when I was a kid because I had read about it in a book called "Youth and Reincarnation" by Jesse Stearn (I believe). Now that I have the correct technique I'm almost convinced that it works consistently. Oh, here is the technique which I found last week:
http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php...19&hl=clouds


Last night, an angel appeared in my living room. I noticed it while I was playing my classical guitar. The angel had very longs wings, all the way to the ground. There were really no discernable features other than it looked kind of flat and consisted of whitish light. The angel did nothing except sit there. I presumed that it was listening to me play. It stayed for about 1/2 an hour and then it was gone after I had finished my solo 'concert' in the dark.

When I finished the 10 days of 108 repetitions of the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra I pursued the RAM RAMAYA NAMAHA mantra for three days. Then I kind of decided to go back to the 'deep silence' meditation (which was nice, calm, peaceful and serene). But, you know me. I'm always thinking that effort is the key. I don't have a lot of patience to just sit and wait for my mind to turn off. I mean, I used to play five people at once in chess challenges and win every game. I also used to play chess blindfolded. Often times the only way I could get people to play me was to give them queen odds (take my queen off of the board). (no ego here.. )

So now, after digesting the Shaktipat in Absentia experience, evaluating the visions and phenomenon, comparing the types of meditation, I've decided to do my regular practice with alterations.

Today, I did two sessions, once in the morning and once in the afternoon. I did 50 rapid deep abdominal breaths, followed by 7 minutes of spinal breathing followed by 20 minutes of meditation. I'm starting to get heat following my attention downwards to the root during spinal breathing (not just on the upward inhalation).

However, I've gone back to the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra during meditation. Also, instead of finding an empty room, I'm now just meditating while sitting at my desk. That mantra requires so much effort and attention that I hardly notice the surrounding office noises. Language isn't my strong suit..

During the morning meditation, after about 10 minutes, I felt small flames shooting up my back from my midsection up into my head. It also felt like my hands were just about on fire. The other phenomenon that I noticed is that I was getting flashes of what seems to be different bodies superimposed upon my physical; like I am split into several bodies. One of the bodies is a kind of golden watery light and when I focus on it for a few seconds, it seems to extend forever like a huge cavern of space. I sense that it is an awareness type of body.

After lunch, I went outside for a smoke. While I was standing there, I focused my heart on the sun and started loving it. My whole body started tingling. I closed my eyes and felt my surroundings with my heart. Again, I can see the surroundings all the way around me with eyes closed. It isn't as clear as I'd like it to be but I'm thinking that the more I do it the clearer it will become.

Later that afternoon, I really noticed how my head and hands were kind of burning, especially when I was just relaxing at my desk. (This makes me happy. I like the heat. )

During the afternoon meditation, the flames projecting upwards in the top half of the body re-ignited. The split bodies reappeared as well and I'm finding that even though I'm concentrating like crazy to repeat the BS mantra as rapidly as possible, I'm also becoming more aware of the space and other things that are happening at the same time.

I found the golden light body again and focused on it for a few seconds. I also fell into meditation once for 9 seconds; it took me that long before I could find my language center, remember where I was and continue with the mantra. The light at the third eye was also coming closer but I decided not to visit heaven because I didn't want to end up sobbing loudly in my cubicle..

My next goal is get the BS mantra going and completely relax my body and suck in from the brow to try to take it past the dream plane/phase of relaxation. There is less tension in my body if I'm not continually counting beads on a mala, so that helps..

Celibacy: yes This is day 21 of the 100 day challenge.
Vegetarianism: sporadic


TI


Reply author: Anthem
Replied on: Jul 31 2008 11:54:05 PM
Message:

quote:
I'm concentrating like crazy to repeat the BS mantra as rapidly as possible, I'm also becoming more aware of the space and other things that are happening at the same time.


If it's such a "BS" mantra, why do you use it?!?


Reply author: Suryakant
Replied on: Aug 01 2008 12:05:32 AM
Message:

The Bhuta Shuddhi mantra taught by Shri Anandi Ma, which is the same Bhuta Shuddhi mantra that was chanted by Shri Dhyanyogi Madhusudandasji, is extremely powerful.


Reply author: Anthem
Replied on: Aug 01 2008 09:51:01 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Suryakant

The Bhuta Shuddhi mantra taught by Shri Anandi Ma, which is the same Bhuta Shuddhi mantra that was chanted by Shri Dhyanyogi Madhusudandasji, is extremely powerful.



I am sure it is, I was just joking around with the initials "BS". Hopefully that was understood and obviously no intent to insult.

all the best,


Reply author: riptiz
Replied on: Aug 01 2008 2:06:36 PM
Message:

Hi,
I can attest to the effect of the Butta Shuddi mantra as i have been using it for 5 yrs.2 repetitions is enought o cause throbbing in the 3rd eye and I start drifting into samadhi.Using it while listening to the Divine Sound results in almost instant samadhi for at least 1 hr.
L&L
Dave


Reply author: Suryakant
Replied on: Aug 01 2008 2:21:15 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11

quote:
Originally posted by Suryakant

The Bhuta Shuddhi mantra taught by Shri Anandi Ma, which is the same Bhuta Shuddhi mantra that was chanted by Shri Dhyanyogi Madhusudandasji, is extremely powerful.



I am sure it is, I was just joking around with the initials "BS". Hopefully that was understood and obviously no intent to insult.

all the best,



All is well, Anthem11, all is well.

My post was simply an affirmation of Tibetan Ice's experience with the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra. I received shaktipat in-person from Shri Anandi Ma in 1990, and I went through the post-shaktipat Bhuta Shuddhi mantra practice.

Namaste,
Suryakant


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Aug 01 2008 11:52:13 PM
Message:

Hi,
Here is a rough translation of the Bhutta Shuddhi mantra:

OM
From the muladhara to the ajna via the sushumna
I join to God in the highest place
I bow before God
OM YUM
With the air body: dry dry
I bow before God
OM RAM
With the causal body: burn burn
I bow before God
OM
By Shiva through the sushumna down to the muladhara
Glow, glow, blaze, blaze, blaze forth, blaze forth
I am God, God is me
I bow before God

Of course, the mantra is not in English. I received a glossy with the BS mantra on it, along with the proper pronunciation key as part of the package I received for the Shaktipat in Absentia. It took me 3 days to learn and memorize it, and that was with the help of listening to it on the CD of Shri Anandi Ma and Dhyanyogi singing it.



************
Well, today I'm enraged for some reason. What a horrible day it has been. Not a big deal... I'll get through it.


TI


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Aug 02 2008 6:00:48 PM
Message:

Symptoms of over-doing?


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Aug 02 2008 10:48:23 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Symptoms of over-doing?


Hi Christi
Perhaps, perhaps not. I had a very bad headache in the morning, right in the center of my head going upwards. I ended up taking an aspirin. As I recall, usually the day after meeting a higher realm being, if they zap me with energy, I get symptoms. Perhaps that angel zapped me unbeknownst to me?

Or, it could be clearing. Shri Anandi Ma's post shaktipat instructions say that you may have days where certain emotions are brought up to the surface. It is part of Shakti's deep cleaning. I've also read that concept in other belief systems and here in AYP too. Shakti, better than Mr. Clean!

I feel fine today although I seem to want to go into attack mode when someone confronts me or drives like an idiot..


TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Aug 02 2008 11:25:10 PM
Message:

Hi
Well, this celibacy thing isn't so easy, is it?

My morning practice lasted 1 hr 20 minutes. I had lots of ecstatic conductivity arising, so much so that it was kind of distracting. I ended up taking five minutes off and then starting over. Towards the end of the meditation, the light at the third eye was so nice, round and bright that I just ended up watching it for a while. It kind of looks like a moon but with more light on it. Also, the heat was very nice too. I had short bouts of falling into samadhi, lasting a few seconds at a time.

During my afternoon meditation, which lasted 2 hours, the first part of the meditation progressed as usual, the light came down closer and I was blazing through the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra, feeling quite on top of it, pushing it higher and into the light. After an hour, I decided to sit in full lotus because full lotus is becoming very comfortable for me now (as opposed to half lotus, which is what I had been using). Big mistake. I started to get aroused. I thought to myself that I could handle it (no pun intended). I kept up the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra and the pleasure at the root got alot stronger; so strong, that I thought I might lose control. I should have quit at that point. Isn't hindsight wonderful?

I switched to AYP spinal breathing in an effort to see if I could draw the energy up the spine on the in-breath.

I was sucking the pleasureable energy upwards through the sushumna to the brow, breathing slowly and deeply, getting caught up in the sensations especially in my brow, my whole body started shaking and vibrating and before I knew it, well.. you guessed it. (I didn't even touch it!!!) I did succeed in drawing some of the "explosion" upwards and I recall that my tail bone and lower spine area tingled with a pleasureable feeling; I could see a sort of grayish cloud of energy being directed accross and then up the sushumna in front of the spine.

So it is back to square one. 100 days of celibacy here we come again (pun intended)..


TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Aug 04 2008 12:02:18 AM
Message:

Hi,
It has been an interesting day.
I sat by the river again and practiced pranayama.
Later, I did a practice of 50 deep breaths, spinal breathing and did the Bhuta Shudhi mantra for 40 minutes.

For my afternoon meditation, I decided to do the AYP stock meditation routine. I performed 2 minutes of bhastrika, 7 minutes of spinal breathing with root lock and then 30 minutes of "i am" meditation. (Not the AYAM, just this little insignificant 'i am' with no religious undertones). The other day when I did the 'i am' meditation, a little black patch or cave started opening up again. It was nice and quiet in there. Today, that cave was still there so I focused on it and repeated the 'i am' mantra every 5 or six seconds. Just blip, wait, blip, wait... I also made an effort to really relax my legs and abdomen. A lot of heat was rising. The forehead was numb. The light was higher up but I ignored it. Nothing else that was eventfull happened. I rested for 10 minutes and then got up and sat outside.

I must admit, when I sat outside, I was overcome with the deepest silence and peace that I hadn't felt for a long time. It was sheer joy. Like the world's volume control had been turned off. I just sat there, marvelling at the result, enjoying, relaxed, quite, peaceful..


TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Aug 07 2008 5:33:43 PM
Message:

Hi
I've been reading "Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond" at this link:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=CrT...=0#PPA143,M1

I'm digesting the part where it says that there are two types of visions. One type consists of scenes with multiple objects in it. The other type usually looks like a light. I realize in AYP that the general idea is to ignore all visions. After reading page 143 in the MBB book, I'm questioning that now. I'm feeling like I've had the opportunity to enter jhana many times but I've ignored those opportunities because 1) I did not know what to do with them and 2) the general idea here is to ignore the visions and pass them off as scenery.

If you read my earlier posts, you will read about numerous times when I've seen suns, moons, disks, bright shining lights, planets etc. These phenomenon, according to that MBB book are called nimittas. Nimittas are "beautiful lights that appear in the mind."

Here is that part that bothers me:

quote:

The best nimitta, the one most suitable for jhana, begins by resembling the full moon at midnight in a sky free of clouds. It rises unhurried when the beautiful breath softly disappears. It takes three of four seconds to establish its presence and settle down, remaining still and very beautiful before the mind's eye. As it remains without effort it grows brighter, more luminous. Soon it appears brighter than the sun at midday, radiating bliss. It becomes by far the most beautiful thing that one has ever seen. Its beauty and power will often feel unbearable. One wonders if one can take so much bliss of such extreme power. But one can. There's no limit to the bliss one can feel. Then the nimitta explodes, drowning one in even more bliss or one dives into the center of the radiating ecstasy. If one remains there, it is jhana.



Jhana is defined as :
"Jhana is a meditative state of profound stillness and concentration in which the mind becomes fully immersed and absorbed in the chosen object of attention. It is the cornerstone in the development of Right Concentration"

What bothers me is that had I known that you are supposed to continue being aware of the nimittas until they explode or you merge with them, I believe I would have started up the ladder of the four Jhanas (levels of Samadhi). I have just watched the moon, sun, planets after meditations just for the fun and pleasure of it, not realizing that I was staring at the doorway to enlightenment.

An interesting point is that I first started seeing nimittas during 'i am' meditation but have also seen them with controlled breathing "OM SHIVAYA NAMAHA" meditations, by just sitting in full lotus, or by performing the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra. It doesn't seem to matter what type of meditation you do, the nimittas will eventually appear.

I think that this is a pretty good case for not ignoring all scenery, as suggested in the AYP lessons.

I'm sure this point of view has been discussed here before and will probably precipitate some discussion.. Meanwhile, I'm still digesting..


TI




Reply author: yogani
Replied on: Aug 07 2008 6:52:29 PM
Message:

Hi TI:

I don't think it says anywhere in the AYP writings that we are supposed to "ignore" the scenery of our experiences. What it says is to "favor our practice over the scenery." When we are not practicing, we can enjoy the scenery all we like, or allow it in a self-inquiring way, if we have abiding inner silence (the witness) present.

We are not running away from anything. We are going toward something -- the procedure of our practice when we are sitting, or the routine of our life during everyday activities.

So, it is about favoring our practice, whatever it is. The real issue here is, What is your practice?

If we do not have a well-established practice, what can we favor? The endless confusion of mind stuff, that's what.

The truth is that changing the practice every week, day, or hour is no practice at all, and no one can get very far with that approach. It is just an endless kaleidoscope of mind stuff. If we want to find water, we have to learn to dig in one place for quite a while (for as long as it takes). Until we get that key point, it will just be more of the same. There is no getting around it.

So, it is suggested to pick a practice (any practice!) and stick with it exclusively for at least 6 months. Then you can see what is happening with that, and will have a much better chance for steady progress. Your spiritual progress depends on developing that kind of consistency more than anything else you have brought up here.

It is your choice, of course. All the best!

The guru is in you.


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Aug 08 2008 01:26:34 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by yogani

Hi TI:

I don't think it says anywhere in the AYP writings that we are supposed to "ignore" the scenery of our experiences. What it says is to "favor our practice over the scenery." When we are not practicing, we can enjoy the scenery all we like, or allow it in a self-inquiring way, if we have abiding inner silence (the witness) present.



Hi Yogani
I agree with you that a consistent daily practice is of great benefit. My point is that you regard the nimittas-lights as scenery and not part of the practice: nowhere in your writings do you instruct someone who sees nimittas to focus the awareness on them until until they either blow up or you merge with them, producing one of the levels of samadhi. (I'm not criticizing your assemblage of teachings, I'm just pointing this out. I guess I'm thinking that had I known about what to do with nimittas, I could have hit the levels of samadhi a long time ago when the lights started appearing and remaining constant).

Incidentally, the exploding nimitta is what happened to Muktananda in "Play of Conciousness".

Do you think that the teachings about nimittas and jhanas in "Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond" are an accurate representation of Buddist teachings? Is this not a valid technique? The practices concerning nimittas and Jhanas are supposed to come from Buddha himself. Buddha said that it is the middle path to enlightenment:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=CrT...=0#PPA127,M1



quote:

So, it is about favoring our practice, whatever it is. The real issue here is, What is your practice?

If we do not have a well-established practice, what can we favor? The endless confusion of mind stuff, that's what.

The truth is that changing the practice every week, day, or hour is no practice at all, and no one can get very far with that approach. It is just an endless kaleidoscope of mind stuff. If we want to find water, we have to learn to dig in one place for quite a while (for as long as it takes). Until we get that key point, it will just be more of the same. There is no getting around it.



I agree that changing your practice is not 'regular' practice, but it is a practice nontheless. (Even I have a base, standard regular practice that I do every day).
The "endless kaleidoscope of mind stuff" is your opinion and you are entitled to it. What if you practice 'letting go' or any other practice that stops the mind? There are many different methods of stopping the mind.
The "and no one can get very far with that approach" I have to disagree with. Mixes of practices can accelerate your progress. Some complement each other. Also, you can make a practice out of changing your practice which gives you different perspectives, teaches you versatility and expands your consciousness. Probably helps a lot with detachment too. Eventually, you have to detach from everything anyway, practices included. No practice at all is a form of practice if it is mindful, one which I'm sure would result in enlightenment.

And if there is no water there, you've wasted your time.

Or if you are digging with a spoon, why not find a shovel instead?

I've noticed that often times the very first time I try a new practice, it works.

Quite frankly, I read a few posts about someone who meditated for 3 years and obtained no progress or experiences. This scares me. I'm a believer of learning as much about everything as possible instead of relying on any one set of teachings. I try to find what works. I mean, I did the Self Realization Fellowship exercises for two years and the most I got out of it was that I only needed four hours of sleep and physically felt great.

I've done the AYP standard practice of spinal breathing and 'i am' meditation for 8 months, twice a day. I started last November. I started to vary my daily routine in July when I got Shaktipat in Absentia. At that point I also started varying the mantra too. However, I've always always meditated a minimum of twice a day since November.

Admittedly, I also do other things too in addition to my bi-daily sessions, like my nightly meditation which is my choice, Reiki, crystal routines, chakra meditations, astral travel, praying to Jesus, Kunlun, Qi Gong, cloud eating; I'm into anything and everything.

Unfortunately, I'm not a good guinea pig to see if the AYP lessons work on their own. I'm not sure you will find anyone who is strictly AYP. I'm not sure you could even discount previous lives' karma from the mix either. Please don't get me wrong, I think there is great value, wisdom and powerful practices in AYP.

quote:

So, it is suggested to pick a practice (any practice!) and stick with it exclusively for at least 6 months. Then you can see what is happening with that, and will have a much better chance for steady progress. Your spiritual progress depends on developing that kind of consistency more than anything else you have brought up here.



I'd prefer not to leave anything to chance. Further, how do you know what my spiritual progress depends on? What if I focus on the nimittas and jhanas and become enlightened?
What would I ask myself then? I have brought down the lights many times with the practices that I've learned and now I know what to do with them. But practices are not an end in themselves. That is the whole point, isn't it? Don't get me wrong, when someone first starts on the path, yes, they need discipline, regular practices and a consistent pattern to follow. That is the usual method but there are exceptions.

Why is it that when a yogi reaches enlightenment or an intense kundalini experience or cosmic consciousness or something close, the yogi then develops their own set of practices that they teach to their disciples (or write about in books)? Why do they "Do as I say", and not "Do what I did to get here"?


A while back in another post I had asked you some questions about yourself and you said that AYP was not about you, but about me (the people on the forum). That kind of stuck with me. Usually, when learning about teachings, I always try to learn as much as possible about the person/guru and get as much background as possible. Because, the person behind the writing is a usually a good indicator of the effectiveness and quality of their teachings.

On one hand, you've assembled some powerful yoga practices from varying sources (much like I practice a variety of techniques). But, you haven't told us anything about yourself. For example, I don't even know if you practice AYP or not. Are you enlightened? Do you have any siddhis? Do you know my past lives? Can you read me or tune into me like many enlightened gurus can? Do you really know what is best for my spiritual evolution? Are you enlightened or are you an author who's main purpose is to sell books? Are you leading everyone here to enlightenment or somewhere else? I'm sure everyone who comes here or reads your books/lessons has the same questions.

Now I know you're not going to answer any of that, because you are a very consistent person. However, if any time soon you decide to write a true biography of your life (and charge lots of money for it), I will be the first person to buy multiple copies.


TI





Reply author: Anthem
Replied on: Aug 08 2008 10:46:09 AM
Message:

Hi TI,

quote:
Eventually, you have to detach from everything anyway, practices included. No practice at all is a form of practice if it is mindful, one which I'm sure would result in enlightenment.

I find this to be a common misconception that suggests once there is detachment, that action stops or in this case practice stops. Detachment simply means letting go of the need for the fruits of effort, not stopping the efforts themselves. An example would be, I help people for the love of helping, not for their gratitude afterwards.

For the record, I have practiced AYP exclusively and have for 3 and a half years and have seen constant steady progress, as have many people here.


Reply author: yogani
Replied on: Aug 08 2008 12:18:02 PM
Message:

Hi TI:

I am not suggesting you become a practitioner of the AYP system. Only that you stick with one system (any system) for a while. That, and clearing up the "favoring the practice over the scenery" issue, were the only points I hoped to get across.

On the latter, if we are practicing one system and then become attracted to another system during our session (no matter what it is), that is just part of the scenery of that session, and we easily favor what our practice is. If we want to change systems, then we can make that decision in a logical fashion later on outside practices, based on a much broader assessment than a vision we have had somewhere in the foggy depths of our purification process (or the latest book we happened to read). Changing our practice is a big decision that ought not be taken lightly. If we find ourselves making these kinds of assessments and changes daily or weekly, both inside and outside our practice sessions, then we'd better step back and ask ourselves what it is we are doing. What will be the blueprint and support system for our path and our progress? Even the "no-practice" paths have blueprints and support systems.

I can't really advise you on Buddhist practices or other systems, but can say that using visions for objects of meditation is problematic, because sometimes they will be there and sometimes they won't. The payoff in meditation is in using the same object every day over a long period of time. Then we go deep. This is the advantage that a mantra brings. It will always be there at whatever level of consciousness we happen to be, and can serve us over the long term as we cultivate and stabilize inner silence in our life. This kind of stable practice also provides a foundation for additional practices that take advantage of rising inner silence. It is a systematic approach with a long term view.

Regarding your comment about "exploding" a vision, to what end? Inner silence? Well, we don't need pyrotechics for that. But if that is a system that interests you, and it has an established teaching with a track record, and you want to go that way, then do that. And stick with it.

And, yes, this is not about me. It is about you, your choices and your journey. AYP is a toolbox, but not the only toolbox. It is best to be using primarily one toolbox at a time, and use it deeply, becoming its most subtle nuance. It takes time. Jumping from toolbox to toolbox, or trying to use multiple toolboxes at the same time, will not work. There will be no depth or nuance, except the nuance of the mind, which is illusion.

I'm very happy to hear you have gained some benefit from the AYP writings, though I cannot trust that you have given the practices their due, or any non-AYP practice you have been discussing here either. It is not an easy position for a teacher to be in, and that is why I rarely come into this topic. I think a teacher from any other system you have dabbled in would feel the same way. A teacher is obliged to be as clear and straightforward as possible, not too much of a moving target. A student has a similar obligation, to him/herself. Without some consistency on both sides, it will not work. That leaves the student to reinvent the wheel alone. It might seem like fun for a while, but in time it will prove to be the most difficult and unreliable path -- a multi-layered labyrinth that could take lifetimes to find a way out of.

But that is life, isn't it? We are all attempting to cross over -- some in big boats, some in small boats, and some with no boat and swimming in circles.

All the best!

The guru is in you.


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Aug 08 2008 6:53:04 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by yogani

Hi TI:
I am not suggesting you become a practitioner of the AYP system.


Hi Yogani
I'm a little confused by that statement. I have been a 'practitioner of the AYP system' since November/2007. Are you saying that additional practices on top of the core twice daily meditation disqualify me from being labeled an AYP practitioner?

My core practice has been to perform two standard AYP sessions every day. What happens is I get into deep silence and then persitent visions appear, like a sun, a moon, a yellow disk, a clump of lights and they remain in my head, some for days. I've started over twice, gone back to the basics of deep silence meditation and then add in Shambhavi, tongue on epiglotis etc and I end up in the same place: staring at a round moon or sun that you just can't ignore.

These 'visions' are not the same quality as the little pictures or scenes or dreams that I also see (which I ignore). These planets and balls of lights are hard to distinguish from reality, most of them are are like looking at High Definition TV.

Surely you must get these 'nimittas' too. Do you ignore them in favour of your practice?


quote:

Regarding your comment about "exploding" a vision, to what end? Inner silence? Well, we don't need pyrotechics for that. But if that is a system that interests you, and it has an established teaching with a track record, and you want to go that way, then do that. And stick with it.



According to the MBB book, the result of exploding a nimitta or merging with it is Jhana (one of the four levels of Samadhi). With Muktananda, his nimitta exploded and showered down on him. It was part of his kundalini awakening experience. As the kundlini rises and pierces chakras, there are explosions heard and felt. (but not always, for whatever reasons). There are references to this phenomenon in many books/writings. Many gurus have experienced this during kundalini rising.

For example, Krishnamurti "The Natural State":
quote:

The whole thing is finished for me and that's all. The linking gets broken and once it is broken it is finished. Then it is not once that thought explodes—every time a thought arises it explodes. The division cannot stay there, it's a physical impossibility. You don't have to do a thing about it. That is why I say that when this explosion takes place (I use the word explosion because it's like a nuclear explosion) it leaves behind chain-reactions. Every cell in your body has to undergo this change.

It's an irreversible change. There's no question of your going back. It is like a nuclear explosion. It shatters the whole body. It is not an easy thing. It is the end of the man, such a shattering thing that it blasts every cell, every nerve in your body. I went through terrible physical torture at that moment; not that you experience the explosion—you can't experience the explosion—but its after-effects. The fallout is the thing that changes the whole chemistry of your body. The senses are operating now without any coordinator or center, that's all I can say. Unless that alchemy or change in the whole chemistry takes place, there is no way of freeing this organism from thought, from the continuity of thought.




So here is my plan, because, you are correct, you don't see nimittas when you first sit down to meditate. I will use the mantra to get down to the level where the nimitta appears and then I will switch to focusing soley on the nimitta and see if I can explode it. I will keep you posted.


TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Aug 08 2008 7:02:46 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
I find this to be a common misconception that suggests once there is detachment, that action stops or in this case practice stops. Detachment simply means letting go of the need for the fruits of effort, not stopping the efforts themselves. An example would be, I help people for the love of helping, not for their gratitude afterwards.



Hi Anthem
Thank you for your comments.
What I have read is that in order to realize the GOD within you, you have to drop everything; you must quit striving, you must not use your will, you have to totally surrender everthing and just let GOD be. In effect, you have to die (no mind, no will, no heart beat). That is what I'm refering to. I suppose you could call that a practice, but if you are dead, then there is no practitioner, therefore there is no practice.

quote:

For the record, I have practiced AYP exclusively and have for 3 and a half years and have seen constant steady progress, as have many people here.



If you don't mind me asking, are you enlightened? Have you experienced the higher levels of samadhi? What makes you believe that you are progressing? What indicators do you have? Have you ever seen a nimitta? Have you ever merged with one or exploded it?


TI


Reply author: yogani
Replied on: Aug 09 2008 12:55:04 AM
Message:

Hi TI:

No, you have not been practicing AYP. You have been using the AYP toolbox as a mobile platform to try dozens of other things, constantly modifying, blending, adding, subtracting, etc., and it continues with fundamental alterations in practice mentioned in your last note. It is a constant stream of short-lived experiments. That is fine if it works for you, but it should not be presented as "practicing AYP," because it isn't, and it will be confusing to anyone in the learning stage. Don't forget, there are many new practitioners visiting these forums.

It is one of the reasons why I say the forums are not the place to learn the AYP practices. The forums are a great place for open discussions on practices and experiences, which are very welcome, but it is best to go back to the lessons for the practices themselves.

If it is any consolation, I am honored that you have chosen to use AYP as a loose baseline for your wide-ranging experiments. That is something. But neither I nor anyone can predict the long term results. There is no blueprint and no support system that can affirm what you are doing.

One thing I can tell you is that if you are not using the rise of inner silence in daily living as a primary metric, and doing what is necessary to cultivate it, then you will miss the boat. All the rest of the stuff, as flashy as it may be, is small potatoes. So please do keep that in mind.

The guru is in you.


Reply author: riptiz
Replied on: Aug 09 2008 11:16:46 AM
Message:

Hi Yogani,TI,
I DON'T follow the AYP system and never have but it is a useful source of information and learning no matter what system you use.What does occur to me is AYP has been tested and found to be safe for Yogani. He cannot speak for others or make any claims that it covers all.(and I'm sure he doesn't)When teaching others one has a responsibility to be aware of their safety so one should give information that your experiences have deemed safe with a warning that it may not suit all.Unfortunately TI when you use so many varied tools without finding out which does what, you run the risk of giving information that for another may be damaging.If one has an allergy to for instance food, a doctor will add or remove one substance at a time to see which is causing the problem.If one adds or removes a mix in a short space of time then how can the doctor find out which sustance causes the problem.
You have taken shaktipat and are using the butta shuddi mantra with the guru mantra which is more than most will get in a lifetime.I can tell you that for me they are enough to put me into a deep state of samadhi in seconds almost every time I sit down.After over 30 yrs martial arts experience including Karate, Aikido, Tai Chi,Reiki, EFT,TM and others I have found the shakti is much more than any of these and I am extremely well grounded.
This is not meant as a criticism and I applaud your enthusiasm and thankfully you are experiencing(at the moment)few problems but there are many who would suffer extremely with what you are doing.
L&L
Dave


Reply author: yogani
Replied on: Aug 09 2008 1:59:42 PM
Message:

Hi Dave:

Thanks for chiming in. I thought you might, since your system of practice has been mixed and matched here, along with many others.

TI cannot be faulted for his enthusiasm, or for wanting it all right now via a Muktananda or Krishnamurti-style "spontaneaous awakening." But can this be accomplished by focusing on the extreme symptoms of such an event, or on fragments of practice that may have led to it? Not likely. In fact, many would prefer to avoid the extreme symptoms, and this is possible. See here for more on dramatic spontaneous awakenings.

That is the ongoing issue with the spontaneously enlightened. They (or their symptoms) are often mimicked at the expense of sound practices that will bring about the desired result. If an awakening occurs without significant practices in this lifetime, the teaching by the spontaneously enlightened person will often be limited on effective means, and over-exaggerated on recreating the appearance of the end result.

We are seeing light shades of this more and more often in AYP, with some finding themselves experiencing non-duality in what seems a spontaneous manner. I aways remind those having these experiences to be sure to let people know what practices came before that led them to the experience of non-duality. Good things are happening for sure, and we must not forget how we got here, so many others can follow.

It is not wrong to want it all right now, but an effective systematic approach is going to be necessary for the vast majority of aspirants. With that, anyone can do it.

Even so, a spontaneous awakening may happen for TI, with all the attendant fireworks. He wants that, and we can wish it for him.

But it will not change the underlying fact that the end result is not the path. Hence the great value of reliable systems of practice that cultivate the condition of abiding inner silence (samadhi). With That, our awakening is assured.

The guru is in you.


Reply author: riptiz
Replied on: Aug 09 2008 3:54:32 PM
Message:

Hi Yogani,
Yes, it's great that so many people want to reach heights in spirituality.As the times are indeed changing and the vibrations are increasing many are finding that access to the universal energy is easier which I believe means we need to be more responsible in our teachings AND in our own practices.I simply tell my students my experiences using the system I practice but I don't tell them of my own individual practices.They are for me alone simply because they have either come directly from my teacher or from my inner guru.Much of what I practice is from inner guidance which I believe makes them fine for me.
I do hope that TI finds balance in his sadhana and life without the problems that can arise by overloading.
L&L
Dave
the guru is IN you.


Reply author: Anthem
Replied on: Aug 09 2008 5:51:18 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Hi Anthem
Thank you for your comments.
What I have read is that in order to realize the GOD within you, you have to drop everything; you must quit striving, you must not use your will, you have to totally surrender everthing and just let GOD be. In effect, you have to die (no mind, no will, no heart beat). That is what I'm refering to. I suppose you could call that a practice, but if you are dead, then there is no practitioner, therefore there is no practice.


Yes, quit striving for the fruits of labour, the glory from attainment, stop taking the highs and lows from the world of duality yes, but I never heard of Jesus just sitting there not doing anything. You surrender to what Is (God) and That expresses itself spontaneously from within your body/ mind without attachment to what occurs. The natural flow of life (God) moves through you and acts unimpeded in the world. The imaginary "I" stays out of the equation, "I" exists within, but is just another passing thought not to be attached to and not to be confused with the moving flow of life itself.

quote:
If you don't mind me asking, are you enlightened? Have you experienced the higher levels of samadhi? What makes you believe that you are progressing? What indicators do you have? Have you ever seen a nimitta? Have you ever merged with one or exploded it?


TI


No not enlightened, still lot's of work to be done here. As for higher levels of samadhi, I have never been into labeling subjective experiences, I couldn't even begin to tell you what samadhi is exactly, as I've seen it used to describe countless meditative experiences. Any sense of "I" having attained can only lead to suffering, who wants that?

Progress becomes self-evident as we look back and observe our changing perspectives. I recently made a list of the changing perspectives here:

http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....ID=4197#4197

It's really a meaningless list, there is no happiness in a list or any ideas of attainment. To flow as what Is, from the silent depths of heart, a wish...

I'm personally interested in improving the quality of my life and the level of happiness and emotional ease I feel each day. Lights or colors here and there in meditation or other such experiences don't satisfy me or interest me much, I'm interested in liberating myself from suffering, being One with the divine, all else pails in comparison.

If you enjoy exploring the many, many experiences that come up, power to you, have a party!

All the best,

A




Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Aug 13 2008 08:48:50 AM
Message:

Hi TI,

Thanks for your very interesting writings about your meditation experiences! I have been following with much interest. (And thanks Yogani, Dave and Anthem for your very interesting perspectives). I thought I would chime in as well as you are also using tools from one of my primary practices- Buddhism.

Jesus appeared before me once as well. I found myself at his feet on my hands and knees. I could not even raise my head, but I looked up at him with my inner eye and I saw a huge figure radiating white light. Love flowed from him like a great river and flowed over my back holding me to the floor. I could have touched his feet, but the power of the love pouring down on me was too strong and I could not move. The love flowing was golden and he wore a purple robe. The only other colour around him was silver. Then he vanished.

On the subject of the Buddha and nimittas... Nimitta is a Pali word meaning "sign" or "characteristic". The Buddhists describe 8 stages of Samadhi and the nimittas are the characteristics which accompany each different stage of Samadhi (jhana). The most common nimittas are joy, peace, bliss, freedom, absence of physical pain, absence of mental pain, great bliss etc. Visions such as suns and moons are also nimittas, as are smells, sounds etc. The Buddha did teach about the different Samadhi states, and about the nimittas. He did not say that the spiritual practitioner needs to make a moon appear, and then make it explode in order to attain enlightenment. If only it were that easy.

What the Buddha did say about the Jhanas (samadhis) and the nimittas is very interesting. He basically said two things on the subject. The first is that he once said that his monks should learn to dwell in all the various levels of mental absorption (Samadhi) and to be able to move freely between these states, so that they can see that no state of consciousness is nirvana.
The second thing he said is that a monk who resides often in Samadhi will gradually incline towards enlightenment (just as the Ganges naturally inclines towards the ocean).

If I were you I would think of enlightenment as a permanent state of bliss (satchitananda) arrived at through inner silence, combined with a permanent state of ecstatic love (Divine love) arrived at primarily through the gradual purification of your whole being. Peace, stillness, silence, love, joy... these should be your code words, and also your measure of success in your rising enlightenment.
It is not something that will happen in some dramatic "event" or "explosion". It is something that will gradually arise when all striving for attainments has ended.

And then love will pour from you like a river of grace.

Christi


Reply author: neli
Replied on: Aug 15 2008 06:11:40 AM
Message:



Hi Christi,

I have also seen the nimittas, and they are *lights* as far as I know,
different kind of lights, small, big, and of different colours.
take a look at this link and see where it talks about the jhanas, it describes the nimittas
http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/pali/index.htm

What I know is that the smell, noise or other blissful effects are pitti-sukha.

Once I saw Abraham and he was surrounded by light,a very bright light, kind of a big nimitta, very similar to the light that surrounded Jesus. So if they are surrounded by light, it can be that the nimittas are more than an "effect" of Jhanas or Shakti, maybe its something that we don't understand.

Jhanas is very different to the Shakti path, but is a totally harmless meditation, and with Shakti one must be prudent. It can be dangerous also.

The good thing is that the path of Shakti is very fast, compared to Jhanas.

I've been years in Jhanas, and in my opinion, can be a good complement to the K energy.

Both of them are ecstasy's manifestations.

Sat Nam
Neli







quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Hi TI,

Thanks for your very interesting writings about your meditation experiences! I have been following with much interest. (And thanks Yogani, Dave and Anthem for your very interesting perspectives). I thought I would chime in as well as you are also using tools from one of my primary practices- Buddhism.

Jesus appeared before me once as well. I found myself at his feet on my hands and knees. I could not even raise my head, but I looked up at him with my inner eye and I saw a huge figure radiating white light. Love flowed from him like a great river and flowed over my back holding me to the floor. I could have touched his feet, but the power of the love pouring down on me was too strong and I could not move. The love flowing was golden and he wore a purple robe. The only other colour around him was silver. Then he vanished.

On the subject of the Buddha and nimittas... Nimitta is a Pali word meaning "sign" or "characteristic". The Buddhists describe 8 stages of Samadhi and the nimittas are the characteristics which accompany each different stage of Samadhi (jhana). The most common nimittas are joy, peace, bliss, freedom, absence of physical pain, absence of mental pain, great bliss etc. Visions such as suns and moons are also nimittas, as are smells, sounds etc. The Buddha did teach about the different Samadhi states, and about the nimittas. He did not say that the spiritual practitioner needs to make a moon appear, and then make it explode in order to attain enlightenment. If only it were that easy.

What the Buddha did say about the Jhanas (samadhis) and the nimittas is very interesting. He basically said two things on the subject. The first is that he once said that his monks should learn to dwell in all the various levels of mental absorption (Samadhi) and to be able to move freely between these states, so that they can see that no state of consciousness is nirvana.
The second thing he said is that a monk who resides often in Samadhi will gradually incline towards enlightenment (just as the Ganges naturally inclines towards the ocean).

If I were you I would think of enlightenment as a permanent state of bliss (satchitananda) arrived at through inner silence, combined with a permanent state of ecstatic love (Divine love) arrived at primarily through the gradual purification of your whole being. Peace, stillness, silence, love, joy... these should be your code words, and also your measure of success in your rising enlightenment.
It is not something that will happen in some dramatic "event" or "explosion". It is something that will gradually arise when all striving for attainments has ended.

And then love will pour from you like a river of grace.

Christi



Reply author: gumpi
Replied on: Aug 15 2008 07:59:25 AM
Message:

Neli,

Are you involved with the light and sound movements? I have a couple of books by Maharaj Charan Singh and he says they don't deal with kundalini. I wondered what you thought about that?


Reply author: neli
Replied on: Aug 16 2008 07:58:11 AM
Message:


Gumpi,

I'm involved with light, but not all the time, only when it comes, cause this is a factor number one to attain the first non-material states of Jhanas or in another words, more near to samadhi.
At the beginning I heard many noises, not now, I can even been beside a strong music while in meditation and I don't hear anything, I mean I lost my sense of hearing while in meditation, but this is not always.
Kundalini symptoms can be very strange, and noises as well, are symptoms of kundalini's flow, also lights. But lights are more frequent in Jhanas. But I have met people of the kundalini meditation that at the beginning they heard many strange noises, and saw lights, and beings, and many things. I knew one person that she could heard in her head the conversation of 2 persons of the tenth floor, while she was in the second, it happened for months, till she surrendered to the K energy, then it faded away, and this was when she began with the K meditations. I think each guru or teacher thinks different things about the K energy, but in reality there's too much to learn.
Also the lights are not only a Jhanas phenomenon, as I have met really good *mediums* that produces sound and light effects, without any meditation.
Shamans are also in an ecstatic trance, and they don't practice meditation.
I think also that Jhanas is very similar to the shaman's state of trance.
I think all paths are mean to attain the same point.
But I'm just a beginner in the K path, have had symptoms before, not now. Thanks to the Jhanas the symptoms were very smooth.
But in Jhanas I have never felt any symptom but pure and delightful ecstasies. I'm beginning to feel ecstasies also with Shakti, and its woderful, cause the K path, is a fast path to enlightenment(IMHO) and Jhanas is a very slow path, but harmless.
I have heard many false gurus that says that if you don't eat watermelon twice a day, you can feel so bad (in the K path)or when you are in the K path you are being "watched" and "punished" if you are not to accomplish what the guru says, I mean these are the *false gurus*. My sister went to the hospital with a panick attack cause she forgot to eat *watermelon*. So one must be very careful with what a guru states as a true. When I asked the *watermelon* guru why he had made that statements that inflicted fear to the beginners, all his flock of people turned against me, and he made me a veiled threaten that Kali was there to punish, so you can see, there's many loco gurus out there. And thanks to him, my sister hates now the K path, and I can't convince her, that she was with a loco man, she is now brutally afraid of the Kundalini path, just for a selfish and false statement of a false guru. I read many books about many things, but I listen first to my own guru that is in myself.
The ego is so big, that I don't think that this false guru that frightened my sister is aware of the damage that he has made upon my sister, not only splitting us as sisters, but frightened her for a life. But he lives in total adoration of her muses (flock)and they can be very aggressive if "their God" is being confronted.

Neli

quote:
Originally posted by gumpi

Neli,

Are you involved with the light and sound movements? I have a couple of books by Maharaj Charan Singh and he says they don't deal with kundalini. I wondered what you thought about that?


Reply author: OneMoreChakra
Replied on: Aug 25 2008 1:05:24 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

quote:
Originally posted by Suryakant
If God and Guru want siddhis to manifest through me, they will.



Hi Suryakant
Please do not take this comment the wrong way. I am not trying to offend you. I appreciate your correspondence and help and I admire your praise and devotion to God in the highest.

The little tiny thing I'm confused about is this: Are we not all part of God? Correct me if I am wrong but your statement makes it sound like God is separate from you.
TI



Dear TI,

Glad you made it through the Bhut Shuddhis... many people don't keep that commitment. Welcome and Sita Ram, from a longtime disciple.

If I may gently offer two corrections and a point of information:
1. When a mantra is given to a disciple by a Guru, it is not supposed to be disseminated by the disciple. This especially applies to the Ram mantra in our lineage. It's a beautiful mantra, but we generally don't lower it to the level of a 'tagline'. As you continue your practice, I think you'll discover what I mean and why I offer that to you.

2. Anandi Ma doesn't offer a "course" in Astral Travel. It's one of the teachings in the Vajra Panjar retreat series. Now that you've had Shaktipat, I highly recommend taking the VP series... the teachings will blow you away.

Point of Info: Dhyanyogi-ji made a sankalpa many years ago, that his disciples would not receive the distraction of siddhis until we had reached the goal of realization. That's probably why Suryakant and I (and most disciples of Dhyanyogiji and Ma) don't bother going for them. I know that if the Guru wants to spare me the distractions of power, who am I to argue?

OMC


Reply author: VIL
Replied on: Sep 06 2008 1:42:37 PM
Message:

I remember that you mentioned a while back that you saw a vision of a little boy, TI, and I wanted to ask if the little boy first floated above and looked at (a sort of partition or top bunk? and then down, again, and smiled at you before you said, "who are you" and the boy smiled and said, "I don't know". Wasn't there something above your bed at the time like a top bunk or a shelf of sorts or partition? There was definitely something above your bed, right? I'll explain after I hear from you.

Namaste:



VIL


Reply author: mohanp71
Replied on: Jun 03 2009 04:01:23 AM
Message:

HI All,

Cany anyone provide me with the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra. You can email me at mohanp71@yahoo.com

Regards,

Mohan


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 26 2009 9:43:50 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by mohanp71

HI All,

Cany anyone provide me with the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra. You can email me at mohanp71@yahoo.com

Regards,

Mohan



Hi,
If you would like the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra, why not take shaktipat in absentia from Sri Anandi Ma? It will cost you min $250.00 donation and will test your dedication. But you will also receive a CD so you get the correct pronounciation. Here is the link: www.dyc.org
OM SHANTI
TI


Reply author: ThisIsTruth
Replied on: Jul 06 2009 3:28:55 PM
Message:

Anthem11 said:
"but I never heard of Jesus just sitting there not doing
anything."



Hi, Anthem11,

This is the question - "Action without action" ("to be or not to be").

Jesus is the God Love. He is the LoveOfGod. He is the realised God
Love at the Earth planet. He is the Sun/sun. He just sit there/here
not doing everything/anything.

This is the Love - she just sit there/here not doing everything/anything & because of that - we feel that the Love do everything/anything.

But this is the question that you can ask Yogani - where is
the Dother/dother, pls? Ask Yogany - I mean that he will answer to
your question too.
Edited by - ThisIsTruth on Jul 06 2009 5:12:19 PM


Reply author: mohanp71
Replied on: Jul 07 2009 8:26:58 PM
Message:

Thx TI. I have signed up for the next shaktipat with Anandi Ma in July.

Regards,

Mohan



quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

quote:
Originally posted by mohanp71

HI All,

Cany anyone provide me with the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra. You can email me at mohanp71@yahoo.com

Regards,

Mohan



Hi,
If you would like the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra, why not take shaktipat in absentia from Sri Anandi Ma? It will cost you min $250.00 donation and will test your dedication. But you will also receive a CD so you get the correct pronounciation. Here is the link: www.dyc.org
OM SHANTI
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Sep 30 2009 12:42:49 AM
Message:

Hi,
This is an update.

I quit the bhuta shuddhi mantra back in August. I do believe that Sri Anandi Ma's lessons and teachings are of great value. I've learned a lot and had some great experiences. Just had to take a break.

I've also quit mantra repetition, and all ayp practices for now.

I'm focussing solely on "feeling the inner body" as per Eckhart Tolle. Why? Read on.

About 4 weeks ago I was listening to "Practising The Power Of Now" by ET parked on the hill where I go to hear the silence. ET was explaining about how "feeling the inner body" is a gateway to presence. Basically, you feel the life force in your right hand, then your left, then both together, then your feet, legs until you can feel the presence in your whole body as one field of energy. Well, when I did this, my perenium started to sensitize and pulse. The effect lasted for 30 or 40 minutes afterwards. This was very interesting to me.

I decided to try it again later and the same sensation occured. So, I started doing 35 minute sessions, twice a day, of "feeling the inner body". I treated it like a meditation. I would feel the inner life force and if my mind drifted away or produced distracting thoughts I would go back to feeling the inner life force. At that time I was also "just letting go" and really relaxing the body.

This produced some startling results. During one meditation, my perenium throbbed and released waves of ecstatic bliss up my spine. I could see large concentric circles progressing upwards like a water spout. It was a blissful event! And, the length of the sensation that I was about to orgasm after the meditation was increasing in duration; sometimes it would last three or four hours, or reappear later during the day when I was relaxing. It actually had me worried for a while. I thought there was something wrong with that part of the anatomy.. :) Now I know that it is the rising of the kundalini, ecstatic bliss, shakti love, thanks to some replies to my posts on this forum. (I really appreciate the feedback).

Last night, I had the most wonderful experience. I'm still trying to get over it. The day was kind of funny. I had not felt much ecstatic bliss or perenium throb and was mulling over the idea that mantra repetition and focussing on the light might be activating the kundalini in the perenium. I wanted to review the Echart Tolle blurb where he describes the practice of watching one's thoughts to the point where the thought disolves, leaving a silent space. I knew it was on the "I AM" CD/mp3 but I just couldn't find it. It was after supper and I was planning on watching my thoughts for the night's meditation. But, I just couldn't find the part on my iPod to listen to again. I must have spent about an hour searching for it. Oh well...

So, I prepared for bed and then sat down for my evening meditation. When I sat down, I felt tired, so tired that I really didn't want to watch my thoughts. The "feeling the inner body" meditation is so nice and blissful. Time flies by so fast that it feels like you are in a time warp. I decided to do that instead. Except, this time, I decided not to try to let go or super relax, but instead, just feel the inner life force.

I started out with feeling the hands until they became clouds of magnetic energy like they usually do. Then I sensed my feet along with the hands and eventually felt the whole body. This time, however, when I felt the whole body, I felt a warm radiant heat throughout as one solid unit.

I was rather enjoying it when my mind kicked in and reminded me that I had thought of this wonderful saying. Here it is: "Sex without Love is like Life without God.".

At that point the tingles started. They coursed down my arms and legs. They circled round my torso and neck. They went through my entire body. (It is starting up again as I write this).. :) I'm not talking about slight shivers or tingles, I mean a solid stream of blissful tingles, overwhelming love, joy bliss permeating through all parts of my body. I thought to myself, yes, God is in my heart. My heart exploded with love for all creation. Tears were running down my cheeks. I was a bliss factory. A veritable ball of ecstacy. I noticed that my mind was still operating and making comments and I realized that the mind doesn't have to be still to experience this bliss.

This whole episode lasted for 35 minutes. At one point, it was so intense that parts of me (my right side) turned into what looked like a fine mist of tiny balls of white light. At that point I started to get scared and started to try to shut it all down. After a few minutes I got a hold of myself and sat there stupified and happy. Just let it flow. Don't be concerned. Hmmm. Big bliss. What an experience. :) :) :)

Went and had a cigarette. Sat in the dark. Went to bed. I was lying in bed and then the lights came. Lights like I've never seen before. I felt like the lights were alive, like they were beings from higher planes, watching me, inviting me out somewhere. I lay in bed, unable to sleep for at least two hours, contemplating the power of just doing nothing but feeling the inner body, the life force, the presence of God within me.

I watched the lights but didn't want to have any more experiences. I contemplated the fear that I had hit and the intensity of the whole experience. I thanked God for the wonderful experience. Eventually I fell asleep. Had to work the next day..

Today, I am fine. I've got quite a bit of ecstatic bliss running through my body and it feels like I'm about to orgasm, but I'm getting used to that. I know that all is well, I can feel it in my heart. :)

TI




Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Sep 30 2009 6:24:39 PM
Message:

Hi TI,

Great to hear that you have been having some good experiences with the Echart Tolle practices. Thanks for the update.

Christi


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Oct 02 2009 2:04:14 PM
Message:

Hi,
Well that was a pretty strange meditation..

This morning I decided to do the "Seeking the source" type of meditation. Basically I repeat the mantra subvocally, seek out where it is coming from and try to keep my awareness there. Then, I think the mantra without subvocalizing and keep my awareness there. Then, I intuit the mantra and focus my attention there. (The "intuiting the mantra" comes from a 'higher' location, almost like it is coming from about 2 inches above my head towards the back). At this point the star of light appears and the mantra seems to be coming from it.

This time I got a bit creative. I went a few steps further. I tried to feel what was triggering the initiation of producing the mantra. That is, try focusing on whatever it was that was going to create the next intention of producing the mantra. After remaining at that point for a few minutes, I could see the light, see the mantra being created as it progressed into coarser and coarser levels of manifestation and followed it as it became audible and clear.

Then, I backed off completely, remembering the word "effortless". There is a type of consciousness which is in between the outer body and the inner body. It is like your normal everyday consciousness, the one that you are in when you are doing nothing in particular, with your attention just flitting about. I started intending the mantra from there. Effortlessly, quickly, one short intention and then wait and watch.

Well what appeared was very interesting! The mantra is still coming from the light but there is this clear transparent watery-like window or film that it hits on it's way to you, the witness. When it hits the window, the window begins to ripple and holds the mantra and the vision of the light for a few seconds (6 or 7), like a drop of water hitting a clear pond of water. After a while the disturbance or ripples dissipate and you can no longer see the window because it is still once again.

The window is vertical. I don't know how big it is nor do I know whether or not it envelopes the witness or the light.
It is as if there is this force field between you and the light and you can't see that barrier until it grabs something like the mantra, and then starts to oscilate/vibrate. If I had to guess, I would say that consciousness is like a vertical pool of water or force field that vibrates and reflects the thoughts that pass through it.

I wonder if that is the clear light of awareness... Hmmm..

:)
TI

**Please note: The practices that I am writing about are not standard AYP practices.


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Oct 06 2009 10:36:44 PM
Message:

Hi,
Garlic?
Two nights ago on Sunday I had a bout of ecstatic bliss arising from my perineum which lasted over 5 hours. It started after supper. I finally had to take a long hot bath and that cooled it down for the rest of the night. It was a mixture of pleasure, tenseness like wanting to crawl the walls and warmth which felt like a layer of gentle heat around the body about 1 inch thick (like I was wearing a think body sweater). This was accompanied by very fine tingles throughout the whole body and waves of pulses going to my head. Also, the left side of my body was cold and the right side was hot. I kept getting up and walking around the house in hopes of some kind of release.

This was a very intense episode and I'm trying to figure out what may have caused it. That day I had done two meditations, both were the "Sensing the inner body" and they both lasted around 50 minutes. I can't help the time. When I do this meditation, it feels so good, I become a cloud of feel good bliss magnetism and I lose all track of time. Even though the alarm goes off, I love it so much I have to make a real effort to pull out of it. Time literally flies by.

It was nothing I couldn't handle... and although I know about the value of self pacing, I've done many 2 hours-per-day of that meditation before, so it's either cumulative or there are other factors which may be at play.

I had also done 35 minutes of "seeking the source of the mantra". I noticed that when I hit certain spots in my head or I should say points or seconds where there are no thoughts, my perineum starts pulsing with intense pleasure. It also pulses when I focus on the light, listen quite intently or have a satori moment staring down a beautiful path in a forest or a particularily long road; I can see my awareness come streaming out like a clear stream of effervescent water and then the scene becomes cystal clear and much brighter/magical.

The other factor is this: I had heard that eating garlic goes into the body and produces vital sexual fluids. That day for supper I ate 5 cloves of steamed garlic. I wonder if garlic really does replenish your sexual energies or maybe stimulates them or aggrevates them. Anyone here have any experience with kundalini energy flows and eating garlic?


Mantra repetition and heat
Today, I missed my morning meditation because of meetings. At the time when I usually meditate, while sitting in a meeting, I noticed that I had a stream of heat coming from my navel progressing upwards. Then I remembered that I had learnt/realized that subvocalizing causes chi/prana/heat to be released from my navel area. So, I sat in the meeting and stretched out the mantra in my head a few times. My face became hot.

For the afternoon meditation, I decided to try the AYAM meditation like I used to do it. I would stretch out the mantra and make one repetition last 15 to 20 seconds. (I used to do that because it was way easier to focus continually on the mantra like that.) Well, I went through the typical dream/vision phase, saw lights etc and my face got hot. Now I remember! That is why my face and hands used to get so hot! Subvocalizing the mantra and stretching it out causes prana/chi to be released from the navel into where you are focusing. I realize now that this is incorrect practice according to the AYP lessons. I can't believe I spent almost two years meditating like that. Maybe tomorrow I'll feel differently about it. :) Right now, my face is burning (and the perineum is buzzing). I think I've been pooling chi into my face and head. Yikes..

Incidentally, it wasn't until I heard about 'refining the mantra' as in TM (transcendental meditation) that I started performing very short little 'ayam's', and then seeking the source of those. So maybe I'm slower than most in some aspects.. :) Wildebeest!

Looney tunes
I seem to be in a talkative mood. Living alone has it's moments..

I discovered a 2 inch wide channel from the heart to the third eye. A few weeks ago, I did a some meditations while focusing on the area 1 inch behind the brow and goes outwards at about a 45 degree angle. That same area is the location where, if you roll your eyes upwards and consciously try to fall asleep, you will feel swirls, see a kind of hole and a tunnel opens up.

So, one day I was standing on the curb having a smoke (we have to smoke outside at work), and I focused on that area. I closed my eyes and started thinking that a person whom I wished to see was walking down the sidewalk. I remained 'in there' for a few seconds, imagine talking to them etc. When I opened my eyes, that person was indeed walking down the sidewalk towards me and then stopped to talk to me!

Similar kinds of events have happened to me now, seven times. I will think of something in that region in my brow (it's about 1 inch inside the head behind the eye brows and it opens up and becomes a tunnel from the heart to 'out there') and immediately after, the event happens. Or, a few times, an hour or so later. I'm hoping that this is some kind of enhanced intuition and not me that is creating the events.. That is one of the reasons why I've quit focusing on that channel from my heart to the upper brow. I didn't want to talk about it before because I thought maybe I was going looney or something.. :)

Enlightenment
I'm so glad that Christi quoted one of Yogani's explanations of what enlightenment is. He said:

quote:
The first, and most important sign of rising enlightenment, is the emergence of inner silence -- an unshakable blissful inner awareness -- eternal peace taking up residence in our nervous system.


The reason I'm so happy about this is because the "Sensing the inner body" gateway to now/presence, as described by Eckhart Tolle, is, in my mind, focusing on or 'feeling' the "blissful inner awareness" directly. After a while, you get better at it and do realize that there is this layer of bliss in your body!

Not only do I think that sensing the inner body is what caused my perineum to come alive (although I guess it could be a cumulative effect from 2 years of practice and perhaps sensing the inner body just made me aware of it??), but I keep thinking about other references to similar meditations, like the buddhist "completely relax and do nothing", or the buddhist technique of "imagining a hollow body" or "fill your body with light". Incidentally, the hollow body meditation (just what it sounds to be) is supposed to help balance out your energies and cure just about any pranic distress. So I really believe that sensing the inner body, becoming one big cloud of magnetic bliss is good for you!


Thanks for listening. If you decide to try eating garlic to see if it enhances your sexual energies, please let me know what your verdict is. :)

:)
TI

Please note: I write about many things. If you don't find what I've written about in the AYP lessons, then it is not an AYP practice.


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Oct 07 2009 07:36:05 AM
Message:

Hi TI,

quote:
I'm so glad that Christi quoted one of Yogani's explanations of what enlightenment is. He said:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The first, and most important sign of rising enlightenment, is the emergence of inner silence -- an unshakable blissful inner awareness -- eternal peace taking up residence in our nervous system.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



The reason I'm so happy about this is because the "Sensing the inner body" gateway to now/presence, as described by Eckhart Tolle, is, in my mind, focusing on or 'feeling' the "blissful inner awareness" directly. After a while, you get better at it and do realize that there is this layer of bliss in your body!


In AYP, the feelings that arise in the body as kundalini becomes refined are called ecstasy. Bliss is experienced as silence expands into peace, and from there to bliss. So both bliss and ecstasy can be present at the same time.

You may find this lesson interesting:

Bliss, ecstasy and divine love

The "sensing the body" practice from Tolle is a classic Buddhist practice and it can have a powerful effect on the kundalini as you are discovering. Good to pace it if you can. As Yogani says, sometimes less can be more.

Christi


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Oct 20 2009 12:39:47 AM
Message:

Hi :)
Well tonight I'm crawling the walls again.
It started getting more intense at about 4:30 pm this afternoon and has been getting more and more intense. It's 10:30 pm now.

I have been doing 35 minutes of "sensing the inner body" and just letting go twice a day for a while now.

Usually, I get perineum sensitivity, some rushes, tingles a few times a day and that last for an hour or two, but tonight it seems to have gone wild. It is so intense it almost hurts. If I stand up and walk around I'm engulfed in waves of tingles and goosebumps. When I sit, the ecstatic "ache" spreads down to my thighs and up to my navel. My navel (lower tan tien) is electric and almost hot. Most of my body feels like a fine electric current. If I grab my crotch area and put pressure on my perineum, it feels like I am having an extended orgasm. There are waves of heat coming up the front of my body, tingling in my hands and I feel very tense... crawling the walls..

During this afternoon's meditation (STIB), it did not help that I did not focus my gaze on my third eye (sambhavi), I still saw visions/pictures/scenes anyway. And who is this bald guy with thick black glasses who keeps appearing?

I also noticed that if I pause my breath right at the bottom of my exhale, the intensity increases tremendously. Something about being breathless at the bottom of the exhale, even for a few seconds that exacerbates the phenomenon.

This is not blissful. Ecstatic, yes, fun? no. Now I wonder what I got myself into..

I know, self pace and start up spinal breathing again. Please don't remind me.

TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Oct 24 2009 4:16:23 PM
Message:

Hi Everyone :)
where am I at now?
I'm still practising just letting go, sensing the inner body, letting go of the head and all control, just becoming the watcher. I'm still seeing nimittas. The one I saw during yesterday's meditation was a brilliant white, brighter than an arc welder's torch. It only lasted for a second. Caught me off guard and I became too excited.

I also bought and started reading Osho's "The Book of Secrets" because I'm very interested in what Osho has to say about "4. Or, when breath is all out (up) and stopped of itself, or all in (down) and stopped—in such universal pause, one's small self vanishes. This is difficult only for the impure." from Yogani's link here from Lesson 136:
http://www.aypsite.org/136.html

I'm interested in this because it is at the bottom of the exhale that I push forward and really relax and let go, and it is at that bottom where the nimittas and perineum pulse occur.. Comment: Reading Osho is like eating from a snack tray and forgetting to take the toothpicks out of the food. :)



My First Group Meditation
I had my first group meditation in my life on Thursday night. :)

There were three of us. The meditation lasted for 30 minutes.

After the inital greetings, the three of us chose our seating positions and the meditation commenced. Person 1 was seated on the floor on what appeared to be a sheep/fur rug. Person 2 was seated on the couch. I sat on the dog blanket on the floor with my back resting on the wall. We were each about 7 feet apart, facing the center, forming a triangle, so to speak.

The meditation commenced. Person 1 performed very powerful Spinal Breathing for about 10 minutes. I performed 2 minutes of Bhastrika, then 5 minutes of gentle Spinal Breathing. Person 2 was inaudible so I could not tell if he was performing any breathing routines.

When I first sat down, in unfamiliar surroundings, with two almost complete strangers, my first instincts were to suss them out, to take a reading and see what I could sense from them. When I "sensed" Person 1, I became aware of a kaleidoscope of colors and patterns, like someone had taken crayons and drawn intricate shapes and patterns at random all over his aura. It reminded me of a Hawaiian cocktail that I can describe of massive very colourful cartoons superimposed over each other. When I "sensed" Person 2, I could see nothing. Nada. There was a black veil or something that he was enveloped in that my sensing could not penetrate.

After a few minutes, Person 1 had transformed into a black nothingness that I could not penetrate. I felt comfortable and secure so I decided to do my meditation. I focused on my breathing routines and then, proceeded to let go, relax deeply, and sense my inner body.

After about 2 minutes into the meditation, a brilliant white light star appeared in the center of us, about three feet above our heads. It was a brilliant radiant white star, with slight touches of pale blue. There were continuous brilliant lightning bolts running from each of our top-of-the-heads connecting to this star! Not so much bolts, but more like continuous currents like Tesla coils, or constant carbon arc surges. There was not one bolt from each of our heads but 7 or 8 smaller fillaments that comprised the whole beam.

At first I was surprised to see such a vision and, after examining it for a bit, decided to ignore it and return to my meditation. Although I tried to ignore it, the pyramidal light structure remained clearly visible. I ended up splitting my attention between letting go and just watching the light show in awe.

The bolts of lightening were not actually touching our heads, they were coming out from about 6 inches above the head. There didn't seem to be any direction from which the currents were emanating. Each bolt or strand of lightening was moving, sometimes fusing two or three bolts together, sometimes splitting into finer, smaller bolts.

The bolts and star at the very top were continuous and appeared all connected and fused together. The entire structure looked like the frame of an electric 3 sided pyramid with a star at the top.

Viewing this scene brought some questions to mind. The brilliance and colour of the star were of the same consistency as the star that I discovered by seeking the source of the top-of-the-head pulse mantra. Was it the same star, only now it assumed a central position between us three meditators? Did our stars merge together or is there only one star? Was it Christ Consciousness in action? What was this?

Now I'm very interested in the dynamics of group meditation because it looks to me that people connect or join together through this structure of white lightning bolts when they meditate.

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Nov 02 2009 2:07:02 PM
Message:

Hi :)
Be careful what you focus on

It was Sunday morning. I pulled into Tim Horton's and was sitting in the drive-through lineup. The lineup was progressing slowly.

I looked in the rear-view mirror at vehicle behind me and immediately my mind started producing all of these thoughts.

The person in the car first picked their nose. Disgusting, I thought. "He's a real winner"... "Look at how he is dressed" my mind thought... hip cap, mirror sunglasses, observing himself in the mirror, resting his head on the door-window.. Then he rubbed his face all over like he was tired. I thought to myself "He will probably fall asleep right there.. "

Then my other self kicked in and started. I observed the thoughts and thought to myself, these are thoughts, they are judgemental thoughts and they are just thoughts. I was having judgemental thoughts. They are not me, not part of me. I will focus on that last thought and dissolve it. So, I focused on that last thought while locating it around my third eye. I kept focusing on it.

Suddenly "BAM". My car lurched forward. I was shocked! He had rear-ended me. He had driven his car into the back of mine!

When I got out of my SUV and walked over to talk to him he said "Sorry Man, the brakes didn't work." His hood was all crunched up and pushed back. There was no visible damage on my SUV.

I think he fell asleep in the lineup. Do you think I caused it by focusing on that thought, trying to dissolve it?

I spent most of the day wondering about the power of the third eye coupled with active kundalini. I'm thinking I'm really going to have to watch what I think about.

:)
TI



Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Nov 06 2009 11:37:21 PM
Message:

Hi,
Well, on November the first I decided to go back to a 'practices style' routine and did that twice a day until last night. (I missed the 'sensing the inner body' meditation but haven't had much luck sustaining the jhanas so I decided to take a break from it). Last night, for my evening meditation, and after reading yet another interpretation of Patanjali's Yoga Sutras, I decided to try a new kind of meditation.

This is what I did. You know that 'normal' kind of consciousness that you have everyday, where you look out from your eyes and see things? That 'normal' consciousness that when you think or feel 'I', it's right there. It's a very easy thing, there is no effort, it's just there all the time. Like going for coffee. Well, for my meditation, I just assumed that mentality, closed my eyes and did absolutely nothing. No letting go, no relaxing or anything. The only thing I did was to try to maintain that everyday state of consciousness. The whole meditation lasted 47 minutes.

This is what I noticed:

1) It became very silent and still. Some thoughts were happening behind in the background and they came and went. The silence was very nice, but it was not a 'lack of sound' type of silence. It was more like an alive presence that doesn't move at all. It felt like 'me' but a very large 'me'. The me that sees through my eyes. It was so nice! Every now and then a thought would drag me away, but I knew where to go back to so it wasn't any problem returning to this 'silent state of normal presence'. I also noticed that the dream state kicked in and then the 'dream thoughts' were also trying to drag me away. I maintained my attention not externally nor internally, but in that everyday consciousness right in your face or more in or through your eyes (if I can put it that way).

2) After about 30 minutes of keeping my normal consciousness going, I entered a very bliss-full state that resembled a fine whitish cloud. My perineum kicked in but the ecstasy went full body. I loved it. :) I didn't know that you could get into that state by just being in normal consciousness!

3) My hands, feet, brow, the whole body had become a cloud of magnetic energy similar to the feeling I get when I do the 'super relaxing letting go' meditations that I had been performing.

4) I had the feeling that I had found something very profound.

5) The intensity of the full-body bliss got to be very intense and I started to get antsy, overjoyed, anxious, tense, impatient... the pleasurable feelings were detracting from the sea of silence and I was pretty excited about what I had discovered.


I spent most of today going back to sensing that 'normal state of consciousness'. It is so great because it is always there and now I know where to find it. I can just flip it on or shift my perspective and it is there.

I've decided to do that type of meditation twice a day for 35 minutes as my regular practice.

During this afternoon's meditation, I did that 'normal consciousness' meditation for the second time today. It took a while before the thoughts calmed down and the dream visions quit flashing but I hit the silent presence again. I had some trouble because my eyes, which were focused straight ahead, kept moving for a while.. then I became rock solid. Stillness in action (except for gentle breathing and heartbeats).

WHAT HAPPENED NEXT KIND OF SURPRISED ME! I felt a sharp pin-prick like a mosquito was biting me on the top of my head. The pain lasted about 5 seconds. Then it went away. About 10 seconds later it happened again in exactly the same place and lasted about 3 seconds. Then it went away again. Twenty or so seconds later the sharp pain happened again. By this time I was thinking "oh oh, crown opening".

I couldn't really shut the meditation down because there was no meditation to shut down. So, I felt the top of my head with my hand. There was a lot of heat coming from that same place at the top of the head. I felt it with different parts of my hand and yes, a round area exactly in the centre of the head, about 1 1/2 inches in diameter was very hot. Then, I noticed that there was a greyish kind of funnel extending downwards for about 2 inches into the center of my head from the top hot part and it felt kind of numb and dead.

Since that meditation, at 5:00 pm tonight, the scalp at that area on the top of my head feels tickly and like it is swirling but I only notice it when I pay attention to it or when my mind drifts absentmindedly. There is a slight pressure but it isn't really a build-up kind of pressure.

Haven't explored it yet, I'm still observing the mind's comments about it. Can't decide if I should be happy or scared or indifferent. Detachment has many benefits, you know.. no peaks and valleys.. :)

The interesting thing is that some things seem to happen when you're not trying and when you least suspect it.. and sometimes things happen when you first try something new (because the mind hasn't had a chance to get in there yet). Or perhaps it is a ricochet effect from 2 years of solid practices coming to fruition? Who knows..

:)
TI





Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Nov 23 2009 11:35:27 PM
Message:

Hi :)
This is an update.
For my regular practices, I'm all over the place right now. I'm split between sensing the inner body and just letting go (because it activates the kundalini), doing mantra repetition, watching my thoughts or just following the mantra to the bright light at the center of my head, or practicing the Dyhan Yogi style "OM one, Om two.." style meditation.
When I do Dhyan Yogi's meditation I see Anandi Ma's face. When I do I AM meditation, afterwards I feel like I've been hit by a truck or just woken up from a very deep sleep. When I do "sensing the inner body" meditation, my kundalini becomes too intense (but I still like this one, but I feel like I have to do some kind of concentration discipline and self inquiry too).

It's quite a problem. However, I think I've found something I love a lot, at least right now!

I found this ebook today called "Merging With Siva" and started reading about the nadis, (tinnitus - if that is what that is), and how it can be used to balance ida and pingala. It is, as far as I can tell, a wonderful ebook and has anwered so many of my questions. I love these celibate Hawaiian monks, even though I don't know them! I can feel that they have good energy.

The main idea is this:

quote:

As the pingala force becomes quieted and regulated, you will hear a ringing about an inch above the right ear. This is the sound of the nerve current of the pingala nadi. And as the ida force becomes quieted and regulated, you will hear a ringing about an inch above the left ear. This is the nerve sound of the ida nadi, slightly different from the tone of the pingala nadi. The direction of energy flow in the pingala nadi is up, whereas the ida nadi flows downward. When the energy in the two nadis is balanced, a circle is formed, creating a force field in which the sushumna nadi is regulated.



Here is the link:
http://www.himalayanacademy.com/res...s_ch-38.html

Anyway, this is what I did for my afternoon meditation today:

1) Prayers: one minute
2) Breath of Fire: one minute
3) Spinal Breathing: five minutes or so using "OM NAMAH SHIVAYA" as a four-second-timer mantra breathing in and then out. One second pause between ins and outs.
4) Listen to the ringing in my ears, try to balance them and then see what I could see. (note: I was not sitting in full lotus, nor was I regulating my breathing. I was sitting straight on a chair and just let the breath go).

The ringing is always louder in my left ear. I listened to it. According to that link above, you have to listen to the sound (nadis) in both ears and if they are not equal, you have to balance them out. Because I could not really hear the ringing in my right ear very well, I focused on relaxing the right side of my body. That worked!

I started listening intently to both at the same time. I like this because intense listening stills the mind, produces silence/stillness and I'm very good at that from being a musician since I was five.

Then it happened. I don't know where I went of what I did, but all of a sudden it was like someone turned on a light. I was confused. I thought I was meditating, how could a light be going on? Then I looked ahead and saw an outline of my form coming back to my body from a brilliant white light straight ahead of me and slightly off to the left.

Then my timer went off. I was confused. I thought I had set the timer for 35 minutes, and it felt like I had just started the meditation.

I was very confused. I was dazed. Most of what I am recounting is being recalled, or rather, I have no idea where I went or what happened. I think I went into the light because it looked like I was returning from the light. I don't know for sure. It was like the events were separate and disjoint and may not have been in that order.

I don't understand. I mean, during the meditation, I was just listening to the ringing sounds in both ears. My mind was very silent and I was listening intently. Then, wham, I'm coming out of the light and the meditation is over. Total blank.. Hmmm.

The very interesting thing is that this is what I was trying to do and I didn't even get to the "seeing an arc" or anything. (from the "Merging With Shiva" ebook link above):
quote:

Now, to bring the sushumna force into power, listen to both tones simultaneously. It may take you about five minutes to hear both tones at the same time. Next, follow both tonal vibrations from the ears into the center of the cranium, where they will meet and blend into a slightly different sound, as two notes, say, a "C" and an "E," blend into a chord. The energy of the nadis is then flowing in a circle, and you will enter the golden yellow light of the sushumna current. Play with this light and bask in its radiance, for in it is your bloom. The unfoldment progresses from a golden yellow to a clear white light. Should you see a blue light, know that you are in the pingala current. If you see a pink light, that is the color of the ida. Just disregard them and seek for the white light in the tone of the combined currents until finally you do not hear the tone anymore and you burst into the clear white light. Thus you enter savikalpa samadhi -- samadhi with seed, or consciousness, which is the culmination of this particular practice of contemplation.



I think I was in savikalpa samadhi!!!! :) :) :)

This is what I mean about "the very first time I try something it often works!

I'm definately going to be trying this practice again.

Om Shanti
:)
TI

Please note: The practices described here are not standard AYP practices, and I consider myself to be an experienced long term meditator who likes to try many things. If you are a beginner, I recommend whole heartedly embracing the AYP methodology because it will give you a solid base and understanding from which to build on.


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Dec 18 2009 12:02:06 AM
Message:

Hi :)
These are words of wisdom:
link: http://www.himalayanacademy.com/res...s_ch-28.html

quote:

Sunday
LESSON 196
The Self Never Changes

When you begin to sense this changeless existence within, your intuition begins to awaken, and if you function through the use of your intuition you are able to clear many misunderstandings about the experiences of life. In this clarity, intuition is born. Right now you perhaps think you are the mind; you may feel remote from your Inner Being, but ask yourself each time you think you have found yourself, will this change? You will find that every image you hold of yourself is subject to change -- even your soul, or your superconscious mind, is subject to change through evolution and, therefore, is impermanent. Only the Self, the very core, is eternally the same, eternally Real. Find your Inner Being through feeling; realize it is closer to you than your hands or feet, closer to you even than your breath. Your mind will want to leave this consciousness as soon as you attain it, but gently guide your mind back through the channel of concentration until once again you become rejuvenated, uplifted in the awareness of That which has never changed. That is your very Self, and That is God.

Jnanaguru Yogaswami said, "Search without searching." By this he meant that as long as we are searching for God in meditation, there are two -- God and the seeker. He did not mean that we should stop looking for God, stop meditating or stop striving and live an ordinary life or give up sadhana. He was saying that to deepen your meditation, while seated in the lotus position, doing pranayama, to deepen this state, stop looking and begin to realize that you are That which you are looking for. As long as there is searching, Parasiva has not been found, for searching is two, and It is one. But you must keep searching until It is found. How to attain That? Satguru Yogaswami said, "Stop looking, and just be." Give up consciousness which is seeing and registering that which has been seen. Become the sound, nada; just be and merge into the Ultimate Quiet. When the disciple is on the brink of the Absolute, the timeless Parasiva, twoness disappears in the overpowering presence of Siva, and consciousness is absorbed and annihilated in His transcendental Being, which is nondifferent from the disciple's. However, if the disciple continues looking for this experience and thus, in the act of his search, solidifies himself and the sought-after experience as two different things, he becomes the obstacle and the problem to be eliminated. In the end, the Great Mystery is known as one, as two, as neither one nor two.



AUM NAMAH SIVAYA

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Dec 20 2009 3:43:20 PM
Message:

Hi :)
So where am I at now?
I was doing this for a routine:
- Prayers
- Breath of Fire (bhastrika)
- Spinal Breathing
- Meditation (mantra repetition but seeking the source, finding the light and then focusing on the light)

Since changing my meditation from directly "sensing the inner body" to focusing on the light, the kundalini energy seems to have refined, it became a kind of thick misty type energy that feels very fine and produces a kind of pillar or column of energy going upwards. There is not so much ecstasy anymore, or rather, it doesn't feel like sexual energy anymore. Hmm.. It is a thick palpable type of whitish flow.

Then I started getting into the light more and more. There are three areas of light now. One at the top of my head, one in the center of my head and one that appears in the frontal area above the brow. As the day draws to a close, I sit on my recliner and look at the lights in my head.

After reading about Gurudeva's (Hawaiin monk at this link: http://www.himalayanacademy.com/res..._author.html ) suggestion to control the breathing by inhaling for a count of nine, hold for one, exhale to a count of nine and hold for one, I decided to try that (two days ago). After 10 minutes of breathing like that, the effect was that I felt like I had come out of a very deep meditation. The world glistened! It was like being in an extended satori. It was too easy. I wondered if maybe that timing(9191) is how one should be performing spinal breathing. I've ordered Norman Paulsen's "Sacred Science" book (and the Christ Consciousness book too).

The other thing that took me by surprise (two days ago) was that as I performed the Breath of Fire (bhastrika), a blueish light appeared in the brow region. As I continued, the light got brighter and brighter. I ended up just doing the whole meditation looking at that light. It was kind of disconcerting to me that bhastrika could have such an effect. It was like I had been possessed and I didn't want to stop the rapid breathing. Each breath was making the blueish light brighter. I felt I had to stop because it seemed like I was going through a type of addiction-reaction. Breathe, see the light, another rapid breath, see the light etc. It made me not want to stop, like something possessed me, like I had lost control, like I was a child who had discovered a bathtub of candy and one shouldn't really eat that much candy.

I think I'm realizing that controlling the breath is an effective way to still the mind, produce satori states that last a long time and manifest the light. This is kind of disturbing to me. I did not meditate at all yesterday. I have some kind of ingrained fear of realizing that I've found some keys and now I'm scared to open the door.

Yet, even without meditating yesterday (first time in years), it was a magical day. I read all about Richard Bartlett's Matrix Energetics, how they 'drop down into the heartspace' and then function from there. I'm wondering if the heartspace is what Kirtanman, Shanti, Christi and others have opened up to... Bartlett says that once you build this heartspace around you you can bring it with you all throughout the day.

I spent the whole day researching Matrix Energetics and even ordered three of the recent books. I guess I have a particular interest in healing and learning how quantum physics might explain time travel. The part about Matrix Energetics that interests me is going back in time, finding the outcome that is desirable, intending that outcome to manifest and then letting go of that one. Then, magically, the present becomes a manifestation of the new chosen outcome. There are fantastic Matrix Energetics stories about healing broken limbs that way. Here is one example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMzS4STXHs0

Then, to end off the day, I started watching TV (yuk!) which is something I do rarely. I watched "Star Trek- Insurrection". It was an episode about how 600 inhabitants of a magical rejuvinating planet were to be moved from the planet so development of the planet's rejuvinating essence could be mined and exploited. At one point in the show, Jean Luc Picard meets a beautiful 300 year old woman who is definately enlightened and can stop time. At one point in the show she slows down time to show Jean Luc. Then later, Jean Luc also slows down time through his feeling of love for this woman. The implication was that the heart/love can slow/stop time.

On the other channel, I was also watching "The Never Ending Story". I had seen it before but it is a great story. The main message I got from it is that "imagination/dreaming/hope/fantasy" are very important parts of life. Funny how the two shows that I ended up watching conveyed the importance of the heart space and imagination. :)

All in all it was a magical kind of day. It was one of those days where you feel like living is only a dream and that there is some higher power manifesting events in the day to resonate that fact.

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Dec 20 2009 6:47:00 PM
Message:

Hi, :)
Well, this is very interesting. For this morning's meditation I did this:
-Prayers
-Breath of Fire
-Spinal Breathing (1919)
-Meditation on the heart space.

For the Meditation, I dropped my awareness into the heart space. I repeated the mantra "HUM", which is suggested by the "The Clear Light of Bliss" book for focusing on the indestructable drop in the heart.

I have done heart meditations before where you focus on the white/blue indestructable drop in the heart chakra. When I turned my awareness down towards the heart, I noticed that there is a space around the heart/lower abdomen. This time, instead of trying to concentrate on that one location in the heart, I decided to focus on the whole spacey area instead.

The first thing I noticed is that there is a space that extends from the centre of the body in a kind of large circle, encompassing the body. It was not really any effort to find it or to focus on it. You just relax a lot, and point or shift your attention downwards into the center of your body at your heart/solar plexus. But don't restrict your attention just to the heart area. The whole area seems to start at the navel and goes up to the throat.

The space that exists there is similar to the space that occurs when, during "sensing in the inner body", you pass through the sleep stage and your body falls away revealing this kind of dark space where slices of luminescent parts your body/being exist. However, the space is not really dark. There is darkness but you can also see some lights/things in there. I did not try to focus on the light or the shapes, I was more interested in just remaining in the quiet part of the space.

It was a very easy meditation, relaxing and somewhat silent. The mantra part of it just went on and was easily ignored, just something for the mind to do.

The heart space is clear, luminescent and silent.. very peaceful. It doesn't seem to have any boundaries. It is a very large space and at the same time, very small.

At one point, as I shifted my attention backwards to point to "me", I noticed that what I thought was the body was in fact this huge empty shell of an outline of a body. It felt like the body had grown to a giant size but was really only a shell of a body. It was kind of neat! My body had become a sphinx, just sitting there, nothing in it, an empty statue of clay.. I went back and forth from noticing the heart space to looking back at the body. The gigantic body was easily visible and did not disappear.

The ringer went off all too soon and took me surprise. That was a very fast enjoyable 35 minutes!


:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jan 03 2010 8:06:53 PM
Message:

Hi :)
Perhaps the most memorable experience that I have had during the last few weeks was the expansion of the sushumna and discovering that I could send my awareness up and down the sushumna rather than from an exterior perspective. I wrote about that at this post: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=6916

During the last few weeks I have been drawn more towards Awareness Watching Awareness and the Heart Space.
The Awareness Watching Awareness practice that got me going on this is from "Merging With Siva" by Gurudeva:
link: http://www.himalayanacademy.com/res...s_ch-43.html

quote:

To attain and sustain kaif is a simple practice. You pull awareness out of the thought processes. You pull awareness out of the emotion processes. You pull awareness out of the bodily processes, and you're just completely on that pinnacle of being aware of being aware. That's so necessary to practice every day, even if you do it for a split second.

The experience of kaif can be attained by anyone on the face of the Earth, at least for a split second, because it's so easy to be aware of being aware. To hold that experience and to stabilize the physical and emotional elements long enough to hold that intensity for even a minute takes more practice -- not too much, but consistent practice. To maintain kaif for two minutes requires more effort, more will, more dedication to the life of sadhana. Five minutes requires more. That's the test.



What happened to me the first time I tried this was interesting.. As I detached from mind/emotions/body and kept blankly looking through my eyes, I noticed a welcome silence. It was very easy to me. As I persisted in this state I started to fall asleep, which surprised me. As I transcended the sleep barrier, my kundalini became active and I experienced a flow of thick misty type of energy rising up and enveloping me. The whole session turned into an ecstatic conductivity experience. This occured after about 20 minutes of practice while sitting at my desk.

A few days ago it occured to me that the lights in my head and the one in heart were also the same kind of 'colorful light' and texture. I had been spending time investigating the Heart Space, due to Richard Bartlett's "Physics of Miracles" book and I came up with the idea that the light of consciousness is what I was now pushing up and down the sushumna. I was also noticing that the light in my heart region was becoming more pronounced..

Yesterday I kind of missed the intensity of the light in my head so I did a meditation of repeating "I AM" and seeking the source of the thought from the top of the head. Yup. That brought the light in my head back to shining brightly. It's like a whole other world opens up, a world of colorful cartoons. I also noticed that this light is the same texture as the light in my heart space..

Last night, after reading Robert Adams' satsang advice (link: http://itisnotreal.com/Collected_Wo...ms_Vol_1.pdf ) to seek the source of the "I AM" and his suggestion to sync the "I" with the in-breath and the "AM" with the out-breath I decided to try that as I sat on my recliner. I also focused on the heart where I now know the "I" is coming from..

Well, surprise surprise! After only a few minutes of casually performing this routine, my leg kicked all by itself. Then, a few minutes later, my arm jolted. Then, my left side jumped.. It was very amusing. The jolts occured more frequently as the meditation progressed. It was sort of like I was experiencing kriyas of some sort.. like I was plugged into an electric chair and someone was playing with the switch.. I thought of emc and manigma and wondered, my god!, I can't imagine having a full blown episode of this out in public!.. :) Kriyas must come from the heart..?

Today, I'm still trying to stablize in the source of the "I AM" in the heart. I also found a great motivator: "The Million Dollar Question of Nondual Yoga Vedanta Meditation" at this link: http://www.swamij.com/podcast.htm I decided to continue seeking the source of the "I" in the Heart Space.

So, for practice I did prayers, Bhastrika, Spinal Breathing and then meditation. For the meditation, I repeated "I" on the in-breath and "AM" on the out-breath. I also tried not to pause between breaths. Every time I repeated the "I", I tried to feel/focus on where it exists in my heart. This was kind of easy since there is a ball of colored light in my heart region (which kind of feels like it is more on the left than the right?? I think I'm out of balance...).

As my meditation continued the light and colors from the Heart Space became more intense and pronounced. Actually, they were the same texture and just as colorful as the light at the top of the head just bigger and more 'in your face'. In comparison, the light at the brow seems like moonlight..

All of a sudden I was looking at this very colorful orange flame. The flame was moving about and dancing around. It was delicious! I loved it. When I realized that I was watching the flame dance I wondered what it could be. I wondered if it was burning my karma. I also wondered if it was RAM. I continued watching the flame and at one point it kind of faded out but then it came back as I re-focused on the heart space. Thinking too much or reacting caused the flame to become obscured. I wonder if I was looking at the manipura chakra's flame from the heart space..

After the meditation was over, for some reason I was very happy. I felt light and blissful. I kind of danced around the living room and kitchen.

:)
TI

Note: The practices here are not standard AYP practices. If you are starting out I would suggest following the AYP lessons from the beginning..


Reply author: Steve
Replied on: Jan 04 2010 1:00:18 PM
Message:

Hi TI,

quote:
All of a sudden I was looking at this very colorful orange flame. The flame was moving about and dancing around. It was delicious! I loved it. When I realized that I was watching the flame dance I wondered what it could be. I wondered if it was burning my karma. I also wondered if it was RAM. I continued watching the flame and at one point it kind of faded out but then it came back as I re-focused on the heart space. Thinking too much or reacting caused the flame to become obscured. I wonder if I was looking at the manipura chakra's flame from the heart space.

With sufficient purification and surrender, as the heart opens and deepens there is a flame of love and light that gets ignited from deep within the heart. It is not the same as kundalini or just feeling the flow of love coming from the heart. It is much deeper. When it becomes active and functioning, it's purifying effect is pure to the core and can greatly assist the sadhana.

Silence, Love and Light,
Steve


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jan 04 2010 1:42:29 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Steve

Hi TI,
quote:
All of a sudden I was looking at this very colorful orange flame. The flame was moving about and dancing around. It was delicious! I loved it. When I realized that I was watching the flame dance I wondered what it could be. I wondered if it was burning my karma. I also wondered if it was RAM. I continued watching the flame and at one point it kind of faded out but then it came back as I re-focused on the heart space. Thinking too much or reacting caused the flame to become obscured. I wonder if I was looking at the manipura chakra's flame from the heart space.

With sufficient purification and surrender, as the heart opens and deepens there is a flame of love and light that gets ignited from deep within the heart. It is not the same as kundalini or just feeling the flow of love coming from the heart. It is much deeper. When it becomes active and functioning, it's purifying effect is pure to the core and can greatly assist the sadhana.

Silence, Love and Light,
Steve


Hi Steve, :)
It looks like an orange flame, not one solid flame like a yellow candle flame but like it has a bunch of wispy flames in it. Also, the width is quite wide compared to the width of a candle flame..
Is this documented anywhere? Do you have any links/sources that I could read about it?
Thanks.
:)
TI


Reply author: Steve
Replied on: Jan 05 2010 04:39:29 AM
Message:

Hi TI,

On an experiential level, I received direct introduction to it through the Master Yoga portion of the Padmacahaya curriculum. Prior to that I had never experienced its direct workings or come across specific documentation regarding it elsewhere. However, the discussion you were having with Christi in the Wayne Mirs topic correlates with my experience of its nature and workings.

quote:
The nature of this Truth and Light is that of a spiritual nuclear fire - something more than the initial Light that comes from above. It is a Fiery Light that has the power to transform every level of being-consciousness, even the physical or material level of consciousness. [Tao Malachi]
The above quote from Tao Malachi is the best description I have seen of it. Like the awakening and working of the kundalini, there comes a point in the sadhana when there is a sufficient opening of the heart and level of surrender that allows the grace of True Source to ignite the flame of love and light within the heart and begin its workings in a more direct and sustained manner. It has a different purpose and function than the kundalini and in ways its purifying effect goes much deeper as it emanates from and touches the core of who we are. When ignited it works in conjunction with the kundalini supporting the sadhana and service to all. Any interference, reacting or controlling can shut it off. It works through non-interference, complete surrender and trust, and with an unconditional love offering of our entire being to Source to be used in service for the benefit of all beings everywhere. It is a most precious gift available to all.

quote:
quote:
The statement of the reception of the Supernal Light through the agency of Divine Grace is significant, for we prepare the vessel of reception, namely ourselves, through spiritual practice and the spiritual life. Likewise, receiving the influx of the Supernal Light we integrate it through spiritual practice and the spiritual life and are empowered to extend that Light in the world. Yet, it is not the spiritual practice and life which generates or imparts the True Light, but it is Grace that receives and imparts it - for the Light is a movement of Grace or the Holy Spirit (Mother Spirit). Thus, in essence, the Way of Christ is a "Yoga of Grace" (Union of Grace). [Tao Malachi]
Hi TI,

Thanks for posting that quote from Tau Malachi, I didn't know that he had a website.

I think that line sums up a lot about the Christ consciousness stage of enlightenment. After self-realization, which is a shift in identification from the unreal to the real, and is essentially a passive process, there is a dynamic process where the body becomes a vessel and channel for the divine light, force and power. Eventually the body becomes nothing but this divine light, force and power as you will know if you have met Jesus Christ.
quote:
The nature of this Truth and Light is that of a spiritual nuclear fire - something more than the initial Light that comes from above. It is a Fiery Light that has the power to transform every level of being-consciousness, even the physical or material level of consciousness. [Tao Malachi]

The light that Tao Malachi refers to as "the initial light that comes from above", is a spiritual light which comes down through the crown chakra into the heart. It is a very intense and bright white light which is sometimes referred to as the Paramatma light. The Fiery Light that Tao Malachi refers to as being like a nuclear force, is a divine light which emanates from God. Normally we are shielded from this light by divine grace, until we have prepared ourself sufficiently to receive the force of its full power and glory. In my experience this light also radiates from (shines through) the body and spiritual heart of a Christed being and through the Christed one, can more easily reach the soul of a person lost in darkness.

Christi
Steve


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jan 05 2010 08:13:04 AM
Message:

It reminded me of this chapter:

http://www.balbro.com/heart/beat12.htm

Search "flame"

You are certainly blessed to see such beautiful things TI. There must be a reason behind this. Perhaps you have worked on the third eye a lot in your past lives.


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jan 05 2010 5:24:06 PM
Message:

Hi Steve, :)
Thank you for that.

quote:
Originally posted by Steve
Like the awakening and working of the kundalini, there comes a point in the sadhana when there is a sufficient opening of the heart and level of surrender that allows the grace of True Source to ignite the flame of love and light within the heart and begin its workings in a more direct and sustained manner. It has a different purpose and function than the kundalini and in ways its purifying effect goes much deeper as it emanates from and touches the core of who we are. When ignited it works in conjunction with the kundalini supporting the sadhana and service to all. Any interference, reacting or controlling can shut it off. It works through non-interference, complete surrender and trust, and with an unconditional love offering of our entire being to Source to be used in service for the benefit of all beings everywhere. It is a most precious gift available to all.



I have never heard of that before although I do recall seeing pictures of Jesus with a flaming heart..

This flame in my heart is quite an interesting phenomenon. During this morning's spinal breathing, I felt the flames rise up from my heart, into my throat and neck and finally into my head, all around the scalp and inside. It was a lovely warm heat and I just let it do it's thing. What a joy it was..


:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jan 05 2010 5:43:22 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by manigma

It reminded me of this chapter:

http://www.balbro.com/heart/beat12.htm

Search "flame"

You are certainly blessed to see such beautiful things TI. There must be a reason behind this. Perhaps you have worked on the third eye a lot in your past lives.



Hi Manigma,
Thanks for the compliment. :) Bless you too!

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jan 05 2010 11:41:46 PM
Message:

Hi :)
I received the book "Sacred Science" by Norman Paulsen yesterday.

I spent 4 hours reading it. I cried through most of the start of the book. This is the first book that explains the different lights, Christ, astral experiences, and many other things that I've experienced. What he has written truly resonates with me. :)

- When I first opened the book, it opened to a picture that looked very similar to what I had seen many years ago when the Holy Ghost was paying a congregation a visit; misty white light descending upon people's heads. This picture was also similar to what I had seen at my last group meditation!

- I loved this part:

quote:

Is Jesus of Nazareth still here on earth today in another dimension, just beyond the frequency of our five senses? Yes. His promised return to help free other travelers has bound him to be nearby, watching. Yes, watching and waiting. He is just beyond the frequency of our vision with physical eyes, but visible to those who have entered other dimensions of consciousness and have full use of the sixth sense, Christ consciousness.



So yes, Christi, one definition of "Christ consciousness" is literally "the ability to see Christ". :)

- Norman Paulsen says that the third eye reflects the visions/images of the chakra that the person is currently in. Perhaps I was more centered in my sacral chakra when I was seeing all those sensual/sexy feminine images? It reflects like a mirror. So, in whichever chakra you are stuck or dominant, that is what you are going to see.

- He says that that very bright light above the crown (the crown is just an opening) is Christ consciousness or the body of Christ.

- He says that by pushing up through the crown (once-soft spot at the top of the head) one can invite or request Christ's consciousness to come down into the body. In fact, his description of Meditation is very similar to AYP spinal breathing except it is more complex; one breathes up and down the spine, one pulses the root three times but does not persist in the root lock, one pauses after breathing the "Breath of Life" up the spine to the third eye, and then pulses the root three times to open the door to Christ's consciousness which reveals the light above the head. Then one visualizes the light (Christ) coming down to the third eye to sit on the throne. After that, the exhale is performed back down to the root with the visualization of the light also coming down. During the ascent and descent of the breath, there are 8 points/chakras that are in the spine that are activated. The extra chakra is directly behind the upper mouth near the medulla.

- He says that you have to activate the Christ consciousness first because if the feminine energy (shakti at the root/kundalini) arouses and cannot find her mate, she will become very displeased and will rise up hissing like a snake.

- He says that the feminine principle rises up and Christ's male energy comes down to meet at the bridal chamber in the heart producing the immaculate conception. A little Christ is born in your heart and if nourished properly, will eventually rise up to take his seat on the throne of God in the third eye.

- He points out the "Eightfold Path" which consists of proper Meditation, Conduct, Study, Speech, Association, Nourishment, Work and Recreation.

- He points out the "Twelve Virtues" which are Loyalty, Patience, Honesty, Perseverence, Compassion, Continence, Equanimity, Courage, Humility, Temperance, Charity and Faith.

- The last picture in the book is a picture of Norman Paulsen standing in the desert next to Paramahansa Yogananda during their last retreat.

- Norman claims that Paramahansa Yogananda appeared to him after he passed on, like Jesus did.


I finished the whole book, all 150 pages..

Then I went to bed.

As soon as I layed down I noticed that whole inside of my body was no longer there. There was brilliant light everywhere. The light/star/Christ-light over the top of my head was brilliant. The whole sushumna was lit up. Well, I couldn't see the sushumna anymore or any distinct 'me' features at all. There was no more body. There was only vast bright colored light everywhere in this infinite space. I marvelled. It was like being a galaxy. Many galaxies. I did not exist, there was only space and an awesome expanse of multi-varied light.

After about an hour or so of watching this spectacle on the inside of me, moving my consciousness inward then outward and back and forth, I realized that I wasn't getting any sleep. I got up and had a drink of water (ok, and a cigarette). Then I went back to bed.

I started to get concerned about falling asleep. I could not. I tried hard. I had the overwhelming feeling that my body was going to fall inwards into this huge space of lights. What a strange sensation!

There was a definate split between the outer world and the inner universe. There was no place to run or find comfort.

I resolved that I should focus on the outer room and focus on sensations like rubbing my hands on the mattress, making noise while breathing, anything I could think of that was of the normal world in order to regain that comfortable thick body/sleep mind feeling. After some twenty minutes of doing this, of dragging my consciousness back into the physical, I must have finally fallen asleep.

Today, I'm trying to fathom what has taken place. I'm very glad to have read Norman Paulsen's "Sacred Science" and will be re-reading it over again a few times.

I'm so happy to know that the light above the head, which I re-discovered recently by seeking the source of the intuitive mantra at the top of the head, that bright white liquid plasma light that is not the crown/pineal, has a name and a use. It is called the light of Christ. Big smiles here!

It also makes me happy that someone else has written about seeing Jesus and the light. Now I know what to tell people: I'm not crazy, I just have my sixth sense active!

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jan 19 2010 11:20:39 PM
Message:

Hi :)
This is an update.
I learned the routine for 'practice' in the Sacred Science book by Norman Paulsen. The first part of the practice is like the AYP spinal breathing except for a few differences:

- you transfer the feeling of breathing to the spine

- you visualize seven chakras (including the one at the top of the neck/medulla area) along the route. The intention is to draw the energies from each chakra into and up the spine all the way to ajna.

- you do not hold the root lock. You simply tense it three times to gather your energy and then you tense three times again at the top of the cycle, to draw down the light from above the head into the ajna.

- When you hit the ajna, you knock three times to open the door to the Christ light over the top of the head and then you draw the light down into the ajna and down through all the rest of the chakras all the way down to the bottom of the spine.

It is a challenging practice and it took me about a week to get it to the point where I had everything sort of working properly. I do enjoy a challenge! I also enjoy a practice where I can put to use the light that I discovered over the top of my head.

During the week of practicing and tuning this form of spinal breathing for the meditation session I was performing mantra repetition or sensing the inner body or various other techniques after the spinal breathing. I guess I'm a creature of habit. At the end of that week I had developed enough competency in the NP (Norman Paulsen) 'spinal breathing' routine that I thought I'd add the NP meditation portion of the practice too.

The meditation portion consists of kechari, sambhavi and then moving your attention back closer to the back of the head nearer to the pineal gland and then sending energy from it to the pituitary gland. Then, you ask "Dear Heavenly Mother and Father, please reveal yourself to me". You are supposed to sit in silence and keep focusing on the third eye area, waiting for a response.

Like I was saying, I discovered this light above my head after 'intuiting' the mantra 'off the top of my head' and by seeking the source of the mantra. Since discovering that light I've had many strange experiences including the discovery that I could push my attention up and down the spine from the inside of the sushumna. So I felt that it was interesting that I had discovered a technique that specifically puts that light to use.

Since the episodes in the light, another part inside my head has been growing. It is not third eye sight, but perhaps it might be although the scenes or viewing field is not at the brow, but more to the back of the head, below the light. It is like a little cartoon world or spot of colorful lights has opened up. It is the same kind of vision as the consciousness that gets pushed up and down the spine from the inside when I switch to internal vision. It's like having a fourth eye.

This fourth eye sits inside the head, more towards the back, below the light which is located over the top of the head. The light at the top has been making the fourth eye brighter and more pronounced. Further, it is opening up more and more almost like you are in a different plane.

Anyway, during my attempt at NP's meditation, I discovered that I could keep my attention in the fourth eye. So I did. I then proceeded to ask "Dear Heavenly Mother and Father please reveal yourselves to me". I kept at it, determined and I waited.

After a few minutes of sitting from the perspective of that fourth eye I saw two cherubs (small naked babies with wings) flying about and being playful. The background looked like clouds of white/pink/blue. The cherubs flew around and played, somewhat mischievously; at one point one of the cherubs was pulling at the other's wings.. being naughty!

Next I saw a scene of the bottom half of a female naked torso that was about to give birth. I examined this splendorous scene for a while, contemplating the origin of the human form and then another scene appeared. This scene was of the middle section of a female body, adorned in golden chains, jewels and red satin. It was so beautiful too. :)

Then, I saw a face that was male, was wearing a golden crown, had a beard and moustache and looked kind of like King Neptune. I wondered if this was the Heavenly Father.. After I saw a lovely female face that had a transparent veil covering part of her face. Both of these faces were not very clear, like they were made of white mist/cloud and I could sense that they were being manifest into a lower realm to make them visible (which was a higher realm for me). Then they were gone.

After the meditation, after contemplating what I had just witnessed, I started to realize that I was overloaded big time. The whole top of my head was gone. Like someone had taken a giant spoon and scooped out the top of my head and brain... a spacious vacuum like a funnel shaped hole, about five inches at the top narrowing down to the center of the head.

When I tried to focus on the top of my skull, all I could feel was this big hole opening up into space. I also felt numb and stupefied. Like someone had clubbed me and left me dazed.

This feeling, the numbness, the space, no more top half of the head persisted for over seven days!!! It's a wonder I even got through the work week! Only today, nine days later, do I feel like I have a top half of the head and that I'm coming out of zombie land. Is this what is meant by premature crown opening?

Needless to say, during those nine days I quit all regular practices and instead just sat quietly sensing the inner body or doing nothing at all. I did that for practice all week, hoping that it would help me recover. This has been by far the absolute worst overload I've ever experienced. A part of me deep down inside kept telling me not to worry, that my brain was being re-wired to awaken the silent parts.

A few days ago I did a 'watch your thoughts' meditation and the light at the top of my head was so bright and wonderful. It seems to be getting purer and whiter. It is such a lovely light. Some of my thoughts appear directly under the light and they are quite visible.

Gradually, I started testing the light again. I kind of developed a fear of overload and I didn't know exactly what caused it. The light is still there. I've also found that now I can stay in the fourth eye vision during spinal breathing. I can visualize the seven chakras (including the light over the top of the head) and the path up and down the spine from this internal perspective. It is as though it all exists in another plane. I haven't done a complete session yet from the 'fourth eye' perspective because it is hard to stay in it. It requires a lot effort and non-reaction to a successful cycle.

Also, during my recent meditation sessions, I will all of a sudden find myself in another dimension. For example, once I found myself sitting in a room with other people in it, with wooden chairs and a wooden floor. It reminded me of the 1800's. This was/is different from the visions because I felt like I was actually there, not just watching a scene on a screen.

The other thing that amazes me is this. I've discovered that during the NP spinal breathing, I'm experiencing ecstatic conductivity as the light comes down my spine! This has been quite a revelation. Before, the ecstatic conductivity had only occurred on the in-breath, as the attention/prana went up the spine. I do not ever recall feeling ecstatic conductivity as the attention went down the spine. So now I'm thinking that there must be a network of pleasure sensing nerves in that area of the spine and it doesn't matter which direction the prana/lifeforce comes from, it still activates it. This has implications which would perhaps challenge the conventional theory of kundalini rising.. or perhaps indicates that top-down risings are possible..

Oh, I also finished Norman Paulsen's book called "Christ Consciousness". This book is filled with fantastic stories. Did you know that Norman Paulsen's father was blind, but he could still 'see' (as well as transport himself to other locations)? His father supposedly taught Houdini how to see through a blindfold. Norman has written about flying saucers, adventures with Yogananda, healings, miracles, beings from other planets, history of the world and more. It's taking my brain a while to digest it all. My initial reaction, one which I am still wrestling with, is that Norman wasn't quite all there. I mean, at one point, Norman describes how the light came down through his head, projected out through his ajna and dissolved the Devil. This is by far the most surreal fantastic book I've ever read that isn't supposed to be fiction.. I'm wondering if NP's version of spinal breathing is the true Kriya Yoga technique as taught by Yogananda..

All the best,
Good luck with your practices..

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jan 26 2010 12:59:29 AM
Message:

Hi,

What I have learned from my very recent experiences is this:

1) There is a light/star above my head. I don't know what to call it, I kind of like the term Christ's Light but it's only a term. Words are only words.

2) During Norman Paulsen's style of spinal breathing, which I have been practicing now for over two weeks, I can draw that light down to the third eye then the medulla and right down my spine from inside the sushumna. It feels ecstatic. I like his method because you do not perform any lower body locks at all (except the 'upper' sambhavi and kechari). Instead, you simple tense the root three times to gather your energies to send them up the spine and then it's back to relaxtion mode.. I find it helps me go deeper into relaxation.. I end up in such a deep meditative state that I just love it.

3) After doing this form of spinal breathing for a few weeks now, I've really noticed that the brahman cave at the center of my head has really opened up, the other cave behind the brow is much more pronounced and there is a concentrated 'eye' at the back of my head. My visions have become an adventure in 'other realities'. I've also noticed that during meditation time is slowing down, that is, thoughts occur in slow motion and the simple visions and sensory data are breaking apart into slices!

4) I've also drawn the light into a sore tooth and the tooth hasn't bothered me since. That's what the SRF lessons teach: to draw the light and direct it.

I'm now doing 'sitting in silence' meditation. I focus the gaze through the eyes from the medulla point of view towards the third eye and I am 'impassionately aware of everything', but with a stern gaze and super-relaxation (sensing the inner body). My main intention is to take everything in and not be affected by it..

During tonight's meditation, I saw a muddy river with a brilliant radiant light glistening on the waves. I saw myself in a previous life, with black hair and a beard. I heard myself singing a song of love to God with my hands joined in the symbol of prayer pointing towards the blue sky. I knew the song that I was singing, it struck at the base of my heart and resonated so deeply!!! A part of me started singing along with it until I realized what I was doing. I was taken aback and was totally amazed. I went back 'in' and sang along with a few more songs. "Kurubana..." The language was foreign to me but it sounded so familiar. It was a wonderful experience and when I decided to finally pull myself back, it was 1 hour and 8 minutes later. Beats TV any day!

I now believe that drawing the light down from the star above the head into the spine is definately expanding my chakras and is very beneficial.

So if anyone believes that chakras, the light and the bindu may not have anything to do with "legitimate practice" I do hope that you'll agree that there are many roads to the same place.


:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Feb 01 2010 11:38:59 PM
Message:

Hi,
This is an update.
For the past few days I had been performing this routine:
1) Prayers
2) Breath of Fire (bhastrika) 1 min.
3) NP Spinal Breathing ~10 min.
4) Meditation: Focus on the brahman chamber in the back center of the head and watch the thoughts.

During those meditations I passed through the dream stage (as the dream visions appear I ignore them and keep focusing on the center of the head, at the other multi-colored lights.) Various other physical sensations, like the body melting into waves or pulses, feeling like you are in a different plane of existence, popping in and out of astral dreams/visions etc occured.

A few days ago I saw someone else had posted their experiences with the Eckhart Tolle "sensing the inner body" practice. They also stated that Maitreya advocated a similar practice (never heard of him before..) I have also been re-reading the book "The Discourse Summaries" by S.N. Goenka, in which the practice is to equanimously focus your attention on each and every part of the body until a sensation is felt. I also recall reading in the Pali that Buddha mentions that mindfulness of the body is a great practice, one which not only speeds one way to enlightenment but helps to understand the mysteries that lie within.

So,,.. to make a long story short, I went back to 'sensing the inner body' today. I had quit it as a regular practice because I wasn't sleeping much at night and I kind of got sick of feeling like I was on the verge of orgasm for hours on end.

Today's practice was this:
1) Prayers
2) Breath of Fire (1 min to clear the nostrils and balance ida and pingala)
3) NP Spinal Breathing ~12 minutes
4) 30 minutes "Sensing the inner body" with kechari but no sambhavi. (Kechari seems to stop the pain and pressure I get in the upper neck and lower skull if I don't do it). Again, it was such a pleasureable experience that it was very hard to pull out and I went over my allocated time span.

The usual symptoms during meditation prevailed. There seems to be a set pattern. After 6 minutes or so, I was aware of the heat body or warm envelope that encompasses the body. After about 14 minutes, my breath becomes very shallow and pauses at the end of the exhales. As the pauses grow, the third eye lights appear which I ignore. I also make an effort not to focus on the light above my head.

I monitor my breath; if I am thinking too much my breathing speeds up. My object is to just let go and relax enough that the mind stops and hopefully the breathing will stop too. To become the watcher, not the doer. At the bottom of each breath I find myself in a large dark space where I can see other beings (immobile dark clay statues?) and fine filaments of light.

After the meditation was over I felt so wonderful! I felt like a cloud of bliss and very fine tingles, like I had turned into an etheric being that was overlaying my body. The body felt separate. The stillness and bliss were very pronounced. There was also a distinct sexual energy mixing into the etheric waves. I just wanted to sit there and enjoy, so I did! - until I finally decided to make something to eat.

Again, a few hours later, now the perineum is pulsing and the feeling is way too intense. I like to describe the sensation as "if it gets any more intense I will be crawling the walls in a short time". I wonder how I can transform that into something more palateable, perhaps with the heart? Hmmm..

Now, there is no doubt in my mind that 'sensing the inner body' is a very powerful practice and that most of it's symptoms and effects are consistently reproduceable. The other symptom which I have yet to verify is this: Insomnia - watching the body sleep throughout the night as lights dance in your head. I wonder if this will happen again. It should be interesting.. This might be a hard path to follow..

:)
TI

Note: the practices described in this post are not standard AYP practices.


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Feb 15 2010 11:37:22 PM
Message:

Hi,
Here is an update.
About a week ago I decided to check out TM because I never had the feeling that I was performing mantra repetition correctly and I had read a few posts on this forum that the AYP Deep Meditation was the same as TM (Transcendental Meditation).

After a few hours of 'research' I found this website which contains the instructions for TM and some of the 'checking routine'.
link: http://www.trancenet.net/secrets/ch.../steps.shtml

What impressed me the most about the instructions for TM was this:

quote:

In this meditation, we do not concentrate, we do not try to think the mantra clearly. Mental repetition is not a clear pronunciation. It is just a faint idea. We don't try to make a rhythm of the mantra. We don't try to control thoughts. We do not wish th at thoughts should not come. If a thought comes, we do not try to push it out. We don't feel sorry about it. When a thought comes, the mind is completely absorbed in the thought.



and again, the bolded text in this one:
quote:

"When we become aware that we are not thinking the mantra, then we quietly come back to the mantra. Very easily we think the mantra and if at any moment we feel that we are forgetting it, we should not try to persist in repeating it. Only very easily we start and take it as it comes and do not hold the mantra if it tends to slip away.



The main idea that I get from these instructions is that you do not forcefully repeat the mantra or even repeat the mantra. You do not manipulate the mantra in any way. You do not stretch the mantra out and focus on the syllables (like I did to help focus on it). You do not visualize the letters in the mantra. You simply 'think' the mantra and try to focus on the characteristics of the mantra ( the sound, the feeling, it's essence etc) until the mantra dissolves away or a thought comes up and distracts you. However, sometimes a thought comes up and distracts you but the mantra is still sounding/echoing/reverberating so at that time I just switch attention back to the mantra.

Anyway, I have been trying this form of mantra repetition on and off for about a week. I'm comparing the effects.

The first time I tried the TM style meditation, the "I AM" mantra was clearly visible in my Brahmin cave (the space in the center of the head in back of the pineal gland). I could see the letters "I AM" as shining letters. So I would pulse the "I AM" and look at the letters, listen to the sound and focus on it until I got distracted or a thought or vision became more pronounced. Then I would return to the mantra. If the mantra disappeared I would then pulse the "I AM" back into existence. By "pulse" I mean I would intend the mantra or locate it again in the Brahmin cave. Most of the time, I would just move my attention back to the correct loction in the cave and the mantra would still be there.

That first time I tried that style of mantra repetition, I passed through the dream layers of consciousness and found myself in a space of totally white light and there was something that I felt was 'me' in it. It only lasted for a few seconds as I was kind of surprised and it startled me. But it was a lovely very quiet space!

The second time I tried that style of mantra repetition (on the following day) I again found myself in a space of white light. The white light is very bright and it feels like someone has pulled a shower curtain of white light all the way around you. But this time, the 'me' was more pronounced. I believe I was looking at my 'I' thought. It felt like 'me'. I resembled a small clump of greyish white light like a cloud. The cloud felt like 'me' and the way I know is because it felt like me, or my ego, of the part of me I love.

Then it occured to me that if I was watching 'me', who was it that was watching me? I tried to focus on that but lost it. The amazement of finding my 'I' thought was too disruptive/exciting to contain. Part of me just got too excited to continue and I popped out..

Just for experimentation's sake, the following few days I returned to the mechanical, repetitive method of repeating the mantra. It left me hot in the face and I admit that I didn't get that 'deep'. After a few old style meditation sessions I started to realize a tremendous desire to re-enter the white light space with the "I" thought in it.

So, today, I went back to the non-repetitive, non-mechanical 'create the mantra, wait until it dissolves and re-create or locate it again' method (how I interpret the TM instructions).

During my afternoon meditation, when I first started and turned my eyes and attention upwards, the light at the top of my head was brilliant, bright white and shining in full splendour. Surprise! Surprise! No effort or focusing, too hard to miss, couldn't ignore it and it wasn't going away. I dropped my attention and my gaze downwards and then brought them up again and the white light was still there. It was so easy. I was very surprised. I decided to go with it.

I then proceeded with the 'I AM' ala TM style meditation, but I could not see the letters of the mantra because there was way too much light going on. I continued on with the meditation, saw the dream consciousness state with it's visions pass by. All I could see was the colorful parts of the dream visions because the light was drowning the rest out. I ended up in this plane of bright light, moving pastel colors and lots and lots of wonderful white light pouring down on me.

I have no idea what happened or what caused it. I suspect that I'm getting deeper into my superconsciousness by releasing the mantra and following it to it's disintegration. I suspect that by mechanically repeating the mantra during the previous years of mantra repetition and by attempting to sustain focus and awarenss on the mantra, I had converted a meditation which was supposed to be about letting go, into an excercise of concentration. Although eventually, when I really gave an effort and sustained focusing on the 'I' I did reach a state of samadhi, but those occurences were few and far between. Now I'm convinced that there are many ways to perform mantra repetition, and some methods are not only more profitable than others, but that incorrect practice could definately hinder one's progress.

To this day I still feel like I have not found the 'inner silence' during mantra meditation. I have found some very quiet spaces but in those quiet spaces there have always existed the visions and/or lights/colors so I still don't know if this would qualify as 'inner silence'.


:)
TI


Reply author: yogani
Replied on: Feb 16 2010 10:10:54 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

To this day I still feel like I have not found the 'inner silence' during mantra meditation. I have found some very quiet spaces but in those quiet spaces there have always existed the visions and/or lights/colors so I still don't know if this would qualify as 'inner silence'.


Hi TI:

It is because for the most part you are not meditating, which is a very simple and consistent procedure. Instead, you are totally into observing the "scenery," analyzing it, endlessly modifying the practice to play in it, reporting on it, etc. That is not meditation. If you just let go of all that and do the simple procedure, no matter what, you will experience inner silence in no time. And, in time, you will become inner silence 24/7. That is worth a million times all the scenery we could ever have. It's not about the scenery. When you get that, you will be meditating like a champ.

All the best!

The guru is in you.

PS: Have you read the AYP Deep Meditation Book? I mean really read it? If you want abiding inner silence (the peace that surpasses all understanding), that will tell you how. The rest is up to you.


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Feb 16 2010 10:43:08 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by yogani

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

To this day I still feel like I have not found the 'inner silence' during mantra meditation. I have found some very quiet spaces but in those quiet spaces there have always existed the visions and/or lights/colors so I still don't know if this would qualify as 'inner silence'.


Hi TI:

It is because for the most part you are not meditating, which is a very simple and consistent procedure. Instead, you are totally into observing the "scenery," analyzing it, endlessly modifying the practice to play in it, reporting on it, etc. That is not meditation. If you just let go of all that and do the simple procedure, no matter what, you will experience inner silence in no time. And, in time, you will become inner silence 24/7. That is worth a million times all the scenery we could ever have. It's not about the scenery. When you get that, you will be meditating like a champ.

All the best!

The guru is in you.

PS: Have you read the AYP Deep Meditation Book? I mean really read it? If you want abiding inner silence (the peace that surpasses all understanding), that will tell you how. The rest is up to you.




Hi Yogani :)
Thank you for your response. Yes, I have read the AYP Deep Meditation Book a few times but I will re-read it once more.

Are you saying that there are no lights that can be seen during inner silence and that if you see lights you are not in inner silence? Is inner silence black or formless?

Thanks.
:)
TI


Reply author: yogani
Replied on: Feb 16 2010 11:54:24 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

Are you saying that there are no lights that can be seen during inner silence and that if you see lights you are not in inner silence? Is inner silence black or formless?


Hi TI:

Not saying that at all. Experiences can be anything. Anything at all. Today they are one thing. Tomorrow they will be something else. It does not matter what they are. I am not saying that experiences are to be shunned or condemned. I am saying that the content of experiences is not relevant during the simple procedure of meditation.

So why do you keep asking about content? The fixation on content in meditation is an obstacle. If you can regard that need for content to be like any other thought and easily favor the mantra whenever the "sight-seer" appears in a session, you will have it. As long as you are actively looking for content to evaluate, favoring that, you will not be meditating.

You can be a tourist, or you can be a meditator. But you can't be both at the same time. You do have a choice, you know. Nothing is etched in stone.

The guru is in you.


Reply author: Ananda
Replied on: Feb 17 2010 04:57:03 AM
Message:

hi Yogani and TI, i used to have a lot of beautiful spiritual scenery happening during and outside of practices and used to contemplate a lot on them and read about them bcz you will always find smthg written about such scenery somewhere out there.

but somewhere along the road of Self enquiry i found that they just bring in more mental baggage even though it's subtle so i dropped the desire for having these experiences and somehow they stopped being so frequent as before and now there's just inner silence and ecstasy present and some overloading symptoms here and there(and the honey like light are always present to some subtle extent) but things are for the best at general after all the heavy self pacing i've been doing.

anyways Yogani and TI, not all yogies seem to agree on this scenery thing.

i've been reading play of consciousness by Swami Muktananada lately and that guy seems to differ from you a lot concerning engaging that scenery stuff.

cz whereas you tell us not to step in the golden chariot when it comes, Muktananda stepped in and went to tandraloka and kept on visiting there frequently and that helped him or enriched his spiritual path somehow and he kept on having an intense desire for spiritual experiences and visions... and i haven't finished the book yet but the guy seems to have made it all the way (even though i have some doubt about that taking in consideration his ill behavior with some of his disciples.)

but in general if you'd ask me to choose between scenery and everlasting still peace; the answer is simple i'd choose peace of mind with folded eyes.

namaste


Reply author: yogani
Replied on: Feb 17 2010 10:25:35 AM
Message:

Hi Ananda and TI:

We can have all the scenery, but should not forget that it is the cultivation of inner silence that produces the scenery, not the other way around. When we are meditating, that is one thing. When we are riding off to Tandraloka, that is something else. We cannot do both at the same time. That is the point.

That's why when we are meditating and that golden chariot rolls up, we will be wise to favor the mantra. The chariot will also be there later, especially if we have been effective in our meditation practice over time. Abiding inner silence is the doorway to everything, not the least of which is the end of suffering.

The guru is in you.


Reply author: Ananda
Replied on: Feb 17 2010 11:13:49 AM
Message:

hi Yogani, i honestly couldn't care less about any loka or scenery; i am pro AYP's simple approach away from risky pitfalls... was just pointing out that there are paths who differ than the one here in their approach and they do get there in the end... but then again in all these paths it's always steady practices first enjoy the scenery later...

L&L


Reply author: Anthem
Replied on: Feb 17 2010 5:04:38 PM
Message:

Seems like a pretty straight forward point Yogani is making. When you are meditating favour the mantra.

When outside of sitting practices enjoy the scenery all you want.

If you follow this script, you get more inner silence and hence scenery to enjoy outside of practices.


Reply author: michaelangelo7
Replied on: Feb 17 2010 6:29:45 PM
Message:

taken from siddha yoga glossary (muktananda):
BLUE PEARL "a brilliant blue light, the size of a tiny seed, that appears in meditation; it is the subtle abode of the inner Self."

NADA "inner sounds that may be heard during advanced stages of meditation; nada may take the form of sounds such as bells, the blowing of a conch, and thunder."


taken from bhagavan nityananda (muktanandas guru): "He refers to this as Prana Vayu and emphatically states that this is the only means to directing your awareness to become absorbed in Bindu Nada (point of sound experienced in the Heart space in the head). Once your mind dissolves in this Bindu Nada, Mukti is attained. The goal of meditation, he tells us, is to keep our awareness in this Bindu Nada, even while going about our daily, mundane activities. This, he states is true Dhyan and Dharana. This alone is Samadhi. It is the means to live in the world without being of the world and it can only be taught by a Siddha Guru."

why would you favor a word/mantra over cosmic sound/OM and light that created this very universe? and there is a difference between ocassional scenery and something that is always there when you reach a certain stage ie: bindu or nada. If bindu(light) or nada is not appearing it is because you have not achieved inner silence because nada is that sound in silence.
"I am OM, the sacred word of the vedas, sound in silence, heroism in men"-bhagavad gita, Lord Krishna


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Feb 17 2010 7:12:13 PM
Message:

Hi Michael,

Yogani once said that nadi kriya (meditating on the divine sound) had been deliberately left out of AYP because it was not always available as a meditation object. I imagine the same goes for meditating on divine lights.


Reply author: michaelangelo7
Replied on: Feb 17 2010 10:09:38 PM
Message:

I agree for beginners it is best to visualize the deity or mentally chant a mantra, but when the yogi is able to concentrate on light and sound, he should do so


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Feb 18 2010 12:25:37 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by yogani

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

Are you saying that there are no lights that can be seen during inner silence and that if you see lights you are not in inner silence? Is inner silence black or formless?


Hi TI:

Not saying that at all. Experiences can be anything. Anything at all. Today they are one thing. Tomorrow they will be something else. It does not matter what they are. I am not saying that experiences are to be shunned or condemned. I am saying that the content of experiences is not relevant during the simple procedure of meditation.

So why do you keep asking about content? The fixation on content in meditation is an obstacle. If you can regard that need for content to be like any other thought and easily favor the mantra whenever the "sight-seer" appears in a session, you will have it. As long as you are actively looking for content to evaluate, favoring that, you will not be meditating.

You can be a tourist, or you can be a meditator. But you can't be both at the same time. You do have a choice, you know. Nothing is etched in stone.

The guru is in you.




Hi Yogani, :)
Thank you for your response.

Well, there are many things I'd like to say.

First off, I have re-read the Deep Meditation book again (last night).

Many times in that book you refer to 'thinking the mantra' and yet you say that value of the mantra is in the sound of the mantra.

Just to be clear, there is a difference to me between thinking the mantra and silently subvocalizing the mantra. When I think the mantra I see the words; I see the letters "I AM". I do not visualize them, they just appear in my head. When I am concentrating like that I also see thoughts. In order to think the mantra I have to raise my consciousness to be separate from the subvocalization process. It is not hard, I just disengage the connection to the breath or abdomen and focus more on the light realm by increasing the frequency and location of the manifestation of the mantra. It is in the realm of pure thought. It is at a higher frequency level than the sound spectrum. However, when I do that, there is very little audible vibration from the mantra as it becomes very subtle because it is made of light at that point. Should I be silently subvocalizing the mantra because it is the coarser vibrations from the sound of the mantra that does the work? I'm not exactly clear on what 'thinking the mantra' means.

The other thing I am still not clear about is the rapidity of the repetition of the mantra. What is a normal pattern? What should one start out with? Is it 'easily think the mantra, pause 1/2 a second and then repeat'? Do you end up with a steady stream of mantra repetitions? Or do you think the mantra once and then focus on the sound, the resonance as it lives and then dies? And then, once it is gone, you 'think the mantra' once again? Is it the repetitive pattern that you are referring to when you say 'each time we "lose" the mantra, we have gone through a natrual shift in our attention. page 15' or is it a single "I AM"? By now you must think I'm incredibly thick but I can conceive of thinking the mantra once, taking my time and waiting until it dies and then repeating it once again. This time span could be 5 seconds later.. So perhaps you would be thinking "I AM" 12 times per minute? What should a beginner start out at?

And my last mantra question is this: Do you just think "I AM" or do you stretch it out into variations of "AAAAAYYYYAAAAAAAMMMMM" lasting a second or longer (like 10 seconds) etc.?

I can appreciate what you are saying, that the practice is what purifies and causes occurences of inner silence. As you practice, the inner silence grows. I have experienced inner silence twice during mantra repetition when I first started out (using the subvocalization process of mantra repetition), and yes, I did experience the bliss and quiet that you described in the "Deep Meditation" book without lights or visions. It didn't last very long and it was far and few in between. But what happenend is that after that, each time I would hit that silence, I would see lights or visions or be transformed into some other reality (large empty space, other dimension or plane etc). Actually, the silence and peace was very similar to the experiences that I've had when I've visited heaven. And perhaps it is just my way of thinking but, after hitting inner silence and seeing that it was full of light, it only seemed natural that the next step is to do something with the light. This led me into researching the nimittas and jhanas, the clear white light and the christ consciousness light above the head. ( a while ago).

This is the reason I keep asking about whether or not inner silence is dark or light, and nobody seems to want to answer me.

If someone were to say "the light is not part of the formless state" and inner silence is formless, has no light in it, then at least I would know. I do notice, however, that even in your "Deep Meditation" book you say (page 80) "Discover the light within and you know my light".

The other fascinating thing about your Deep Meditation teaching is this. Conventionally, the term "meditation" refers to a concentrative state. This is what I grew up learning: Meditation is focusing your attention on something until you become one with the object of contemplation. You find this "steady concentrative method of meditation" everywhere, in most teachings. I think it is the norm, not the exception. Then, there is TM and Deep Meditation. This methodology seems to be the opposite, that is, there is no intense concentration, instead, there is "easily repeating the mantra, letting go, floating away until 'bingo' you are there in the utter depths of consciousness", your mind has stopped and the Witness appears.

Certainly this is a far easier method than directed concentrative meditational techniques which require effort, discipline and persistence (if you can get the practice correct). And, if inner silence is the absolute bottom or center of the depths of consciousness (or no mind) and you can get there by performing just Deep Meditation, well then certainly it is one of the most powerful techniques available. If it is possible to get 'there', bypassing all the planes, lights, beings, angels and other phenomenon through Deep Meditation, then this is perhaps the fastest easiest route. I can see where getting hung up on "scenery" would definately be a hinderence. It would also be hard to convince people that they could skip all the stages, all the jhanas and astral/higher planes/ beings/realizations etc.

Just to be clear, I do not seek out scenery during meditation. I only want to discover the truth of what life is and what I am. I do not start my meditations thinking "Ok this time I'm going to visit a certain plane or meet a specific being". I do not try to create the light. The light is always there (above my head). Sometimes it is brighter than other times. My goal during meditation is to become silent, truly silent, to stop the mind, to split out awareness from consciousness, to behold the truth of existence, to become enlightened.

So if Deep Meditation is the most powerful meditation for becoming "THAT" just so long as you don't get stuck on the scenery, I'm all for it. I do long for that inner silence/bliss/peace. I will give it another try. I have gone back to mantra repetition. I hope I am performing it correctly.

Just a few more questions. I'm so used to putting my tongue on the palatte/epiglotis (have been for 2 1/2 years) that when I don't do that, I get a headache from mantra repetition. Do you think I should try to drop that practice during meditation? I know you've said that sambhavi splits the mind during meditation and I have dropped that one (did today). I'm willing to start over to see what happens.

Also, do you think I should silently subvocalize the mantra rather than watching the thought appear in the cave in the back center of my head?

Thank you so much.

:)
TI







Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Feb 18 2010 02:41:58 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

To this day I still feel like I have not found the 'inner silence' during mantra meditation. I have found some very quiet spaces but in those quiet spaces there have always existed the visions and/or lights/colors so I still don't know if this would qualify as 'inner silence'.


Hi TI

Maybe its related or not releated with you, the following story came to my mind:

...Ramakrishna would sit with his eyes closed and he would soon be feeling very blissful. Totapuri asked him what was happening? He said he was seeing the mother goddess. Totapuri would not accept this as defeat. He said that if Ramakrishna was seeing the goddess Kali, what was there in it to be so overjoyed about? "All this is imagination -- this mother and this goddess -- all this is your own projection."

Ramakrishna said, "It might be so, but it is immensely blissful." Totapuri said that if he wanted to remain satisfied with this bliss he would never know the ultimate bliss. Ramakrishna then asked him what he should do. Totapuri suggested that there was a method: "When you begin to see Kali, immediately take a sword and cut her into two pieces." Ramakrishna asked from where he would get a sword...


You can read further here: http://www.balbro.com/heart/beat15.htm

Ramakrishna came to know the real SAMADHI only in the last days of his life, through a mystic, Totapuri. Totapuri helped him to get out of this third state and to enter the fourth.

All the chanting of mantras is nothing but an effort to create suspension of awareness.

In Sanskrit we have two words for sleep; one is NIDRA. NIDRA means ordinary sleep, natural sleep; every night you go into it. The other word is TANDRA; TANDRA means deliberately created sleep. It can be translated as 'hypnosis'. Hypnosis also means sleep, but a different quality is attached to hypnosis: it is deliberate, it is created, it is not natural.


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Feb 18 2010 05:20:19 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by michaelangelo7

I agree for beginners it is best to visualize the deity or mentally chant a mantra, but when the yogi is able to concentrate on light and sound, he should do so



Hi Michael,

Why? Why not simply continue practice with the mantra. If someone were to be changing their meditation object every time inner lights or sounds appear, they could end up in the state of confusion that TI has got himself into, no?

Christi


Reply author: Anthem
Replied on: Feb 18 2010 09:23:15 AM
Message:

quote:
why would you favor a word/mantra over cosmic sound/OM and light that created this very universe? and there is a difference between ocassional scenery and something that is always there when you reach a certain stage ie: bindu or nada. If bindu(light) or nada is not appearing it is because you have not achieved inner silence because nada is that sound in silence.
"I am OM, the sacred word of the vedas, sound in silence, heroism in men"-bhagavad gita, Lord Krishna


Hi michaelangelo7,

Your quote here answers that question indirectly. The mantra itself at its source is as sacred as any other object in creation. The mantra is an emanation of God.


Reply author: yogani
Replied on: Feb 18 2010 09:57:21 AM
Message:

Hi TI:

Any or all of the variations in experience (and mantra) you mentioned above are fine. The particulars are not important. What is important is the intention.

If the intention is to favor the mantra when we realize we are off it, and allow it to go however it will (patterns do not matter), then this will lead to losing (refinement) of the mantra, which is the cultivation of inner silence. This is the process we keep repeating easily for the allotted time of our meditation session.

If the intention is to analyze, control, question, modify, report, etc., this will not be meditation. And it will not matter what system of meditation we may be following. All meditation procedures involve systematically going beyond the object, whether it be mantra, breath, nada, vision, sensation, concept, or whatever.

It is dharana (attention on an object), becoming dhyana (natural dissolving of the object), becoming samadhi (absorption in inner silence). These are the last three limbs of the eight limbs of yoga, which gives an indication of how important this process is in the overall scheme of yoga. Samyama also utilizes these three limbs, in a different way.

Obviously, choosing and sticking with a method of meditation is important. We can't cross the vast ocean of samsara (impurity/illusion) in two or more boats at the same time. It is all about developing and maintaining consistency in practice over time.

This is the only question we need to be asking ourselves about meditation: "Am I in a consistent practice with a proven method?" All the rest is diversion.

We can never, ever, ever! put it in a mental bottle. Meditation is about emptying the bottle, and dissolving the bottle. So all this talk is not very relevant - only to get rid of doubts about the simplicity of sitting down and doing it every day. That's all. If it is going to keep going in endless circles of mental analysis, etc., don't expect any serious meditator to take that ride with you for long. It is not about creating complexity. It is about releasing into simplicity. Meditation is for that.

The guru is in you.


Reply author: adamantclearlight
Replied on: Feb 18 2010 11:01:47 AM
Message:

TI,

Yogani is saying, let go the mantra in inner silence. So let go.

Adamant


Reply author: Yonatan
Replied on: Feb 18 2010 4:54:48 PM
Message:

When I first started with mantra meditation I said in my head "IAM" while moving my lips a little, I couldn't do it any other way, it doesn't matter. it still worked.


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Feb 18 2010 9:44:20 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by manigma

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

To this day I still feel like I have not found the 'inner silence' during mantra meditation. I have found some very quiet spaces but in those quiet spaces there have always existed the visions and/or lights/colors so I still don't know if this would qualify as 'inner silence'.


Hi TI

Maybe its related or not releated with you, the following story came to my mind:

...Ramakrishna would sit with his eyes closed and he would soon be feeling very blissful. Totapuri asked him what was happening? He said he was seeing the mother goddess. Totapuri would not accept this as defeat. He said that if Ramakrishna was seeing the goddess Kali, what was there in it to be so overjoyed about? "All this is imagination -- this mother and this goddess -- all this is your own projection."

Ramakrishna said, "It might be so, but it is immensely blissful." Totapuri said that if he wanted to remain satisfied with this bliss he would never know the ultimate bliss. Ramakrishna then asked him what he should do. Totapuri suggested that there was a method: "When you begin to see Kali, immediately take a sword and cut her into two pieces." Ramakrishna asked from where he would get a sword...


You can read further here: http://www.balbro.com/heart/beat15.htm

Ramakrishna came to know the real SAMADHI only in the last days of his life, through a mystic, Totapuri. Totapuri helped him to get out of this third state and to enter the fourth.
...



Hi Manigma :)
Thank you for your input. I appreciate it.
You know, I did some quick research about that story by Osho and I wonder where he got it from. According to this excerpt from the Wiki, Totapuri helped Ramakrishna enter nirvikalpa samadhi, but did not succeed in killing Kali. For, if he had truly killed Kali, how could Mother Kali instruct Ramakrishna to "remain in Bhavamukha; for the enlightenment of the people"?
link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramakrishna
quote:

Totapuri and Vedanta

The Panchavati and the hut where Ramakrishna performed his advaitic sadhana. The mud hut has been replaced by a brick one.In 1865, Ramakrishna was initiated into sannyasa by Tota Puri, an itinerant monk who trained Ramakrishna in Advaita Vedanta , the Hindu philosophy which emphasizes non-dualism.[61][62]

Totapuri first guided Ramakrishna through the rites of sannyasa—renunciation of all ties to the world. Then he instructed him in the teaching of advaita—that "Brahman alone is real, and the world is illusory; I have no separate existence; I am that Brahman alone."[63] Under the guidance of Totapuri, Ramakrishna reportedly experienced nirvikalpa samadhi, which is considered to be the highest state in spiritual realisation.[64]

Totapuri stayed with Ramakrishna for nearly eleven months and instructed him further in the teachings of advaita. After the departure of Totapuri, Ramakrishna reportedly remained for six months in a state of absolute contemplation.[65] Ramakrishna said that this period of nirvikalpa samadhi came to an end when he received a command from the Mother Kali to "remain in Bhavamukha; for the enlightenment of the people". Bhavamukha being a state of existence intermediate between samâdhi and normal consciousness.[66]



Further, I disagree with Osho's statement (later in that article) that:
quote:

Kali too is imagination within. An ecstatic dream, but imagination. It is one's own mental projection, it is one's own feelings that have taken a form; it is one's own desires, one's own colors that one has spread within. Kali standing within him and Ramakrishna lying at her feet also within himself... interestingly enough all that is Ramakrishna's own imagined feelings.


Kali is not an imaginary construction that was a product of Ramakrishna's own imagined feelings. Kali is a well documented Hindu Goddess. Within the mystery of unity concsciousness, all things or forms exist within the atman, and perhaps any imagined being becomes a common thought form in the mental plane, and if you really stretch that, I supposed you might allude to that thought form as imaginary. However, if one extends Osho's 'story' to the logical conclusion, is Osho saying that all Hindu Gods and Goddesses are imaginary? How can that be? Once again, I find Osho's creative imagination misinforming and misleading. However, it was entertaining. :)

I can appreciate the thread in Osho's story about not becoming fixated or settling in any particular blissful phase. One must keep progressing and never stop until he/she reaches the final goal. I agree.

When you said "All the chanting of mantras is nothing but an effort to create suspension of awareness.", did you mean perhaps that it is the suspension of consciousness, because as far as I can tell, awareness is everlasting, all pervading and omnipresent therefore it cannot be suspended..

And again, there is another use for mantra repetition. For example, you can activate chakras by "OM'ing" in or at them. This is a Kriya Yoga technique. You can also "AUM" or "OM" your way up and down the sushumna in variations of spinal breathing. It's kind of like using Ajax! Mantra repetition can be a method of focusing prana so it has to be used with care lest you be visiting the self pacing booth to repent and recover.. :)

I hope my being a stickler for detail isn't going to be construed as being negative or destructive. I do appreciate your communications, it's just that I like things to be accurate.

Anyway, thanks again for you input.
:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Feb 18 2010 10:39:52 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi

quote:
Originally posted by michaelangelo7

I agree for beginners it is best to visualize the deity or mentally chant a mantra, but when the yogi is able to concentrate on light and sound, he should do so



Hi Michael,

Why? Why not simply continue practice with the mantra. If someone were to be changing their meditation object every time inner lights or sounds appear, they could end up in the state of confusion that TI has got himself into, no?

Christi



Hi Christi :)
I am not in a state of confusion caused by changing my meditation object as you have implied. :) My quandry is that I used to believe that inner silence was black, had no sound or light in it and resembled a dead zone in which there was no awareness at all, and the only way to discern whether or not one had been there was upon returning from that state, through recollection or memory. But now I believe that inner silence may contain light.

I recall reading a post of yours where you say that inner silence is the space around the thoughts and the mantra. While it is a workable definition (one with which Tolle would agree), because I can imagine all thoughts eventually disolving leaving only the space, it doesn't support my idea that inner silence has a definite doorway or entry point, a transition through which is not gradual but more like being quickly sucked through a black hole and popping into it. Or then again, maybe what I thought was my first few experiences of inner silence was an event of momentarily falling asleep and losing consciousness..

Further with your definition of inner silence, I can well imagine that there could be light, divine or otherwise, but I could not imagine the light dissolving into space or being.. You see, I really have idea what inner silence is. :)

The other thing I would mention is this. While I do believe that mantra repetition is one method that works, there are other methods of spiritual training that rely on variation. There are several reasons for this.
- By varying the objects of meditation, new insights are learned.

- There is a teaching that once the student learns a particular lesson, the lesson is learnt and one moves on to the next step.

- It has been said that one must train the awareness not to attach to anything, hence, one could view any persistent practice as some form of attachment.

- By varying the objects of meditation, one learns to distill the practice from the experience.

- Once the control of awareness is realized by practicing on simple objects, one can use that training to apply it to progressively finer and more difficult objects, such as focusing on "Who am I" or "awareness watching awareness". Also, refer to Patanjali's Samyama practices..

There is also a post I read about where one learns to manipulate one's awareness to enter and then withdraw from the many levels of jhana. Here is a link where that particular technique is being used:

link: http://kennethfolkdharma.wetpaint.c...dy%3A+Monica

quote:

3. Master the four rupa (immaterial) and arupa (immaterial) jhanas, because they are part and parcel of completing the circuit and because they are fun and interesting, and because knowing them inside-out will help you talk to your students about them.
...
2. As a starting place, let's work on the four parameters for mastery of jhana.
I. Adverting to (looking at) the jhana.
II. Entering the jhana.
III. Abiding in the jhana.
IV. Exiting the jhana.

Make a resolution to go to where the jhana lives in the mind. I think of this as a stratum of mind, or like a color of a rainbow (without the color), but you can think of it as a room, or an aspect of heaven, or you can just go directly there without the conceptual baggage. Hang out there but don't enter the jhana; it's as though you are standing outside a room looking in. This is adverting. Notice that you can zip around and advert to any jhana in any order without necessarily entering it. This is access consciousness and it is very flexible. From here you can do dry vipassana or enter jhana. By the way, the dry vipassana approach involves adverting to jhanas and exploring them via vipassana as they arise, but not entering them.



Here is a small excerpt from the practitioner's report:
quote:

Resolution to advert to all 8 jhanas. Easy and when got to 8 decided it would be good idea to go backwards this time. Turned out to be a great idea!
Jhana 8 yes/no in/out
Jhana 7 blank! need for subtle wiping away of thoughts--presence felt
Jhana 6 ITS TRUE --THE WITNESS IS BOUNDLESS! like the waves of the ocean--a tad trite in the writing but not in the experiencing--7 minutes just within THAT! HOME!
Jhana 5 picking up some boundaries here--boundless but harder to do in some way

Jhana 4 narrowing into "life here" more--witness is just the whole barnyard and its OK
Jhana 3 I am watching in a little world of local time/space/senses
Jhana 2 Just the witness of "her" world--with its impermanence, suffering and sensing of a seperate sense of self to not. Deep sense of compassion also noticed as part of the witness.
Jhana 1 The balance and advice to "do not absorb into your own world or thoughts--stay present and absorb into witness! A sensing that this may be the strata of mind to keep as nearby as possible throughout the day in order to keep the balance.




Granted, simply repeating the mantra and entering stillness is by far the simplest, easiest method compared to learning all the different jhanas and then jumping in and out of them. I'm just mentioning all of this because I guess I like pointing out that for every idea there seems to be an opposite and equally valid idea, or even better, there is a plethora of variations of spiritual teachings!

I think it is important to find something that works.
Today, I was reading an Oprah interview with Thich Jhat Hanh and it said this:
link: http://www.oprah.com/spirit/Oprah-T...-Nhat-Hanh/8
quote:

Nhat Hanh: I know that we do not know enough. We have to continue to learn. We have to be open. And we have to be ready to release our knowledge in order to come to a higher understanding of reality. When you climb a ladder and arrive on the sixth step and you think that is the highest, then you cannot come to the seventh. So the technique is to abandon the sixth in order for the seventh step to be possible. And this is our practice, to release our views. The practice of nonattachment to views is at the heart of the Buddhist practice of meditation. People suffer because they are caught in their views. As soon as we release those views, we are free and we don't suffer anymore.



That sounded so nice. To not have any views! Nothing to dispute, no arguments, no clarifications or interpretations of definitions..

Christi, I hope you are doing well. I appreciate the communications..

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Feb 18 2010 10:51:50 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by adamantclearlight

TI,

Yogani is saying, let go the mantra in inner silence. So let go.

Adamant


Hi Adamant :)
Thanks for your comment.

Thought I'd mention.. I finished the "Bliss of Inner Fire" by Lama Yeshe. What really stuck out is that the crown's drops are referred to as kundalini drops, the implication being that kundalini can be a top-down event too..

The other thing that kind of got me is where he says to begin with you should only practice sparingly, just 5 or 6 times a day, for 1 1/2 hours at most for each sitting!

I think for serious practice it would be wise to have a teacher, as is recommended in the book. I did think it was very interesting to read about how the fire, when brought up the sushumna, melts the drops. This is something I've read about before in other books.

Overall I thought it is a very interesting book and I really liked the simple way in which it is written. Thanks again for pointing that book out.

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Feb 18 2010 11:16:48 PM
Message:

Hi Ananda :)
Thank you for your comments. :)

quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
...
(and the honey like light are always present to some subtle extent)
...



"Play of Consciousness" is an interesting book. Yes, Muktananda's passions did seem to be to travel the higher planes. Have you ever read "This House is on Fire" about Dhyanyogi? link: http://www.dyc.org/

Yes, many gurus have different instructions. There is one body of teachings that says that you should play in the golden light until it forms an arc above your head and turns bright white. That is how to realize the divine light above the head.. To other gurus, perhaps this is just scenery and serves no true purpose, or is unneccessary - merely a distraction. I guess the only way to know is to become enlightened, yet, that doesn't seem to help much either as many gurus who claim to be enlightened have differing instructions and methods..

quote:

but in general if you'd ask me to choose between scenery and everlasting still peace; the answer is simple i'd choose peace of mind with folded eyes.
namaste



You know, when I was a kid I would have chosen the scenery. I've always wanted to astral travel, to go to other planes, to fly anywhere and see everything. I've always wanted to levitate, to become invisible and be truly free. I wanted to learn all the mysteries of the spiritual teachings. I still have that desire to learn as much as possible about existence and the mystery of life. I do admit, the novelty of visiting the other planes has worn off to some degree, and now I'm trying to condition myself to view these occurences with enough equanimity to conquer my excitement and disruptive emotions. Having a base of everlasting still peace sure does seem appealing..

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Feb 18 2010 11:26:54 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by michaelangelo7

I agree for beginners it is best to visualize the deity or mentally chant a mantra, but when the yogi is able to concentrate on light and sound, he should do so


Hi Michaelangelo :)
Thank you for your comments.
Your last statement made me stop and reflect. I realize that there are many different teachings and approaches to spirituality, but your statement reminded me of Patanjali's Yogasutras and his practice of performing samyama on various things. This is a well-known documented practice out of which many other practices have grown.
Perhaps the biggest and best would be to perform Patanjali's samyama on God because the result of the merging (when subject and object become one) would probably be the ultimate.

:)
TI


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Feb 19 2010 12:48:36 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

it's just that I like things to be accurate.

hahaha


Reply author: Ananda
Replied on: Feb 19 2010 02:13:10 AM
Message:

Brother TI, yes i took a look on that book and read a few parts... really liked the guy and his teacher.

much love to you(f)


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Feb 19 2010 05:51:51 AM
Message:

Hi TI,

quote:

Granted, simply repeating the mantra and entering stillness is by far the simplest, easiest method compared to learning all the different jhanas and then jumping in and out of them. I'm just mentioning all of this because I guess I like pointing out that for every idea there seems to be an opposite and equally valid idea, or even better, there is a plethora of variations of spiritual teachings!


That's what can cause so much confusion.

quote:
I recall reading a post of yours where you say that inner silence is the space around the thoughts and the mantra. While it is a workable definition (one with which Tolle would agree), because I can imagine all thoughts eventually disolving leaving only the space, it doesn't support my idea that inner silence has a definite doorway or entry point, a transition through which is not gradual but more like being quickly sucked through a black hole and popping into it. Or then again, maybe what I thought was my first few experiences of inner silence was an event of momentarily falling asleep and losing consciousness..

Further with your definition of inner silence, I can well imagine that there could be light, divine or otherwise, but I could not imagine the light dissolving into space or being.. You see, I really have idea what inner silence is. :)


Inner silence doesn't have anything to do with light or darkness. Silence is the absence of sound. Inner silence is silent, simple as that. Within silence, anything can arise, or not. There can be light, darkness, sounds, form, absence of form. Everything that arises, arises from silence, and disolves into silence. It is the ground of all being.

If you are looking for black holes to be sucked through, so you can pop out the other side, then you may miss the silence.


Christi


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Apr 19 2010 11:05:34 PM
Message:

Hi
This is an update.
After my discussion with Yogani about inner silence, I went back to simple mantra repetition, mentally thinking "I AM", not stretching it out or playing with it. I even dropped all pranayama and went to a routine of deep meditation, 35 mins, three times a day.

What happens to me is as the day wears on, for the second and third meditations, after a few minutes I am immersed in a sea of visions/thoughts/threads. Everywhere I look internally, there is some kind of lighted stream or filament of color that, if I follow it, leads to a vision or dream or some kind of scene. I notice this and return to the mantra but the mantra is very small and does not last long. When I extricate myself from one thread, there is another thread that grabs my attention. It is like jumping from one strand in the spider's web only to get caught in another.

When I think the mantra, it is as if a clear pool is disturbed for a second and then becomes clear again, but on the other side of the pool and surrounding everything everywhere, there are these strings of colorful light like mutliple spider webs that, even if I focus on one strand just for an instant, turns into a person, place, scene or other form. This has been going on for weeks. I've been trying to ignore the visions hoping to break through to inner silence but it's starting to bother me.

I don't know what to do about it. It doesn't feel like deep silence although for a while it was quiet. There was no little voice in my head that usually speaks to me. As a matter of fact, during today's meditation, I started hearing voices in a foreign language accompanying the visions. I am troubled about this. I don't think I am meditating and I am at a loss as to what is happening. Are these threads of light that contain visions/pictures/scenes thoughts or memories or astral scenes? Perhaps a combination of all three? What should I do about it?

I can't seem to focus anywhere or shut off my inner sight so that I don't see the threads. Eyes up, eyes straight ahead or down. No difference.

Is this a phase that you go through after meditating regularily for 3 years? How do I get through it? Are you supposed to get through it? Does it ever go away? Have you ever experienced this (to anyone who may read this)?

It gets worse...

After a month or so of no pranayama, I decided to add back breath of fire and spinal breathing to my routine. I noticed that the ecstatic conductivity has lessened to some degree and I guess I bought the story that you are supposed to mix energetics with deep silence.

After about a week of going from root to brow, I decided to try going from root to the star above the head for a few sessions to see what would happen. Last week I did a form of spinal breathing where I visualized liquid light coming up from the root and liquid light coming down from the star as I traced the sushumna. It was a good effort and I believe I succeeded at getting the light to flow both ways as I could see the columns of light moving internally. That was during the morning meditation.

During the afternoon meditation this is what happened:
I closed my eyes and immediately found myself in a greenish space where the sense of "I" seemed very powerful and in control. Then I found myself in the luminous tube of the sushumna surrounded by space again. It seemed to be a layer of consciousness and I found that I could move in and out of it. So, I moved back to the body and did my routine. When I hit the deep meditation part, my body dissolved and I became a mixture of hot orange red flames and cool blue flames. My heart became a large white sun. The hot and cold flames ran up and down the spine and I felt like a field of flaming hot and cold vapours. I think my body was shaking and it was definately breaking out in a hot and cold sweat. In this state a managed to ignore the symptoms and did mantra repetition for about 15 minutes until I decided to shut it all down. Afterwards I felt like I had released a major blockage of some sort and felt quite relieved.

Later that afternoon I got into the elevator and something popped in my head. I thought I was having a stroke. The top half of my right eye could not see anymore, or rather, it looked like someone had pulled a shade over it. I thought perhaps that my retina had detached but then I also noticed that a part of me was splitting out of the body. The effect lasted for about five minutes and then I was back to normal.

The next day, twice during the day at the office, something popped in my head and then it was like the etheric body was splitting out from the body. I was watching an etheric body or silver white figure of light splitting off from the body and moving to the left. I was confused as to which one I was. Was I the body or the silver figure? Which one should I inhabit? Then I realized that "I" was watching the two splitting apart. It was like a dream and it reminded me of the time I split into four "beings" during my shaktipat initiation.

This morning when I got to work (after spending a lot of time alone in the bush hiking for the weekend to try to clear myself and ground) I sat at my desk and there manifested a moving clear white light in the lower left corners of my visual range. When closing my eyes, it looked like bright white light was breaking through my visual arena. But the light was moving like water or a mirage. This effect went away after about 5 minutes.

Now when I meditate, I see (with closed eyes) a vaporous film that throbs in correspondence with my pulse. I also see another rounded vaporous film that looks like I'm encased in a translucent bubble and this one expands and contracts along with my breathing. My inner body looks like a fine mist of smoke that is always moving, sometimes to the left, sometimes up and down. Actually, now I'm wondering how to stop all these things from moving about as I don't think the movement is deep silence. How does one go about stopping all of this phenomenon? I'm thinking that there is a buddhist technique of dissolving the winds into the central channel that I'll have to study about again.

I'm also wondering if these latest experiences are a result of some instability brought about by bringing the light up and down from root to the star above the head during spinal breathing. Or perhaps these are the baby steps in learning how to disassemble the assemblage point ala Casteneda? Or maybe I'm just going crazy.

For some reason I felt I had to write about it.
Perhaps someone can tell me what stage of development I'm at or what exactly is happening to me. Ask your inner silence about these experiences. Does it come up with any answers?

Thanks.
:)
TI






Reply author: yogani
Replied on: Apr 20 2010 4:25:15 PM
Message:

Hi TI:

Your experiences are not so unusual. What seems unusual is the tendency to analyze during practice, which can become an obstruction if favored. Therefore, when analysis comes, just ease back to the mantra. That's all that is necessary. It is not a focusing. It is a gentle favoring when we notice we are off into something else. It does not matter what that something else is.

I am sure a "Buddhist map" can tell you exactly where you are with experiences in the overall scheme of things, usually at the expense of continuing progress. Figuring out where we are has absolutely nothing to do with our spiritual progress, and, in fact, can arrest our progress in "analysis paralysis."

Both Buddhists and yogis in the know will tell you the same thing: Keep practicing with consistency, favoring the procedure of your practice over the scenery along the way. This is not a guarantee of consistent experiences of any kind during practice. It will, however, guarantee your progress.

Anything can happen in practice, with thoughts, visions, lights, sounds, and all the rest. The mantra can be big, small, loud, soft, flat, shimmering, clear, fuzzy, irritating, ecstatic, anything. And, yes, it can go on for days, weeks, or months in a particular mode, until purification and opening lead us into more realms of inner stuff that are purifying and opening. None of it matters in relation to the procedure of meditation.

What matters is how we are feeling during the day. Are we more relaxed, energetic, creative, loving, finding more synergies occurring naturally in our life's journey? These are the things that indicate that our practice is working. This is where practices pay off, not in what happens while we are sitting in meditation.

The only reason to discuss experiences that occur in meditation is to coax practitioners back to application of the procedure, and to boost confidence to proceed with consistency. Other than that, there isn't any reason to discuss the scenery. It is yours, and you can enjoy it if you like. Whatever is there is there until it isn't anymore, and there is no point in fretting about anything being there or not being there.

It is your practice. It is suggested to continue with it and see what is happening outside practice in ordinary living. If you keep doing the practice according to procedure, forget about the internals of it, and go out and live fully, the results will be there.

It is your path and your choice. Carry on!

The guru is in you.

PS: Yes, crown practices, taken to excess, can lead to instabilities. That's old news around here.


Reply author: emc
Replied on: Apr 21 2010 08:24:33 AM
Message:

And deep mediation 35 min x 3 times/day also sounds a bit exaggerated... I think I would fly off into beams of light with that amount as well! Max 20 min x 2 times a day is the normal amount. And many of us are on even less magnitude...


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Apr 21 2010 9:28:23 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by yogani

Hi TI:

Your experiences are not so unusual. What seems unusual is the tendency to analyze during practice, which can become an obstruction if favored. Therefore, when analysis comes, just ease back to the mantra. That's all that is necessary. It is not a focusing. It is a gentle favoring when we notice we are off into something else. It does not matter what that something else is.

I am sure a "Buddhist map" can tell you exactly where you are with experiences in the overall scheme of things, usually at the expense of continuing progress. Figuring out where we are has absolutely nothing to do with our spiritual progress, and, in fact, can arrest our progress in "analysis paralysis."

Both Buddhists and yogis in the know will tell you the same thing: Keep practicing with consistency, favoring the procedure of your practice over the scenery along the way. This is not a guarantee of consistent experiences of any kind during practice. It will, however, guarantee your progress.

Anything can happen in practice, with thoughts, visions, lights, sounds, and all the rest. The mantra can be big, small, loud, soft, flat, shimmering, clear, fuzzy, irritating, ecstatic, anything. And, yes, it can go on for days, weeks, or months in a particular mode, until purification and opening lead us into more realms of inner stuff that are purifying and opening. None of it matters in relation to the procedure of meditation.

What matters is how we are feeling during the day. Are we more relaxed, energetic, creative, loving, finding more synergies occurring naturally in our life's journey? These are the things that indicate that our practice is working. This is where practices pay off, not in what happens while we are sitting in meditation.

The only reason to discuss experiences that occur in meditation is to coax practitioners back to application of the procedure, and to boost confidence to proceed with consistency. Other than that, there isn't any reason to discuss the scenery. It is yours, and you can enjoy it if you like. Whatever is there is there until it isn't anymore, and there is no point in fretting about anything being there or not being there.

It is your practice. It is suggested to continue with it and see what is happening outside practice in ordinary living. If you keep doing the practice according to procedure, forget about the internals of it, and go out and live fully, the results will be there.

It is your path and your choice. Carry on!

The guru is in you.

PS: Yes, crown practices, taken to excess, can lead to instabilities. That's old news around here.




Hi Yogani :)
Thank you very much for your response. I think you have given me good advice and it is comforting to know that my experiences aren't unusual.

I do not try to analyze what is occuring during meditation, I try to hold to the same procedure and focus on the mantra. It's just that sometimes towards the end of the meditation I start thinking to myself that "this isn't meditation", "why am I seeing so many sticky visions and phenomenon" and I wonder if I should turn up the effort and concentration because if I relax too much then I get pulled into the phenomenon and it feels like I get caught in the dream or essence of the phenomenon. It is after the meditation that I do the analysis.

Like, after today's afternoon meditation, just before the end, I started pulling out and it is then that I realized that even though I was ignoring many visions and still capable of thinking, I was returning from a very deep place. And that place is kind of addicting.

Basically, I referred to the Buddhist inquiry because my guess is that the silver-white mists that I see are perhaps called winds and I have heard of dissolving the winds in the central channel. Perhaps I am moving too much during meditation or I need a new level of stability. Or perhaps I'm letting the visions bother me and the emotions are stirring things up. I don't know. Perhaps letting it be is the best advice and maybe to not try so hard.

No matter, I will persist with the routine. I have been stable for the last two days, that is, I haven't separated from my body during the day during non-meditation times nor have I seen any alarming visual eye phenomenon. It is nice to realize more meaning in the phrase "crown practices may lead to instabilities".

Thanks again for your response and persistence.

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Apr 21 2010 9:45:26 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by emc

And deep mediation 35 min x 3 times/day also sounds a bit exaggerated... I think I would fly off into beams of light with that amount as well! Max 20 min x 2 times a day is the normal amount. And many of us are on even less magnitude...


Hi emc :)
I agree with you that 3 x a day sounds excessive and would be for many people on this forum. I'm not that sensitive nor is my kundalini as active as many others' on this forum, judging from their posts. But on the bright side, I pray for you 3 x a day! :)

The thing that I have found is that as the day wears on, my mind becomes easier to tame and that after the third meditation I often end up in a state that is serene, blissful and pure enjoyment. I really like spending the rest of the night after the evening meditation just sitting in my lazy boy and bathing in the effect. :)

Thought I'd mention, I'm glad you haven't left the forum. I have really appreciated all your posts. You have given me insight into the feminine essence like nobody else has and I hope you will continue to share your life in the years to come.


:)
TI


Reply author: Smileyogi
Replied on: Apr 28 2010 02:52:03 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

Hi :)

After the meditation, after contemplating what I had just witnessed, I started to realize that I was overloaded big time. The whole top of my head was gone. Like someone had taken a giant spoon and scooped out the top of my head and brain... a spacious vacuum like a funnel shaped hole, about five inches at the top narrowing down to the center of the head.

When I tried to focus on the top of my skull, all I could feel was this big hole opening up into space. I also felt numb and stupefied. Like someone had clubbed me and left me dazed.

This feeling, the numbness, the space, no more top half of the head persisted for over seven days!!! It's a wonder I even got through the work week! Only today, nine days later, do I feel like I have a top half of the head and that I'm coming out of zombie land. Is this what is meant by premature crown opening?



No..is not TI..imagine how I feel with no head and no body also 24/7??..you should have trusted the process.The true sahasrara opening feels like that..thank god you haven't disappeared in a light,like me...that would have scared you much more then the half top of head..just move the energy down with attention,and make the body empty...but most of all..you must let go and trust the process.
Much love to you..
Kisses:)
love,danny
http://kriptodanny.blogspot.com/201...hin-you.html
Lead me from dreaming to waking.
Lead me from opacity to clarity.
Lead me from the complicated to the simple.
Lead me from the obscure to the obvious.
Lead me from intention to attention.
Lead me from what I'm told I am to what I see I am.
Lead me from confrontation to wide openness.
Lead me to the place I never left,
Where there is peace, and peace
- The Upanishads


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Apr 28 2010 11:43:47 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Smileyogi
No..is not TI..imagine how I feel with no head and no body also 24/7??..you should have trusted the process.The true sahasrara opening feels like that..thank god you haven't disappeared in a light,like me...that would have scared you much more then the half top of head..just move the energy down with attention,and make the body empty...but most of all..you must let go and trust the process.
Much love to you..
Kisses:)
love,danny
...


Hi Danny :)
It is interesting that you say that that was a true sahasrara opening. It was a very intense experience and it did take a long time to get over it and realize that I wasn't just playing with tiddly winks.

However, I'm kind of confused by your statement that I should have trusted the process. The practice that I had been doing at the time of that experience was a form of Kriya Yoga spinal breathing in which you bring the light down from star/sun above the head and then after that practice, a meditation which consists of moving your point of view to the brahman cave and focusing your sight towards the third eye. Then, you ask that the Divine Mother and Father reveal themselves to you and wait and look. The funnel that opened at the top of the head after was a direct result of that session.

What do you mean by trust the process? Are you saying that I should have stuck to that specific practice (which is a Norman Paulsen practice, disciple of Yogananda Paramhansa Yogi, revealed in his Sacred Science book)?

I hadn't realized that you can bring the space or hole that opened up at the top of the head down into the body. I didn't think you could really do anything with it except just kind of observe it. I am under the impression that we can direct energy through intent, but not space..

And, you are right. Although I have experienced becoming a hollow tube of fine filaments of light hanging in a vast empty space (which I believe is the expansion of the sushumna) and I've experienced some occasions when this phenomenon has since manifested sporadically, I've never gone into the light. (Or maybe I have but I always only pick up the 'returning from the light' as a memory, never what happens when and if I was actually in the light). Have you written about your experience of disappearing in the light anywhere?

Actually, I have another question if you don't mind. In other posts you have said that you are a mahayogi and have insinuated that you can see future events and perhaps possess some minor siddis. What is your lineage? Who is your guru? What were or are your practices?


:)
TI


Reply author: Smileyogi
Replied on: Apr 29 2010 04:04:50 AM
Message:

quote:
from Tibetan Ice
Hi Danny :)
It is interesting that you say that that was a true sahasrara opening. It was a very intense experience and it did take a long time to get over it and realize that I wasn't just playing with tiddly winks.



The true sahasrara opening feels like your head explodes..and nothing remains,but a big vortex of sucking suction..really..with a big flowing wind/space/cool sensations.I had that many years ago.
Is like a huge vacuum sucking your brains out...nothing of your head will remain.Thoughts stop,and you are in awe,and say..what happened,,..but you can't even speak,or think.Your biggest mistake you made,TI...is that you haven't trusted the shakti in you,and you were AFRAID..you should have stayed with it(with attention on vaccum)
Prayer helps at that moment ,like ,,please purify me,,.forget the ,,I am,, this is beyond it.
There is a point where you must trust the process,but the ego whom got you so far got in the way,and you called the process ,,bad,,see what I mean?..you've called the process ,,premature,,..when it was the real deal.There is a point where you must forgive(let go,as Jesus said) everything,even the technique...because something else would purify you...the shakti within you.But you must trust the process,and not imagine is some,,premature sahasrara awakening,,.I said trust the experience you were into.I've been there.
And I posted in http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....age=16#66210about my rainbow body.I also dedublated my body(not astral,but in flesh) at one time when I wanted to visit my father,the problem was he was so scared and called the tv station,and they made a ,,paranormal,, tape about it.Actually all the powers are based on the mind level.Concentration is the key.Everybody has them...some are aware,some not,since most people do it not conscious about.The idea is not to confuse the cause with the effect,since you are not your body,your emotions,or your consciousness..believe it or not...in the same time,from this pure clear awareness the whole creation emerges in order to know itself.You are god knowing itself thru experiences..that's all.Knowledge of that grants you immortality.Don't make things too complicated.
Find the bliss..became the bliss.


quote:

Actually, I have another question if you don't mind. In other posts you have said that you are a mahayogi and have insinuated that you can see future events and perhaps possess some minor siddis. What is your lineage? Who is your guru? What were or are your practices?
:)
TI


The mahayogi quote I use when I want to make a point that I have lots of experience..so maybe they listen to me...it is a joke,yet it is not..depending on whom is reading...Again,siddhis are a factor of consciousness,or manifestations of something we are already,but we don't recognize it,due to the process of individualization,or the great mystery of creation itself.
Do not confuse the source with the effects.
If you visit my blog,you know what my practices are(if any).You could say I am a sahaja yogi,(but a buddhist and others in the same time)but not part of the organization,and actually I am disappointed that a simple shakti energy transfer was interpreted as a cult for Shri Mataji...sad story indeed.Story of all the cults.But the transfer is real,and that what it counts in the end,isn't it?
In any case,I post a link to one yogini I cared about,and she died exactly when I predicted,and I could do nothing about it.
Seeing the future is not always fun........because you see the pain of others..stick with the present.
Much love to you,TI..live long and prosper:)
Danny

....(quotes from my blog)
My Beloved
My peace, O my brothers and sisters, is my solitude,
And my Beloved is with me always,
For His love I can find no substitute,
And His love is the test for me among mortal beings,
Whenever His Beauty I may contemplate,
He is my "mihrab", towards Him is my "qiblah"
If I die of love, before completing satisfaction,
Alas, for my anxiety in the world, alas for my distress,
O Healer (of souls) the heart feeds upon its desire,
The striving after union with Thee has healed my soul,
O my Joy and my Life abidingly,
You were the source of my life and from Thee also came my ecstasy.
I have separated myself from all created beings,
My hope is for union with Thee, for that is the goal of my desire...
Rabia al Basri 717-801..

http://kriptodanny.blogspot.com/200...r-named.html
Beautiful explaining from Sharmila(very candid..and true..this photo she sent to me couple weeks before her death,since I knew she was done,and I needed a photo,but couldn't tell her)

Hi !
to whom it may concern... I would like to share with you the most wonderful thing that happened into my life... " self realization"... self realization ... what's this.. ? This ? a so simple thing..
I am sure that you certainly have been told about " chakras " ? No...
Oh come on really no ?
Well the chakras are wheels of energy that circulate inside of us .. As you know... that you know.. we have different " bodies ", the etheric one, the physical one, etcc... 7 all together ... But the most interesting one is the " subtile body".
A subtil body ???? What's that.. ok I'll explain.
In science we know that we have the left sympathetic channel which governs the right balloon of the "ego" the right brain .. Ok ? this channel is our feminine aspect or the lunar channel and also the channel of desires, the blue channel..
Then the right channel, the masculin aspect in us, the solar channel which ends at our left side brain and becomes " the super ego "This channel of a yellow color is the one of our projections, our actions.
In psychology we call those channels the " Moi" and the "sur Moi ", and how about the wonderful central channel, ( called by the hindus , the sushumna nadi ) the parasympathetic central channel which governs all our autonomous system , like breathing, blood circulation, and heart-beats ...
This channel is not an utopia it really exist and can be seen with laser radiography, I saw my own, and all the chakras attached to it .
Humanity travels unconsciously from a channel to another one, without " resting" a while in the center..
Let me tell you when we desire something we do an action corresponding to that thing to be realized or achieved or done..
We desire with the left and we act with the right. For exemple, I desired to share my experience with you, ( left channel ), now I am in the right channel writing these lines.
I'm sure you understand all this.
Supposing I wish to share something important.. Instead of just jumping on my computer to write... I stop a while, close my eyes.. ask the help of my central channel to be able to find the judicious words to touch people..It's what I did before writing.
It means that I rested a while ( 10 mn ) by resting in the sushumna nadhi, I got connected to The Primordial Energy which resides in our bone " the sacrum ", in the pelvic area., the energy flows, my chakras who are on Her way, get enlightened .
The result of that is that now I' am really " inspired " to find the right words to express my self. You will ask why touching people? because despite of my numberless defects , I like people.. that's why my job before I retired was " airlines stewardess", I have flown thirty years at Sabena airlines ( now SN ) caring for people, serving them,sharing smiles and the joy that I always had in my heart..
Now I'm retired of course, and I still have this urge to help others.. sorry It's my profound nature.
A french saying quote " when I know the people, I love more the animals..
I say " I love people and.... I also love the animals.".
So as I love all of you , whatever you are, jew, or black, or white, or red, or yellow,or muslims, or hindus, or catholic, or protestant, or budhist or young, or old, or fat, or skinny , or tall or short.. Please, Please come and sit down....
First read this carefully and try to experience the same thing I did 20 years ago, the experience of " self realization ". Ok
Sit down feet on the ground , well apart and no shoes ( stockings ok ), no glasses if you are wearing some., both hands, palms up, on your knees and close your eyes...
Put your right hand on your heart and ask yourself this question 3 times : " am I the spirit " ?
Then put your right hand on the upper left side of your stomack and ask 3 times :" am I my own
guide " ?
Then hand on the lower left side of your abdomen and ask 3 times : " can I have the pure knowledge" ?
Then without thinking keep your right hand there and make those affirmations ( as your energy will start to move ) ...Yes I have the pure knowledge !
Hand up on the upper left side of your stomach : YES I am my own guide.
Hand on your heart : " Yes I am the spirit, I am a part and parcel of the whole "
Then always your right on the left side of your neck head turned to the right and , say with full confidence without thinking: " I am not guilty.."
Then your right hand on your forehead ,head band downwards and say : I forgive, and I am forgiven!
Then , always your right hand behind your neck ( lower part of your head ) head reversed a little at the rear and say, : " oh ! Primordial Energy, if I have done something wrong while searching for the truth, please forgive me .."
Then put your right hand on your fontanella bone area(top of the head) ,fingers up ,and turn it 7 times clockwise and ask your energy : please Mother Energy, Mother Kundalini connect me with you.. connect me with the Universe.. remain silent 2 or 3 minutes, then open your eyes, and with both hands above your head ( more or less 5 ou 7 cm ) try to feel what is happening to you OK.?

Ne m'éconduis pas... mais..
conduis -moi!

Mčnes-moi, du ręve ŕ la réalité,
Mčnes-moi ,de l'opacité ŕ la clarté,
Sors-moi du compliqué,
ŕ la simplicité,
Conduis-moi de l'obscur ŕ l'évident,
Conduis-moi de l'intention ŕ " l'attention ,"
Délivre-moi de ce qu'on m'a dit "qui j'étais"
Et fais moi voir qui "vraiment " je suis

Conduis-moi ŕ l'endroit que je n'ai
jamais,ô jamais quitté...

Et, viens, viens..reste; avec moi,
Au Royaume de la "Paix "

Lead me from dreaming to waking.
Lead me from opacity to clarity.
Lead me from the complicated to the simple.
Lead me from the obscure to the obvious.
Lead me from intention to attention.
Lead me from what I'm told I am to what I see I am.
Lead me from confrontation to wide openness.
Lead me to the place I never left,
Where there is peace, and peace
- The Upanishads



Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Apr 30 2010 02:41:42 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Ask your inner silence about these experiences. Does it come up with any answers?


When you become witness of the highest state (abiding silence), you come to a point where there is no one left who should trust a process.

You can call it the highest state of witness... the unborn state.

You become unborn... a bridge.

On this side of the bridge you can see You and your world. And on the other side there is the unknown.

For example, you are an individual human being in gross form. But upon close examination you know that you contain millions of cells inside your body. Your body is a big house in itself.

Similarly you call this planet gross form Earth, it contains billions of beings and forms within.

Then you call this existence Universe, it contains billions of Planets and Galaxies within including you.

You are just a little tiny-winy sand particle in this huge existence.

And you practice yoga? Are you joking?


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Apr 30 2010 10:51:58 AM
Message:

Hi TI,

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

Hi :)

After the meditation, after contemplating what I had just witnessed, I started to realize that I was overloaded big time. The whole top of my head was gone. Like someone had taken a giant spoon and scooped out the top of my head and brain... a spacious vacuum like a funnel shaped hole, about five inches at the top narrowing down to the center of the head.

When I tried to focus on the top of my skull, all I could feel was this big hole opening up into space. I also felt numb and stupefied. Like someone had clubbed me and left me dazed.

This feeling, the numbness, the space, no more top half of the head persisted for over seven days!!! It's a wonder I even got through the work week! Only today, nine days later, do I feel like I have a top half of the head and that I'm coming out of zombie land. Is this what is meant by premature crown opening?


That is what is meant by a crown opening. It may or may not be premature. If it is, you will find out fast enough, as the effects of a premature crown opening are usually not delayed very long. A premature crown opening, as opposed to a timely crown opening, will cause too much energy to begin moving upwards and outwards through the body. This could manifest in many different ways and some of them could be uncomfortable. Typical symptoms in the body of a premature crown opening would be heat, shaking, headaches etc. The manifestation at the crown of a premature crown opening would be experienced as ungroundedness, feeling spaced out and being unable to concentrate. "Expanding into infinity" in a way that does not feel comfortable is a phrase that springs to mind. When the crown opens in a timely manner, the expansion is experienced as one of dissolving into pure bliss consciousness, not all at once necessarily, but gradually and increasingly over the days, weeks and years that follow. The experience in the body resulting from a timely crown opening is the gradual rise of ecstasy to a fully ecstatic body, radiating love in all directions.

If you think your opening may be premature, then you will need to self-pace your practices accordingly, and possibly drop some practices such as the top down kriya practice and introduce some new practices, which are better designed to regulate the opening of the energetic body safely. If you believe your opening to be timely, then you are on the right road, and can proceed towards the life divine with joy in your heart.

All the best,

Christi


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: May 01 2010 12:18:00 AM
Message:

Hi Smileyogi :)
Thank you very much for taking the time to further explain and answer my questions.
I am slowly digesting what you've said. Now I am intrigued to do a meditation and just rest in the sushumna.
Sorry to hear about the experience you had with Sharmila as I feel that it was painful for you.


All the best.
:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: May 01 2010 12:25:00 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by manigma
When you become witness of the highest state (abiding silence), you come to a point where there is no one left who should trust a process.

You can call it the highest state of witness... the unborn state.

You become unborn... a bridge.

On this side of the bridge you can see You and your world. And on the other side there is the unknown.

For example, you are an individual human being in gross form. But upon close examination you know that you contain millions of cells inside your body. Your body is a big house in itself.

Similarly you call this planet gross form Earth, it contains billions of beings and forms within.

Then you call this existence Universe, it contains billions of Planets and Galaxies within including you.

You are just a little tiny-winy sand particle in this huge existence.

And you practice yoga? Are you joking?



Hi Manigma :)
Thank you for your response and thank you for reminding that the battle to overcome ego is a never ending one.

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: May 01 2010 12:44:17 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi

That is what is meant by a crown opening. It may or may not be premature. If it is, you will find out fast enough, as the effects of a premature crown opening are usually not delayed very long. A premature crown opening, as opposed to a timely crown opening, will cause too much energy to begin moving upwards and outwards through the body. This could manifest in many different ways and some of them could be uncomfortable. Typical symptoms in the body of a premature crown opening would be heat, shaking, headaches etc. The manifestation at the crown of a premature crown opening would be experienced as ungroundedness, feeling spaced out and being unable to concentrate. "Expanding into infinity" in a way that does not feel comfortable is a phrase that springs to mind. When the crown opens in a timely manner, the expansion is experienced as one of dissolving into pure bliss consciousness, not all at once necessarily, but gradually and increasingly over the days, weeks and years that follow. The experience in the body resulting from a timely crown opening is the gradual rise of ecstasy to a fully ecstatic body, radiating love in all directions.

If you think your opening may be premature, then you will need to self-pace your practices accordingly, and possibly drop some practices such as the top down kriya practice and introduce some new practices, which are better designed to regulate the opening of the energetic body safely. If you believe your opening to be timely, then you are on the right road, and can proceed towards the life divine with joy in your heart.

All the best,

Christi



Hi Christi :)
Yes, that is exactly what I did: I dropped the top-down Kriya spinal breathing and that type of meditation and went into a kind of recovery mode, sitting quietly just sensing the inner body. I guess I had a fear that my brain might shut off and I wouldn't be able to work and earn a living.

It also made me realize that stunning effect that occurs when you meet very high divine beings. I believe the cause of that whole experience was the result of seeing the cherubs, the divine female face and the divine male face. As to who exactly they were, I don't know for sure. But I think if one were to bathe in their presence for a long time, it would disintegrate your coarser components. As Smileyogi has emphasized, I have to learn to let go of the fear and trust Shakti. Something to work on.. :) I also believe I'm ready to venture back into the realm of the sushumna/crown light, now that the initial impact and realization of the type of experiences that might occur has worn off..

Once again Christi, it is always a pleasure to hear from you and read your posts.

I hope you have a speedy enlightenment. :)

TI


Reply author: Smileyogi
Replied on: May 01 2010 02:47:57 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi

That is what is meant by a crown opening. It may or may not be premature. If it is, you will find out fast enough, as the effects of a premature crown opening are usually not delayed very long. A premature crown opening, as opposed to a timely crown opening, will cause too much energy to begin moving upwards and outwards through the body. This could manifest in many different ways and some of them could be uncomfortable. Typical symptoms in the body of a premature crown opening would be heat, shaking, headaches etc. The manifestation at the crown of a premature crown opening would be experienced as ungroundedness, feeling spaced out and being unable to concentrate. "Expanding into infinity" in a way that does not feel comfortable is a phrase that springs to mind.

See why I love you,Christi?..lovely,accurate,clear light explaining..
Kisses from the mahayogi:)
Danny


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: May 01 2010 5:38:25 PM
Message:

Hi TI,

I assume you have already read lesson 199 and lesson 287. If you haven't now would be a good time. Lesson 287 was written as a response to some questions that I put to Yogani a few years ago.

quote:
I hope you have a speedy enlightenment. :)


You too.


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: May 02 2010 12:17:23 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Hi TI,

I assume you have already read lesson 199 and lesson 287. If you haven't now would be a good time. Lesson 287 was written as a response to some questions that I put to Yogani a few years ago.

quote:
I hope you have a speedy enlightenment. :)


You too.


Hi Christi, :)
Thanks! :)
You know, I had a really hard time re-reading those two lessons. My perineum started kicking in with waves and pulses and now I'm almost crawling the walls.. Sometimes Yogani's writings do that to me. But it was good to re-read them again. I wonder what Smileyogi would think of those lessons.

Those two lessons are quite interesting and very well written. I was actually surprised that Yogani suggests crown to root targeted bastrika, once a person is advanced enough and properly purified.

The only part that kind of surprised me is this, from lesson 287:
quote:

Once we get to that stage, then what? Well, nothing much really. We just keep going with our stable practice routine (using prudent self-pacing), and our regular life. Contrary to popular belief, there is no place other than HERE that we have to go to -- no exit via the crown to some other exotic dimension. Actually, the opposite happens -- the ecstatic bliss (the exotic) comes in here from out there. That is the thing, you know -- the divine process is not us going somewhere else. It is the divine coming in through us into this life -- this ordinary life. It ends up melting our heart in an extraordinary way and flowing out through our actions. In AYP we call it outpouring divine love. That's it...


The reason for the suprise is that I once did a 3 1/2 hour meditation on the star above the head and ended up popping out of my body into a vast space, felt like I was dying and then after, I started seeing two fairies (I named them Ishta and Phaedra). I've also had other strange and interesting exits to exotic dimensions through the open crown. This seems to be at odds with Yogani's quote above so I find that a little confusing.

Perhaps "exiting to exotic lands" is literally getting caught in one of the dimensions in the sarahrara's petals and when the crown is fully purified those dimensions vanish? I've also read that each petal of the crown imbues it's own siddhi, so perhaps playing in the petals is an intermediate step only and one shouldn't stop there if one wishes to complete the whole journey...?

It is also an interesting twist for me to read that the divine enters our life through the crown. That is a new perspective. I mean, I've always heard that you bring down the divine light from above but I guess Yogani has taken it to it's logical conclusion, that the divine should manifest into one's life through the crown.. Hmmm. I contemplate what wonders we have yet to learn..

Thanks for your correspondence.

:)
TI


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: May 02 2010 06:24:15 AM
Message:

Hi TI,

quote:
You know, I had a really hard time re-reading those two lessons. My perineum started kicking in with waves and pulses and now I'm almost crawling the walls.. Sometimes Yogani's writings do that to me. But it was good to re-read them again. I wonder what Smileyogi would think of those lessons.


Yes, when the energy is running strong, you even have to be carefull what you read, and when.

quote:
Those two lessons are quite interesting and very well written. I was actually surprised that Yogani suggests crown to root targeted bastrika, once a person is advanced enough and properly purified.


The crown has to be fairly stable before you can begin this practice. It is best to start off in small doses if you do start it.

quote:
The only part that kind of surprised me is this, from lesson 287:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Once we get to that stage, then what? Well, nothing much really. We just keep going with our stable practice routine (using prudent self-pacing), and our regular life. Contrary to popular belief, there is no place other than HERE that we have to go to -- no exit via the crown to some other exotic dimension. Actually, the opposite happens -- the ecstatic bliss (the exotic) comes in here from out there. That is the thing, you know -- the divine process is not us going somewhere else. It is the divine coming in through us into this life -- this ordinary life. It ends up melting our heart in an extraordinary way and flowing out through our actions. In AYP we call it outpouring divine love. That's it...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The reason for the suprise is that I once did a 3 1/2 hour meditation on the star above the head and ended up popping out of my body into a vast space, felt like I was dying and then after, I started seeing two fairies (I named them Ishta and Phaedra). I've also had other strange and interesting exits to exotic dimensions through the open crown. This seems to be at odds with Yogani's quote above so I find that a little confusing.



Ishta is the name of one of my daughters.

I asked Yogani about this once (the leaving the body and travelling the inner planes) and here is what he replied:

"Hi Christi:

The nice thing about it is that we don't have to zoom anywhere. We are already there.

Where do we go when we do group samyama healing? Does it matter where in the world the person is? Nope. We just dial up the name, and we are immediately there, collectively in that case.

So, when we are dialing up "galaxy," "cosmos" and "unbounded awareness" in cosmic samyama, there is no place to go. We are there already. Samyama is about awakening what already is, and it is all here where we are right now. Stillness in action. " [Yogani]


http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....page=2#41017

Christi


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Oct 05 2010 12:16:23 AM
Message:

Hi,
I know I don't post much anymore as I seem to have lost my desire to fortify the mind with more clutter, but in this case I'll make an exception.

Yesterday I attended a one-day Kunlun Level 1 seminar facilitated by Douglas Purcell at the Self-Connection bookstore in Calgary Alberta!

There were six students present, three men and three women.

Overall the atmosphere was very calm and laid back.

Douglas presented a general introduction of Kunlun, mentioned some references to Max.

He said that we would be child-like during the seminar.

I asked several questions like:
- "Did you train under Max " He said he did.
- "Did the movie that Chris was making ever come out?" He said he didn't know for sure.
- "Have you seen anyone fall or walk through a wall" He said he hadn't. But he mentioned that Kan could transport himself and that the main problem was that when he did so, he could not bring clothes along with him. A short discussion ensued and someone mentioned that he could always arrange to have clothes at the location to where he transported himself.

Douglas then showed us the One Breath meditation and made us practice it a bit.

Douglas then showed us the Red Phoenix and made us practice that. (I have always wanted to know the Red Phoenix practice because you are not supposed to write it down and the only way to learn it is to have a teacher show you. I will respect this directive...) The Red Phoenix is a crown practice and would definitely be frowned upon in the AYP group due to it's likeliness of producing 'premature crown openings'. After I performed twelve cycles, I noticed quite a bit of heat in my head. When I mentioned that, Douglas said that this energy should be cool and cooling as it is the downward water flow.

He then showed us Kunlun Level one, but he did not mention the "Breathing in of white mist while floating in the sky" nor did he mention anything about raising the heels off of the floor. After a minute or so of practice I mentioned the raising of the heels to him and then he explained that part too. Later, when I mentioned the "Breathing in of white mist while floating in the sky" he didn't give that part very much importance and passed it off as a 'breathing routine'. Apart from that, the practice was identical to as it was described in the book ("Pillars of Bliss" - also "Kunlun").

During the Kunlun practice, Douglas walked up to each student and put his thumb on their brow with the fingers on the top of the head. He was exacting a transmission. When he did this to me, shortly after I saw a vision of Max looking at me, pointing his finger at me. There was also someone else with him but I couldn't see the face. All I could see was a dark reddish-brown monk's robe. Then I was engulfed in a cloud of tingles or surge of energy of some sort that lasted for few seconds. I continued to practice. My legs bounced quite a but I was having a bit of trouble letting go. The general feeling was that my upper body should have been moving in circles but that wasn't happening much. At one point, after holding his hand over my head and moving it in a circular path, Douglas said that I was balancing my yin and yang by the bouncing of my legs. I did not look at any of the other students so I don't know what was happening there, although I did hear many yawns from the lady sitting next to me and one of the men burst out laughing and this lasted quite a while. (He later apologized..)

After closing, Douglas showed us the standing postures (Wood, Fire, Earth, Metal and Water) which we practiced for about 2 minutes for each posture.

Then he briefly mentioned Spirit Traveling followed by the Golden Flower Mudra to connect the three tan tiens. There was a short discussion about opening the spiritual eye

After the lunch break, we repeated the practices in the same sequence that we were first learned them.

The second time I started the Kunlun practice I noticed a large spring like thing at the root chakra that rose up to my heart. It felt like a field of energy. It was about 2 inches wide. I noticed it and it kind of surprised me. It looked like a stretched out spring, similar to the springs you see on car suspensions, just a little narrower. I had no idea what it was, perhaps the kundalini? It made me wonder if maybe the circular motion of Kunlun, which is supposed to start at the waist area is caused by this spring. Perhaps I was missing the boat by having my legs bounce? Perhaps I have yet to activate Kunlun?

For my evening meditation that night (after driving back home) I just sat, heart mudra, tongue on soft palate in easy posture. There was a very nice blissful feeling that arose and I just sat there and enjoyed it for 30 minutes.

Today was a very stressful day at work. I spent most of the day contemplating whether or not I should find a new job. The whole organization that I work for is in the process of amalgamating 12 divisions into one large entity and chaos/disorganization reigns.. My morning meditation consisted of just sitting and trying to let go. That's all I could do to get away from the stress. My emotional reaction has made me consider whether this extra boost of energy from the seminar has amplified my emotional energies.

During my afternoon meditation, I decided to do just mantra repetition and use the heart-meridian mudra (thumbs on middle fingers) because I noticed that it produces a fine blissy feeling. When I closed my eyes I saw areas of space which I had not seen before, lower down. There were what appeared to be dragons with wings flying around. I kind of ignored them, because the scenery was dark and not very pleasant. I thought it might have been a lower plane or something. It looked like a hologram. I brought my attention upwards. I could see fine images of things, like they existed in whispy fine etheric space in 3D. I proceeded to do the mantra repetition ("I AM") and because I'm troubled by all these visions during meditation I also now visualize the "I AM" while I'm repeating it. Actually, the words "I AM" starting appearing in the space above my head a few weeks ago, so I just look and focus on that visually. It really helps to control the visions during meditation. Oh yeah, the space above my head is now clear with a tinge of dark blue in it. It has been like that for a couple weeks now. Periodically, when the space comes down lower, my chakras and sushumna just shine with an indescribable glow of sparkling colors. Like precious jewels sparkling in the depth of space. Enough to make me fall in love with them.

The overall progression of development that Douglas mentioned is that the Red Phoenix charges up and develops the crown, Kunlun develops the chi or energy in the lower tan tien, and eventually both of these flows or energies are brought up and down and meet at the heart area where they combine in the heart space to start the process of creating the golden body. He did not go into much detail about that as that is an advanced practice. Perhaps it is similar to the Buddhists' rainbow body? I don't know.

Overall I found the Kunlun seminar to be very laid back and loose, not too technical with little emphasis on details. For example, Douglas said that the Red Phoenix would produce results or phenomenon, but he would not explain what those types of experiences would be. Douglas is a very nice personable human being and did mention that he would be available through email or phone should we require any future assistance. And yes, it was mentioned several times that smiling opens the crown... :)

Oh yeah, last point. I had mentioned that I have been practicing AYP for the last three years and Douglas expressed a deep interest in Kriya Yoga and Yogananda Paramhansa Yogi's writings. I mentioned that I thought AYP spinal breathing was very powerful and relayed the experience that I had when my body dissolved and became a jelly-fish of light during spinal breathing. I also mentioned that it is important to incorporate some kind of self-inquiry in your practices, to turn your attention to "who is experiencing" the phenomenon because that is where the jewel in the lotus is hidden.

All in all the seminar was a pleasant experience, something I've wanted to do for many years now..

:)

TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Nov 14 2010 7:11:17 PM
Message:

Hi :)
Time for an update.
After the Kunlun seminar I spent a week or so practicing Kunlun and the Red Phoenix (along with my regular routine, just at different times). The things that struck me about the seminar, in retrospect were these: The kunlun attunement felt like a mild reiki attunement. The Red Phoenix is similar to spinal breathing, just in different areas. Gradually, due to a very busy schedule and an unwillingness to drop everything else just to practice Kunlun, I kind of put Kunlun on hold. I will keep the practices in my bag of tricks and bring it out when I feel I have to, for some reason.

I finished reading the Huna book and started telling my lower self to wake up at a certain time during weekend mornings (when I get to sleep in) and discovered that that works: The Secret Science Behind Miracles by Max Freedom Long.

I had to spend two weeks out of town during a training course and at that time I watched most of Nithyananda's videos on Youtube. They are most interesting especially considering that most all of his meditations start with the command to "Breath as slowly and as deeply as you can". I kind of like Nithyananda, it has to take alot of effort and will to smile like that all of the time.. (I realize that he is riddled with scandal at this time, but truth is where you find it, and you never know where you might find some good pointers. ) A few of his teachings that stuck with me are these: You can activate kundalini with willpower alone. Mulabhanda helps raise the Kundalini. That breath meditation is the most powerful and best meditation and the spaces between the breath are where to 'realize'.

About two weeks ago I went to a "Relationship Reiki Healer" and had my chakras cleared. He told me I had to work on my heart chakra, that my third eye was wide open and that I was on the verge of a kundalini explosion. He also told me that I had a warped sense of compassion and that I misinterpret sympathy for love. He put a cloud on my chest to stop me from having sympathy for people, so that I could sense what a normal relation between people should feel like. It lasted about three days.. He also told me that the star above my head was a symbol to me that I should have more fun. Since then I've lost interest in that star.

Around that time I also watched a Steven Norquist movie that someone else had posted on this forum: http://www.viddler.com/explore/Clea...314/1027.861

In that video he talks about becoming conscious in your dreams (you know, like Carlos Castenda/Don Juan suggested in some of his books) so I decided to try the Huna technique of commanding the lower self to become awake and aware in my dreams. That worked great! I've had many long clear dreams since I started doing that.

I also ordered the book by Steven Norquist called "Haunted Universe". When the book came in I read it once a night, every night. Friday night was the fifth time I was reading it.

I should also mention that I changed my mantra to "AUM SHREE SHREE I AM I AM NAMAHA" about 4 days ago. The day after I did that I noticed that I could see a very bright line of light up the sushumna to the center of the head and another one from the center of the head to the brow at a right-angle. The streak of light is about 1/16'th of a line thick. So, I started focusing on that during spinal breathing. Then, for some reason I decided to focus all of my attention directly above my head during mantra repetition, because there is a large open space there and it really helps quiet the mind because it takes more effort to combine this with mantra repetition. Yesterday, during the morning meditation, just by adding the "thrust of attention directly upwards through the top of the head", a very clear crisp series of visions appeared at my brow. The visions were of beautiful women watching me. In glowing detail, radiant, better than HD TV. I ignored them with great reluctance, but next time I am going to explore it more. Just for the fun of it. Nimittas?

Anyway, the reason I'm writing this post is because Friday night I had an interesting experience...

I was reading the part in the "Haunted Universe" where it says that there is no meaning in our acts. That hit a part in me which made me reflect on something my father once told me when I was a kid. He said, if you ever get to the point where you feel life's problems are building up uncontrollably, imagine that you are floating out in space, way above the earth. Look down at the earth.. see how insignificant it all appears?.

I then had a vision of thousands of people piled up upon each other, in one big meaningless heap. And no matter how important each person's accomplishments had been, it really meant nothing. Then, my kundalini blew open. It seemed very strange to me that the realization of the meaninglessness of accomplishments would start this type of reaction.

For the next hour, I experienced waves of ecstatic bliss coming up the spine, over the top of the head and back down around my body. My entire body was a field of ecstatic tingles. I sat there moaning and let it happen. The waves would start with an intense buildup in the perineum and then release up the spine. The intensity would last about 3 minutes, then it would die down and then start over. Just when I thought it was over it would start up again. Then I remembered what Guru Deva said in his "Merging with Shiva" book, that one should try to absorb as much of the energy as possible. So that is what I tried to do. Finally, after about an hour, it subsided. What an ordeal! However, I next started to burp! I couldn't quit burping. It was as if some large cloud of gas or air was being released through my stomach. This lasted for around 15 minutes. When it abated, I drank some water, chewed some tums and then went to bed. Had a hard time getting to sleep but eventually let go.

The next day I felt fine except it felt like my body had a mild case of the shakes, like there was some kind of second energy body inside my physical body which was pulsing and sending waves upwards.

Today, the day after the day after, I can feel the buildup in the root happening again. I wonder if I'm going to have another episode right away.

Other factors which I have changed which may have played a part in this kundalini eruption are these:
1) For the last 5 days I increased the bhastrika duration and intensity during my practices
2) For the last 5 days I also increased the physical pressure of the lower locks during spinal breathing
3) Haven't had any form of sex for 6 weeks

Somehow I can't believe that the knowledge or realization that all acts are meaningless could cause kundalini to blow. Pehaps that realization is a serious blow to the ego, causing it to step aside for a moment? Is it true that thoughts (such as the ego) are keeping the cap on the kundalini volcano and once released, well you know..

:)
TI





Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Nov 29 2010 12:03:13 AM
Message:

Hi, :)
I just wanted to say this: I reread a book called "Your Hands Can Heal You" at this link: http://www.yourhandscanhealyou.com/
In the book it discusses the idea that a breathing cycle of 6-3-6-3 is one method of supercharging the body with prana. (Inhale for a count of 6, hold for 3, exhale for 6 and hold for 3). The author says that the holding of the breath, both in and out is the part that charges the system with prana.
So, I decided to pause for a three-count at the top and bottom of the spinal breathing routine. I have been doing this for two days now. My basic understanding is that you gather the prana and then send that prana up and down the spine. When I first started, the pauses resulted in a lot of heat in the head. I could also get the heat to go down the spine fairly easily.
During my second sitting today, after about 5 minutes of this type of spinal breathing, my consciouness jolted, like I passed through to a dream world or astral plane. Right before, I had experienced fear, like I was going to suffocate (which is unusual for me since my spinal breathing is usually 9 counts in, hold for 1, 9 counts out.. etc). Anyway, right after that, the whole right side of the body was very hot and the left side of the body was very cold. I continued my routine, noting the peculiar state of opposite temperatures.
My analysis of this is that the extra prana put some extra power into the routine and it released some Kundalini up the ida and pingala instead of up the sushumna.
Am I correct?

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Nov 30 2010 11:07:09 PM
Message:

Hi, :)
I quit doing sambhavi during meditation in an effort to make the third eye visions diminish during meditation. I've been trying to find the source of the light in the AUM and I AM mantras.

Last night I had an interesting experience. As I lay in my bed, slowly drifting off to sleep, I focused on the place at the center of the head where the subvocalized mantra comes from and then focused my attention forward from there. I was doing something but I know not what. All of a sudden this very big bright white light appeared before my eyes, more on the right side of the face and straight ahead. It was like someone had turned on the bedroom light or I was on a road looking into a car's high-beams. I did not get too excited, but just excited enough to lose the light.

So, I tried it again. As my attention approached this combination of looking through the eyes separately and then together, from the perspective of looking forward from the center of my head, the light appeared again!

Then, I got too excited and started analysing the technique and then I couldn't hit the light anymore or maybe I fell asleep.

I hope to be able to get to that light as I fall asleep because I feel that it is significant that I do so..

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Dec 08 2010 11:21:05 PM
Message:

Hi, :)
For what it is worth...
I've been listening to "Finding the Still Point" by John Daido Lori. It is Zen breath meditation. I like his saying that, through perfect posture and stillness, the body dissolves and falls away. With continued practice, the mind dissolves and falls away too. So, I've spent a few days using a zafu to sit on, watching my posture and have even been meditating in full lotus (despite the pain lol).

Today, I just got thoroughly disgusted with all techniques and decided to just sit and watch my breath for both meditations. Even without doing anything, the visions or dreams come. During the afternoon meditation, I saw, for example, a scene from London with a black car in it, people walking on the street.. Then I saw a bright sun. Then I saw a lady in a long dark dress and apron walking by, looking at me, carrying a lamp. I put distance in between me and the scenes and regarded them as a tv that someone had forgotten to shut off. The feeling of the witness is growing considerably.

I did my best to ignore the scenes and not get interested in them. It was kind of like dispassionately observing, taking no interest or amazement, not trying to do anything. Just letting go.. It was a very restful meditation.

After that meditation I went to Wendy's and was standing in line, remaining perfectly still, waiting to order. Peaceful.. I was looking at the till counter, at the advertisement there, when all of a sudden the whole place lit up in very bright colors and superb detail. There were about 7 people working behind the counter, cooking, making burgers, manning the tills and running about. I was aware of all of them at the same time as well as the entire room. It felt like I was watching a High Def movie, like my awareness had expanded into an area about 30 feet in circumference directly before me. I felt like it was me, that I was the whole scene.

This is my fourth satori moment that I've experienced during the last 3 1/2 years. It lasted about 1 minute and then fizzled out, fading in and out after that. I tried to hang on to it, but just couldn't do so. I think it is related to fostering an attitude of detachment and stillness during meditation, and it carried over into everyday life.

I am pleased that these satori moments are still occuring. I used to think it was related to being in awe of the scene that I was percieving, like a beautiful tree or scenic river valley. But now I realize that these moments come from within and when they occur, it renders whatever you are looking at into a beautiful crisp clear colorful bright shiny field of awareness..

Onward Ho!

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jan 06 2011 12:41:29 AM
Message:

Hi :)
I quit mantra repetition, pranayama practices and almost everything about four weeks ago. I just got to the point where, after 3 1/2 years of regular practices, I felt I was getting nowhere. During that time I had many experiences, wonderful visions and great kundalini experiences of prolonged ecstatic conductivity. My only desire is to know the Self, to become enlightened and somehow I felt I wasn't getting any closer, that I was being lost in experiences, visions and impermanent phenomenon.

I feel that I've never experienced 'deep silence' except for a few times when I 'fell into a black hole like I was about to fall asleep and lose consciousness'. Any gaps in between thoughts were just that, gaps, but during those gaps there was always a background, some light or vision there beyond. I guess I've never realized deep silence.. This has frustrated me..

But this is what got me the most. This is a quote from Ramana's "Be as You Are" http://bhagavan-ramana.org/selfenqu...ractice.html :

quote:

Question: When I am engaged in enquiry as to the source from which the ‘I’ springs, I arrive at a stage of stillness of mind beyond which I find myself unable to proceed further. I have no thought of any kind and there is an emptiness, a blankness. A mild light pervades and I feel that it is myself bodiless. I have neither cognition nor vision of body or form. The experience lasts nearly half an hour and is pleasing. Would I be correct in concluding that all that was necessary to secure eternal happiness, that is freedom or salvation or whatever one calls it, was to continue the practice till the experience could be maintained for hours, days and months together?

Sri Ramana Maharshi: This does not mean salvation. Such a condition is termed Manolaya or temporary stillness of thought. Manolaya means concentration, temporarily arresting the movement of thoughts. As soon as this concentration ceases, thoughts, old and new, rush in as usual; and even if this temporary lulling of mind should last a thousand years, it will never lead to total destruction of thought, which is what is called liberation from birth and death.

The practitioner must therefore be ever on the alert and enquire within as to who has this experience, who realises its pleasantness. Without this enquiry he will go into a long trance or deep sleep (Yoga Nidra). Due to the absence of a proper guide at this stage of spiritual practice, many have been deluded and fallen a prey to a false sense of liberation and only a few have managed to reach the goal safely.





No, I did not quit meditating, but I have changed the type of meditation that I'm doing. I am seeking the "I am": Sometimes, during meditations, I just turn my point-of-view around backwards and try to see who is looking out. That doesn't seem to be working well, it feels like more of an intellectual exercise with the small mind.

Mostly, I have been sitting quietly focusing on the feeling of "I am" for my regular practices. If a vision appears, I ask "to who is this vision occurring?". If I feel a sensation or hear a noise I ask "to whom is this occurring?". This was the chosen method to return the attention inwards, perhaps towards the witness, but definitely towards the feeling of "I am".
During these practices this is what I've discovered:

1) After about 10 to 15 minutes of sitting, I feel a transition to the sleep stage whereupon I can view dreams appear, waiting to carry my attention away. If I don't focus on them and keep my attention focused inward towards "who is this vision appearing to?", then I don't get caught up in the dream(s) or visions. The dreams appear as if on a screen and there is distance between 'me' and the 'screen' surrounded by twilight vast open luminous space.

2) It had occurred to me, after hearing about the body's natural cycles of consciousness (normal consciousness, sleep with dreams, sleep with no dreams) and that these cycles occur in 90 minute rotations, that if one were to just sit silently and watch, one would experience the complete cycle in about 90 minutes. Hence, one would experience the state of 'deep sleep with no dreams' which is supposed to be the same state as deep silence. During a few extended sittings of 90 minutes or more, I recognized the various states, including the visual state of perceiving the chakras, the golden light, the etheric body.. The occurrence of these phenomenon seems to be very consistent and occurs spontaneously if you just let everything be and just watch without interfering.. Also, the witness seems to be a one dimensional mirror that reflects whatever it comes into contact with. Perhaps it is more of a filter? I feel that I am not the witness. Why? Because the Witness has no feeling of "I am".

3) At first it was very hard to find the feeling of "I am" and stay with it. During the first days of this style of meditation I found that I had a feeling of me if I thought of something, that is, if there was mental movement. I could taste a flavor of 'me' embedded in the thoughts. Then, for a few days, after reading some of Ramana's writings, I decided that the feeling of "I am" was the ego. Now, this is contrary to what Nisargadatta says about the sense of "I am" coming before anything else, but it was worth a try. The ego feeling for me seems to be behind the eyes towards the back of the head and I developed pressure and some pain from trying to maintain that perspective of attention. However, Ramana maintains that focusing on the ego will eventually deepen into feeling the "I am".

4) There is a feeling of 'me' that is looking out from my eyes, that never seems to change, this 'me' has existed as long as I can remember and is tied to various memories of experiences. The trouble with that feeling is that there must be something to look at in order to feel it's presence. And the feeling is very fleeting, easily clouded over..

5) Last night, in an effort to distill the 'feeling of I am" from my ego, memories and really look into it, I did a regression meditation and tried to remember as many events in my life, going as far back as I could. When I was finished, I asked myself "who was I before I was born?". This resulted in a small black hole and no response. I sat and waited in silence for any answer or vision, but nothing came. After that I realized that I was severely overloaded and had to ground myself... my head felt like a football.

6) Have you ever heard the idea that "Attention is not awareness"? Have you ever noticed that you might be thinking of something with highly focused attention and you will still hear a bird chirping, a dog barking etc? How can you be aware of things that you are not paying attention to? That is because there is something else, not the little you, that is registering these events. This realization has led me to believe that the little mind has a tool called attention, but the "bigger mind" has a much larger tool called awareness that works without effort or even intervention by the small mind (If I can put it that way ala Zen, you know, Big Mind small mind..).

7) This morning I read this, from the book called "Hunting the I" by Lucy Cornelssen
quote:

Keep very quiet and observe: This ‘I’ does neither think nor will; it has no qualities, is neither man nor woman, has neither body nor mind; it has no trace of the ‘Person’ which you had in mind during your previous questions about the ‘I’. It simply is conscious of itself as ‘I am’. Not ‘I am this’, ‘I am that’; only ‘Iam’.............................................................................
But beware: It’s not you who has this ‘I’...Consciousness as an object, but this Consciousness is your real ‘I’! This pure be-ing ‘I am’ is the first glimpse of the real ‘I’, the Self, which is by nature Pure Consciousness.




So, for my morning meditation I did exactly that. I sat very quietly and observed what was conscious of itself.. the feeling of "I am", that which comes before the mind and body are created.. trying to feel the "I" without effort, from the 'big mind', like hearing the dog bark.

well, to my surprise, after about 3 minutes of closing in on the "I" I found it! Or at least I think I have.

The circle of self attention, directed inwards towards the source of awareness, compressed (or revealed itself) and I found myself staring at a golden ball with various colors of light hanging around it's outside. When I asked the question "who is seeing this ball of fluidic light" I found myself inside the golden ball of light and could no longer see it. It felt very blissful, quiet and peaceful. Then, when I asked "who is feeling this bliss, quiet and peace?" I was ejected from that state and I realized that the mind was surrounding it with thoughts, and that my small mind had posed the question. I could see a meshing of white light filaments that I knew were thoughts. I came to the conclusion that thoughts can create other thoughts and that thoughts can grasp onto other thoughts. But inside the golden ball of light it was different. The thoughts were out there and "I" was in here.

Then I remembered, "Abide as the self". So I went back into the ball of golden luminous light and tried to stay there. It felt so wonderful, quiet, blissful, peaceful.. Then I came out, went back in, came out and kept this up for a bit. When I was out I could see the golden ball, the feeling was mildy ecstatic and I could sense the inner body. There were very fine tingles/vibrations spreading downwards towards my heart and it caused very ecstatic vibrations in the heart. Then the feeling continued down to the root.. all three centres were becoming alive with ecstatic vibrations. Then I felt a nice warmth emanate from top of the neck/base of the brain and go down the spine (or sushumna..?) I was surprised that there were ecstatic energy flows occurring.. uh, well maybe not now. I just remembered about melting the white drops causing them to drip down the sushumna (Tibetan Tummo practices..) causing ecstatic flows..

The meditation ended way too soon (35 minutes on a timer). I was very happy, awe-struck and inspired. I had realized the "I am"! Even now, a few hours after the experience, I have a kind of bliss happening and I can't wait for my next meditation session, to abide as the "I am". I feel like I have had a major breakthrough, a milestone.. a first baby step.. :)

I am trying to make sense of the experience for it seems that the "I am" is located inside the same area of the brain as the medulla oblongata. I remember Yogananda's teachings (Kriya Yoga), where it says that the medulla is the "Mouth of God", that this is the connection to God, that through which we are sustained by divine energy, and that we can draw upon that energy if so desired..

I wonder...

Since that meditation, my meditations have been very difficult. The excitement is hard to contain and is definately stiring my mind. I have to learn to focus on the "I am", and not on the "Golden ball of fluid light".. Also, there seems to be more space deep inside and the thoughts/energies/visions seem to be moving faster and easier than ever before.. I wonder if this is a side effect of some sort of clearing..

Anyway, that is my latest update..

:)
TI


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jan 06 2011 04:07:32 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
I had realized the "I am"!


What exactly do you mean by "I had realized the "I am"!".

Is it being inside the Golden Ball or just the blissuful state?


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jan 06 2011 10:11:51 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by manigma

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
I had realized the "I am"!


What exactly do you mean by "I had realized the "I am"!".

Is it being inside the Golden Ball or just the blissuful state?





Hi Manigma, nice to hear from you :)

The whole experience was caused by my focusing on the feeling of "I am" but not just by focusing on the egocentrical me or the region I was placing attention on (again the small mind). I was trying to tap into that which perceives itself as existing and from a very broad perspective. I was trying to perceive that which hears the dog bark or the furnace kick in even when there is no conscious attention being paid to it.

Lately I've been thinking two things about that experience: 1) Focusing on the feeling of "I am" is a way to turn your attention inward, and, 2) Patanjali's samyama is a technique where you hold the object of concentration in continuous conscious attention until the object and subject merge into one, producing a state of samadhi. Depending on your choice of objects, different results are produced. Meditating on the feeling of "I am" is like performing Patanjali's samyama on yourself! So it must be a good way to realize what you are.

I don't think I have truly realized the "I am", I think I have simply found a method of finding the "I am" and it worked once. It is like a baby step. I found the door and went in and out a few times. Still can't reproduce it at will but it was sure nice to get a taste. :)

Funny, too, when I was 'in' the golden ball, I did not feel anything or sense anything in a mind or body way. And actually, I don't even know if I was really inside the golden ball. It was only when I came out that I could see the ball and realized the bliss, peace and energy movements that were occuring. After the first entrance and exit, by again seeking the feeling of "I am" everything disappeared again, so I am assuming that I was actually inside the golden ball. But at that point, focusing on the feeling of "I am" was the key to getting back into that state.

All the best to you :)

TI


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jan 07 2011 01:10:29 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Funny, too, when I was 'in' the golden ball, I did not feel anything or sense anything in a mind or body way. And actually, I don't even know if I was really inside the golden ball. It was only when I came out that I could see the ball and realized the bliss, peace and energy movements that were occuring. After the first entrance and exit, by again seeking the feeling of "I am" everything disappeared again, so I am assuming that I was actually inside the golden ball. But at that point, focusing on the feeling of "I am" was the key to getting back into that state.


That is a beautiful experience TI. You are certainly on the right track and I am very happy the way you get a visual experience of it.

Next time try to break the ball from the inside when you are inside.

Let us know how it goes.


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Jan 08 2011 10:13:55 AM
Message:

Hi TI,

Great to hear you are taking some baby steps forward!

The golden ball is most likely your causal body (karana sharira). It is also sometimes called the bliss sheath (anadamayakosha). It is the third body and the 5th sheath. Both the conscious mind (manas) and the unconscious mind (chitta) are unable to enter the causal body, which is why it is so quiet in there. Also the 5 pranas are unable to enter so it's pretty still inside. You won't find much to distract yourself, unless you are really determined!

It is the body which is closest to the soul (atman). The first layer of the onion so to speak. Only the Buddhi (intuitive intelligence) and the ahamkara (ego) are able to enter the causal body.

Don't get stuck on it... your goal lies ahead my friend!

Carry on with your meditation practice.

Christi


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jan 09 2011 12:35:12 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Hi TI,

Great to hear you are taking some baby steps forward!

The golden ball is most likely your causal body (karana sharira). It is also sometimes called the bliss sheath (anadamayakosha). It is the third body and the 5th sheath. Both the conscious mind (manas) and the unconscious mind (chitta) are unable to enter the causal body, which is why it is so quiet in there. Also the 5 pranas are unable to enter so it's pretty still inside. You won't find much to distract yourself, unless you are really determined!

It is the body which is closest to the soul (atman). The first layer of the onion so to speak. Only the Buddhi (intuitive intelligence) and the ahankara (ego) are able to enter the causal body.

Don't get stuck on it... your goal lies ahead my friend!

Carry on with your meditation practice.

Christi


Hi Christi :) So nice to hear from you again. And congratulations on your successful completion of the monolithic yoga instructor course that you took!

Thank you for your perspective on my experience. That is so interesting.. I found this link about the "karana Sharira" and have been reading about it. Yes, I would certainly describe it as a "Golden Seed".

http://www.rainbowbody.com/newartic...ergybody.htm

Interesting:
quote:

Sharira: Body. There are three sharira, the gross body(sthula sharira) , the subtle or astral body(sukshma sharira), and the causal body(karana sharira). The karana sharira is called the body of the seed of all seeds.

...
5) The anandamaya kosha (literally the bliss sheath) which is associated with the karana sharira or causal/seed body. In some systems there is a sixth sheath, the Hiranyagarbha kosha (which here will be discussed as existing as one aspect inside the anandamaya kosha). This karana sharira corresponds to the vajra body or diamond heart -- the immutable changeless and indestructible body of the primordial Buddha whose vehicle is the Dharmakaya.



and this:

quote:


Thirdly, those who have worked with the physical and subtle bodies in yoga in their past life and/or through extremely fortunate karma in past lives, or otherwise through Grace, then gather up their consciousness and energy consciously into the subtle body and from there having forged the connections to the karana sharira consciously bathe in pure bliss of undiluted love.





And I have found this reference too from one of my favorite sources.. Here is the link:
http://www.himalayanacademy.com/res...atures.shtml

quote:

Let's ask the question, "What, exactly, is it that makes this spiritual progress?" Not the personality. Not the intellect. Not the emotions. It is, of course, the soul. In thinking of spiritual progress, it is helpful to understand the concept of the soul as a human-like, self-effulgent form comprised of the life and light we previously talked about. Technically, there are two terms in Sanskrit for this immortal soul body: anandamaya kosha, "bliss body," and karana sharira, "causal body." Just as our physical body matures from an infant into an adult, so too does this self-effulgent body of light mature in resplendence and intelligence, evolving as its consciousness expands, gradually strengthening its inner nerve system, progressing from ignorance of God to intimate communion with God. In Sanskrit, this advancing on the path is called adhyatma prasara, spiritual evolution. It is a process that takes place over many lifetimes, not just one.



Don't worry, I'm not planning on stopping meditating any time soon, it's just starting to get really interesting!


:)
TI


Reply author: John C
Replied on: Jan 09 2011 02:23:50 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Hi TI,

Great to hear you are taking some baby steps forward!

The golden ball is most likely your causal body (karana sharira). It is also sometimes called the bliss sheath (anadamayakosha). It is the third body and the 5th sheath. Both the conscious mind (manas) and the unconscious mind (chitta) are unable to enter the causal body, which is why it is so quiet in there. Also the 5 pranas are unable to enter so it's pretty still inside. You won't find much to distract yourself, unless you are really determined!

It is the body which is closest to the soul (atman). The first layer of the onion so to speak. Only the Buddhi (intuitive intelligence) and the ahankara (ego) are able to enter the causal body.

Don't get stuck on it... your goal lies ahead my friend!

Carry on with your meditation practice.

Christi


Neti, Neti, Not This! Here at AYP we say that all visions, even of Golden Balls, are just scenery along the way. Place no significance in these visions. All interpretations are conjectural! The small self would love to view the scenery as accomplishment. But just favor your meditation practices. Remember, Neti,Neti!


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jan 09 2011 03:12:57 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi
The golden ball is most likely your causal body (karana sharira). It is also sometimes called the bliss sheath (anadamayakosha).


I think The Golden Ball that TI is referring to is infact The Mind itself (or the mind sheath / Manomayi Kosha).

http://www.sanatansociety.org/yoga_...has_yoga.htm

I am trying to break it permanently from last over 2 years.

And its pretty amusing I say.

*cough* *cough*


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Jan 10 2011 12:11:18 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by manigma

quote:
Originally posted by Christi
The golden ball is most likely your causal body (karana sharira). It is also sometimes called the bliss sheath (anadamayakosha).


I think The Golden Ball that TI is referring to is infact The Mind itself (or the mind sheath / Manomayi Kosha).

http://www.sanatansociety.org/yoga_...has_yoga.htm

I am trying to break it permanently from last over 2 years.

And its pretty amusing I say.

*cough* *cough*





The manomaya kosha (mental sheath) is one of the three koshas of the astral body (sukshma sharira). The astral body is the body of light which is the same shape as the physical body.

Without your mental sheath, you wouldn't be able to think, so be careful not to break it!


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Jan 10 2011 12:14:35 PM
Message:

Hi TI,

"having forged the connections to the karana sharira consciously bathe in pure bliss of undiluted love."

Yes, that's the causal body.

From here on you have to rely on grace to take you the rest of the way.

Good luck!


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jan 10 2011 6:40:00 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by John C
Neti, Neti, Not This! Here at AYP we say that all visions, even of Golden Balls, are just scenery along the way. Place no significance in these visions. All interpretations are conjectural! The small self would love to view the scenery as accomplishment. But just favor your meditation practices. Remember, Neti,Neti!



Hi John, :)
Thank you for your input.
I agree, if you are seeing scenery, that's not it. More important is "who is seeing the scenery". My experience was one of going back and forth from 'inside the golden ball' to 'outside the golden ball'. When I was 'inside' (or wherever I was) there was no scenery.

On another note, I thought I would introduce Ramana's position on the "neti neti" just to clarify and gain some perspective:


link:
http://bhagavan-ramana.org/selfenqu...eptions.html

quote:

Another widespread misunderstanding arose from the belief that the Self could be discovered by mentally rejecting all the objects of thought and perception as not-self. Traditionally this is called the Neti-Neti approach (not this, not this). The practitioner of this system verbally rejects all the objects that the ‘I’ identifies with –‘I am not the mind’, ‘ I am not the body’, etc.-in the expectation that the real ‘I’ will eventually be experienced in the pure uncontaminated form. Hinduism calls this practice ‘self-enquiry’ and, because of the identity of names, it was often confused with Sri Ramana Maharshi’s method. Sri Ramana Maharshi’s attitude to this traditional system of self-analysis was wholly negative and he discouraged his own followers from practising it by telling them that it was an intellectual activity which could not take them beyond the mind. In his standard reply to questions about the effectiveness of his practice he would say that the ‘I’-thought is sustained by such acts of discrimination and that the ‘I’ which eliminates the body and the mind as ‘not I’ can never eliminate itself.



:)
TI


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jan 10 2011 11:59:16 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Without your mental sheath, you wouldn't be able to think, so be careful not to break it!


Well I am not thinking when I am breaking it.

So I guess I can live without it and the shariras.


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Jan 11 2011 03:01:26 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by manigma

quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Without your mental sheath, you wouldn't be able to think, so be careful not to break it!


Well I am not thinking when I am breaking it.

So I guess I can live without it and the shariras.





Not really. The one thing you can't do without the shariras (bodies) is live! That's what they are designed for, and the only function they serve.

As for the causal body, you can't break it. It is made of a matter far more subtle even than prana. You simply don't have anything that you could break it with.

If I were you I would stop trying to break it and start doing something more useful with your energy.


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jan 11 2011 04:07:56 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Not really. The one thing you can't do without the shariras (bodies) is live! That's what they are designed for, and the only function they serve.


I must be thinking when I wrote that. I should have used the words like "exist" or "being" instead of live.
quote:

As for the causal body, you can't break it. It is made of a matter far more subtle even than prana. You simply don't have anything that you could break it with.


Whatever is built can also be broken. Its just that something's are much tougher to break (especially those which have taken lives to build).
quote:

If I were you I would stop trying to break it and start doing something more useful with your energy.


Like what?


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Jan 11 2011 04:46:13 AM
Message:

Hi Manigma,

quote:
quote:
If I were you I would stop trying to break it and start doing something more useful with your energy.


Like what?


Like surrendering, and becoming a channel of Divine love on Earth. You don't need to break down what has been built. It serves a purpose. Without it the Divine light cannot flow into the universe.

Become a channel for that light, and love and serve in the world. For that you need a stronger causal body, not a broken one, one which is better able to illuminate the manifest creation and flow as love into the hearts of others.


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jan 11 2011 06:06:47 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Like surrendering, and becoming a channel of Divine love on Earth. You don't need to break down what has been built. It serves a purpose. Without it the Divine light cannot flow into the universe.

Become a channel for that light, and love and serve in the world. For that you need a stronger causal body, not a broken one, one which is better able to illuminate the manifest creation and flow as love into the hearts of others.


The Universe and the Divine Light are both creations of your mind.

As long as the mind exists, you will keep producing more Universes and bringing Divine Light into them.

I see the Universe just as I see a Mayfly.


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Jan 12 2011 06:15:38 AM
Message:

Hi Manigma,

quote:

The Universe and the Divine Light are both creations of your mind.

As long as the mind exists, you will keep producing more Universes and bringing Divine Light into them.




Almost. The universe, as we see it, is a creation of the mind, but divine light exists before the mind. Mind, and the universe, which is it's projection, are lower manifestations of that light.

The causal body exists beyond the mind, and is created from divine light. It is created by the light that you are. It is also created by the love that you are.

If you want to spend your time trying to destroy what you are, that is up to you. But when you have finished, remember there is another way.

Christi


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jan 12 2011 08:42:56 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Hi Manigma,

quote:

The Universe and the Divine Light are both creations of your mind.

As long as the mind exists, you will keep producing more Universes and bringing Divine Light into them.




Almost. The universe, as we see it, is a creation of the mind, but divine light exists before the mind. Mind, and the universe, which is it's projection, are lower manifestations of that light.

The causal body exists beyond the mind, and is created from divine light. It is created by the light that you are. It is also created by the love that you are.

If you want to spend your time trying to destroy what you are, that is up to you. But when you have finished, remember there is another way.

Christi


I am not trying to destroy myself. I am freeing myself.

I know I am already free.

And it doesn't really bother me anymore whether I am looking at a Snake or a Rope. Sitting in the Darkness or Light. The Universe is so damn perfect!

Its just really not me who is doing this breaking the mind stuff. Its just happening. And the more I let it happen... the more freedom.


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Jan 12 2011 11:09:12 AM
Message:

Hi Manigma,

quote:
I am not trying to destroy myself. I am freeing myself.

I know I am already free.

And it doesn't really bother me anymore whether I am looking at a Snake or a Rope. Sitting in the Darkness or Light. The Universe is so damn perfect!

Its just really not me who is doing this breaking the mind stuff. Its just happening. And the more I let it happen... the more freedom.



It seems to me that you are talking about the mental realm when I am talking about the causal realm. The snake and the rope (form) exist in the mental realm, as does darkness and light (duality). And the separation between self and other ("it's really not me") is also a mental realm phenomenon.

Beyond form, beyond duality, and beyond separation is the causal realm. Beyond the causal realm is Spirit (Brahman). The realization of Spirit happens through the crown chakra and is described in lesson 199.

http://www.aypsite.org/199.html

Christi


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jan 12 2011 11:38:14 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Hi Manigma,

quote:
I am not trying to destroy myself. I am freeing myself.

I know I am already free.

And it doesn't really bother me anymore whether I am looking at a Snake or a Rope. Sitting in the Darkness or Light. The Universe is so damn perfect!

Its just really not me who is doing this breaking the mind stuff. Its just happening. And the more I let it happen... the more freedom.



It seems to me that you are talking about the mental realm when I am talking about the causal realm. The snake and the rope (form) exist in the mental realm, as does darkness and light (duality). And the separation between self and other ("it's really not me") is also a mental realm phenomenon.

Beyond form, beyond duality, and beyond separation is the causal realm. Beyond the causal realm is Spirit (Brahman). The realization of Spirit happens through the crown chakra and is described in lesson 199.

http://www.aypsite.org/199.html

Christi


I am talking about freedom from everything. Duality, Realms, Chakras...

Its the play of energy. And I have played enough.

It was only in the beginning when I was making efforts, that I was passing through some strange experiences; seeing lights, hearing voices, meeting gods and goddesses and conversing with them. Once the Guru told me: 'You are the Supreme Reality', I ceased having visions and trances and became very quiet and simple. I found myself desiring and knowing less and less, until I could say in utter astonishment: 'I know nothing, I want nothing.' - Nisargadatta

Less and less. Beautiful!


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Jan 12 2011 11:54:06 AM
Message:

Hi Manigma,

quote:

I am talking about freedom from everything. Duality, Realms, Chakras...



This is Brahman, beyond the causal. It is everywhere and everything and at the same time nowhere and nothing (shunya). The gateway is above the Brahmarundra, which is above the crown chakra.


Then everything dissolves into pure bliss consciousness, and expands into the heart as outpouring divine love. Bliss, because everything is very simple and innocent, and love because everything is connected and whole.

But the playing never stops. Only we do.

Christi


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jan 12 2011 10:05:55 PM
Message:

Hi :)
I just want to mention this. I've never thought that I hit deep silence during the last 3 1/2 years of meditation because I've always seen things, even when there were no apparent thoughts in my mind. I mean, I've had experiences where, after extended meditations, I could see three outlines of my body, just hanging out there in a huge empty dark emptiness that resembled outer-space. But I could always see things so I assumed that it was not the AYP 'deep silence'. Funny that nobody could help me out there.

But then, today, I found this (Sri Ramana):
http://bhagavan-ramana.org/selfenqu...eptions.html


quote:

Of course there is also the practice of meditation on the Heart-centre. It is only a practice and not investigation. Only the one who meditates on the Heart can remain aware when the mind ceases to be active and remains still, whereas those who meditate on other centres cannot be so aware but infer that the mind was still only after it becomes again active.




So, now I believe that it is possible to experience deep silence and be aware of what is occuring, because I've done alot of heart meditations. So maybe I have hit deep silence more often than I've thought. Interesting eh?

:)
TI


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jan 13 2011 12:22:55 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Hi Manigma,

quote:

I am talking about freedom from everything. Duality, Realms, Chakras...



This is Brahman, beyond the causal. It is everywhere and everything and at the same time nowhere and nothing (shunya). The gateway is above the Brahmarundra, which is above the crown chakra.


Then everything dissolves into pure bliss consciousness, and expands into the heart as outpouring divine love. Bliss, because everything is very simple and innocent, and love because everything is connected and whole.

But the playing never stops. Only we do.

Christi


Yes, every Jnani has said this, so it must be true:

This is my favorite explanation:

But, then, again, when the individual becomes a Jnani and when it realises the Infinite Being, the world still exists for the other individuals who have not realised the Truth. Hence the world cannot be the creation of the subjective imagination. It must have an objective reality. Thus, we come to the dilemma that the subjective and the objective aspects of consciousness are both creators as well as not creators of the universe. But the truth seems to be that both are partly true and partly incorrect.

The universe is the production of the collective totality of all the individual minds put together. This totality is termed the cosmic Mind. When the individual realises Brahman, the world vanishes to it, for the nature of Brahman is contrary to that of the world. But the world exists to other individuals even after the Self-realization of an individual, for the world is sustained by the mental forces of the remaining individuals.

Thus the loss of an individual through its Self-realization must effect a great change in the universal force of creativity. The universe is thus the construction of thoughts that are interrelated. Birth and death are of such cause, individuality is due to such reason, as is the nature of the creation of the universe.

~Swami Sivananda


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jan 13 2011 12:25:57 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
So, now I believe that it is possible to experience deep silence and be aware of what is occuring, because I've done alot of heart meditations. So maybe I have hit deep silence more often than I've thought. Interesting eh?


Deep Silence is like your whole body is burning with fire and you are crying in pain... but still you are silent.

Its like watching everything (including yourself and your actions/emotions) in 3rd person. This 3rd person is the silent witnesses who just observes. In the body yet severed from it and the mind.

This silence is so deep and thick that nothing can create a ripple over it.

Its like you are aware/conscious yet unconsciously deep asleep.


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Jan 13 2011 03:14:45 AM
Message:

Hi TI and Manigma,

quote:
Tibetan Ice wrote:
I mean, I've had experiences where, after extended meditations, I could see three outlines of my body, just hanging out there in a huge empty dark emptiness that resembled outer-space. But I could always see things so I assumed that it was not the AYP 'deep silence'. Funny that nobody could help me out there.


quote:
Manigma wrote:
Deep Silence is like your whole body is burning with fire and you are crying in pain... but still you are silent.


I didn't know there was an "AYP deep silence"? Yogani talks about "inner silence", and he calls his meditation practice "Deep Meditation". So you may be mixing the two up. That could be why nobody could help you out there.

Inner silence is a peculiar thing, and it is the hardest thing to understand. This is because it is not necessarily silent. It can actually be quite loud, or even very loud at times. It can also be absolutely silent at times. It is also not necessarily devoid of images, either physical, or astral, or causal, although at times, it may be.

In it's most basic sense, inner silence is a sense of detachment from the play of what is happening. Sound may be present and sights may be seen, but this detachment gives a sense of "otherness". At first it may feel strange, and then gradually becomes more peaceful and blissful. When this peaceful (witness) state becomes so established that it is not effected by any external or internal condition, then this is said to be savikalpa samadhi. As inner silence deepens, we go beyond the physical, astral and causal and enter a state beyond sight and sound and time. This is full nirvikalpa samadhi.

The highest stage of nirvikalpa samadhi is one where we are fully functional in the world on all levels.

So all of this is inner silence: beginning with the witness, equanimity and discernment, and progressing through surrender, peace and bliss and moving towards wholeness and love.

The last stage (wholeness and love) is only made possible through the rise and expansion of ecstasy within the body and beyond the body. At first this ecstasy can be experienced as if the whole body is burning with fire and there can be pain associated with that. If this is happening it is a sign that we are moving ahead too fast and need to self pace. Gradually, as the nerves (nadis) are purified, the burning sensation changes into one of ecstasy. This happens because the nerve channels of the body are purified enough to take the charge of the higher voltage of prana moving through the body.

So it all has to work together, which is why it is so important to have a balanced and fully integrated system of yoga practices in place. There can be (and often is) a tendency to "go for gold" using one practice or technique. But without a well rounded integral practice system, it can be a long and arduous process. It will work eventually if their is enough will, but it is slow and can be both painful and frustrating along the way.

All the best

Christi


Reply author: miguel
Replied on: Jan 13 2011 04:17:44 AM
Message:

Thanks for sharing your wisdom christi.It inspires me.


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jan 13 2011 06:12:15 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi
So it all has to work together, which is why it is so important to have a balanced and fully integrated system of yoga practices in place. There can be (and often is) a tendency to "go for gold" using one practice or technique. But without a well rounded integral practice system, it can be a long and arduous process. It will work eventually if their is enough will, but it is slow and can be both painful and frustrating along the way.


Yes, the shortcuts can be risky and dangerous. But my Guru (Osho) initiated me to it. He gave me Brahmabhyasa.

Its similar to what was given to Nisargaddatta by his Guru.

And like the spine of all systems, its driven by grace and trust.

The affirmation of Absoluteness is suited only for the highest class of aspirants whose minds are ready to receive the higher spiritual Light. When the Sadhaka practises such severe assertions the physical consciousness will try to revolt against all measures taken against its well-being. The general result of such affirmations by weak-minded aspirants is great fear and shock. The Divine Consciousness tries to manifest itself in the individual and shatters the ego like a mad elephant that has entered a small hut. This supreme meditation is called Brahmabhavana or Brahmabhyasa. The force of intense meditation lights up the entire materialised nature and at once liberates the soul like a sudden flash of lightning. At one stroke the universe dwindles into nothingness and the Majesty of Brahman is revealed. This is the Goal.
~Swami Sivananda

The Grace is always shining like the Sun. Just open the windows... and in flows the light and love.


Reply author: Yonatan
Replied on: Jan 13 2011 07:04:17 AM
Message:



Manigma,

"The Grace is always shining like the Sun. Just open the windows... and in flows the light and love."

Oh yeah!!!!

Love


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Jan 13 2011 09:03:28 AM
Message:

Hi Manigma,

quote:
The affirmation of Absoluteness is suited only for the highest class of aspirants whose minds are ready to receive the higher spiritual Light. When the Sadhaka practises such severe assertions the physical consciousness will try to revolt against all measures taken against its well-being. The general result of such affirmations by weak-minded aspirants is great fear and shock. The Divine Consciousness tries to manifest itself in the individual and shatters the ego like a mad elephant that has entered a small hut. This supreme meditation is called Brahmabhavana or Brahmabhyasa. The force of intense meditation lights up the entire materialised nature and at once liberates the soul like a sudden flash of lightning. At one stroke the universe dwindles into nothingness and the Majesty of Brahman is revealed. This is the Goal.
~Swami Sivananda


Yes, this is exactly what I was talking about. A more balanced practice working with both inner silence and on the purification of the subtle channels, with careful pacing, leads to the same goal, but without the physical and mental pain.

Your call of course.

The quote could be from Krishnananda rather than Sivananda? Krishnananda was one of Sivananda's disciples. It comes from a commentary that Krishnananda wrote to a text written by Sivananda.

Christi


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jan 13 2011 9:37:37 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi
I didn't know there was an "AYP deep silence"? Yogani talks about "inner silence", and he calls his meditation practice "Deep Meditation". So you may be mixing the two up. That could be why nobody could help you out there.
...


Hi Christi :)
Yup, this is my ego coming out now. Thank you for the opportunity to watch it. It is a definate contraction, behind the eyes and progressing towards the back of the head.
There are references to "deep silence" in the AYP lessons. Here are some:

Lesson 20:
quote:

Experiencing the journey naturally unfolding through practices can be more than enough to believe in, once the process has gotten underway and our experiences of deep silence and bliss light the fire of our desire to go for more and more.



Lesson 85:
quote:

The second stage is the rise of ecstasy. This is prana going into a greatly expanded mode of functioning in our nervous system. It is sexual energy going up. It is kundalini. It is also pure bliss consciousness, deep silence, in motion inside us.
...
It can make for a very difficult journey trying to do the other things without a firm foundation in deep silence, in pure bliss consciousness.




Lesson 90:
quote:

Anyone who comes to deep silence in meditation feels this expansion also – going in, but also radiating something peaceful out into the physical world.



Lesson 94:
quote:

While meditation is usually a more gentle and blissful process, settling the nervous system down to deep silence and letting obstructions go in a global way, still, powerful experiences can come up in there.



Lesson 139:
quote:

We will be going from high pranic energization to deep silence. Mixing these two is very powerful, and it will be a different kind of experience in meditation.



Lesson 148:
quote:

A: When we do practices, we coax our nervous system into a different style of functioning -- sustaining deep silence (pure bliss consciousness).



Lesson 195:
quote:

That is as still as it gets, and then the inner obstructions dissolve in that state of deep silence in the nervous system. Once the obstructions are going, then the inner silence is with us more and more in daily activity.



But I can see your point. There are 245 references to "inner silence" in the Lessons from 10 to 288. Yikes! I've found a gap!

:)
TI


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Jan 14 2011 05:41:15 AM
Message:

Hi TI,

I think these are just 10 places where Yogani is using the phrase "deep silence" as synonymous with "inner silence". Inner silence goes all the way in to nirvikalpa samadhi, so it goes pretty deep. I'm sure Yogani will correct me if I'm wrong about this, and "deep silence" has some special significance in the main lessons.

The quote you found in lesson 195 is a description of full nirvikalpa samadhi which I mentioned above:

quote:
Yogani wrote:
That requires a method of using attention in a particular way with the mantra. If we do, then attention will repeatedly be left standing alone without any objects, including no mantra. That is as still as it gets, and then the inner obstructions dissolve in that state of deep silence in the nervous system. Once the obstructions are going, then the inner silence is with us more and more in daily activity.


Christi


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Feb 06 2011 7:32:05 PM
Message:

Hi,
This is an update.
For the past 6 weeks or so this has been my practice, at least twice a day for 35 minutes:
1) Short Prayers
2) Meditation: Abiding in the source of "Who am I" or presence/awareness.

The meditation technique:
Sit in meditation posture, close the eyes, try to sense the feeling of existence and awareness. If something appears, such as a thought, sensation or vision, turn the attention away from it and direct attention to what it is that is perceiving this object: Who is perceiving this thought? Who is it that feels this body sensation? Who is seeing this vision? Who is hearing the tinitus sounds?

As soon as I see a thought, I turn my attention away from it and try to reverse my point of view and abide in what is aware of the thought. I do the same for feelings/sensations and visions or anything that I can perceive. I am trying to abide in the perceiver.

As each meditation progresses the normal stages of going deeper appear: The etheric numby lifeforce is felt in the limbs of the body. Thoughts lessen and lessen. The etheric body and the chakras appear, along with the golden light in the center of the head, and then disappear. A general wave of swooning sensation appears and then the dreamstate appears accompanied by potential dreams and visions. A clear bright shiny liquid like awareness is seen. Then peace, silence, darkness or nothingness and effortlessness..

Again, the game is this: If I can perceive something (such as any and all of the stages listed above), I turn my attention to "who or what is doing to perceiving". I should mention that the turning of attention is effortless, it is not a constriction but a letting go of the object of perception and then sinking back into the feeling that I exist and that I am aware.

Experiences:
Twice I have woken in the middle of the night and heard a strange sound, like a conch blowing or a chord from a synthesizer. It came from the left side of my 'mind'. I've never heard anything like that before..

Last weekend I was lying in bed in the morning after a night's sleep and I was feeling like I was aware but with nothing in my mind. I felt like "I" was just lying there. I was aware that I existed and that I was aware. Then the alarm went off and I witnessed the construction of my 'self'. From the darkness came movement, light and a kind of ball or center appeared that had things/lights/thoughts stuck to it. Then I resumed my normal waking consciousness. Then I realized that I was 'there' before the alarm went off and that I had woken up after the alarm had gone off. In retrospect, I thought I was awake before the alarm went off! I now seem to be abiding in awareness during deep sleep with no dreams.

A few nights later, I was sleeping in bed and I was in deep sleep, no dreams. I was in the same state of being aware of nothing, but knowing that I was alive and aware. Again, I saw the creation of my 'self' appear. But this time there was a reason for it. My body had burped and some acidic fluids had come up into my throat. The strange thing is that it seemed like I watched it happen. My throat constricted, my body started to gag and choke. I thought I was going to choke to death. I sat up in bed, and forced myself to breathe. What an ordeal! I was sweating like crazy and through considerable effort managed to restore my breathing. Then I drank some water, ate a few tums and went back to bed.

Experiences during meditation:
A few times I've seen a huge 'me' that is not limited to the general area of the body or the location of my thoughts. It is bright and shiny and is filled with love. It reminds me of a smiling sky of light. It loves 'me' so much it is kind of embarrassing. I don't think it is the True Self because there was still someone ('me') watching it, but it was interesting nontheless..

Apart from that, the depth of the meditation has increased manyfold. There is considerable silence and thoughtlessness which carries over into the day following the meditations.

I've come to realize that thoughts (and mantras) take you away from the source (unless, of course, you wait for the thought or mantra to dissolve and try to see what it dissolved into, but even then, you can ask yourself, who is perceiving this black space of silence. Is this space only a lack of consciousness while awareness is still present? Probably..). However thoughts and mantras are an excellent tool in the journey towards the source. They are like little signs that say "This is not the way... turn around and go back to who or what is perceiving this sign"..

:)
TI


Reply author: bewell
Replied on: Feb 06 2011 8:46:05 PM
Message:

Thanks for sharing where you are at now.


Reply author: Steve
Replied on: Feb 09 2011 8:54:48 PM
Message:

Hi TI,

Your latest post was very informative and helpful. Sounds like you are making real progress. Congrats. Your sharing is very much appreciated. Please continue.

Love and Light,
Steve


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Feb 09 2011 10:41:34 PM
Message:

Hi Bewell and Steve :)
Thanks for your responses. I felt I had to write those experiences down. It helps me to release them and it is good to know that someone else can find some value in them.

So far the only consistent experiences, that I can't deny and never goes away, are 1) The fact that I exist and 2) The fact that I am aware. All other things seem to change..


I've been reading the John Wheeler books. I've finished "Awakening to the Natural State (2004)" and "The Light Behind Consciousness (2008)" and I am starting to read "Right Here, Right Now (2006)".

Here is a taste:
from his pointers at this link: http://www.naturalstate.us/pointers.html

quote:

This is not about being silent. The natural being, your innate nature is always there, doubtlessly present and registering everything. It is just what you are, effortlessly there at all times.



The natural, effortless being and knowing is already present. When that is overlooked, the mind presents an alternate identity in thought, which consists of the "I" notion and all of the self-centered thoughts about that "I".



Your being is always there. Consciousness as a state or experience is coming and going TO your innate, aware existence. Pure being and non-conceptual awareness are one and the same thing. You are that. You are still knowing the coming and going of the state of consciousness or lack of consciousness. That is already happening. That is what you already are.



You are already the pure awareness, but you are overlooking this present fact.




:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Apr 18 2011 12:21:39 PM
Message:

Hi :)
Time for an update.
I'm still meditating twice a day for 35 minutes each time. My meditation consists of trying to dwell in the "I AM", the feeling that I exist, the part of me that knows, that is still... you could call it awareness/presence.

During the last couple months I've read most of John Wheeler's books, a few books from Sailor Bob Adamson, more of Nisargadatta's writings and a book from Rodney Stevens.

My kundalini is still active. Usually, after meditation there is quite a build-up of enery at the root so, instead of letting it simmer for hours on end (which is very distracting) I will 'pulse' the root muscles a few times and take the energy up my central channel and shoot it out the top of my head. Feels just like a prolonged orgasm or two. Also, the perenium (root) is still my deep silence barometer; whenever my mind pauses or I experience a momentary thought gap, it starts to ache and pulse.

Although I have no great desire to post anything lately, what motivated me to post is this: During a few of my meditations a few months ago when I first started the self-inquiry meditations (dwelling in the perceiver) I went higher up in my mind's eye than I usually do. I was focusing on the things that occur in the periphery that I am effortlessly aware of, like a dog barking, a car driving by.. I was relaxing the mind, expanding my attention upwards and outwards and silently witnessing the fact that even though my attention may be occupied, the majority of objects, forms and events are still effortlessly registering in awareness. I was doing this and then moving my attention backwards from up there to see who was the observer, when I found a stream of light and color that looked like it was a big set of closed transparent lips. This band of colorful transparency was smiling at, loving me, sending me love and joy. It loved me so much I felt embarassed. I didn't make a big deal of this phenomenon, I only wondered if maybe this was some form of manifestation/ishta that was smiling at me, just another form.

So what is the big deal? This morning I found this writing from this link: http://thejohnward.tripod.com/shakti.html
I've bolded the part that hit me like a ton of bricks..

quote:

One great Jnani, said: This 'I am', this 'I amness' is the primary illusion, and the source of the illusion is Shakti Maya. The moment you observe 'I am' begin to manifest you see it is 'the love to be', the state of love of self. We love being, we love our being. It is due to desires contained in the subtle body. The knowledge of 'I am' is the greatest foe, and the greatest friend. Propitiate it properly and it will turn around and lead you to the highest state.

The experiment the jnani is referring to is the attempt to go as high as one possibly can inside one's head. Go up into the higher intellect. Then turn around. Turn completely around so that one is looking at what is behind one. What you see will surprise you. You will see the buddhi, the spiritual body, smiling at you. You may see that you, your nature, the natural body, the jiva, is nothing more than a projection of the buddhi, just like an actor projecting his part in a play. Then you may see very clearly that you do not exist. Further stages of discovery may lead you to the realization that the world is merely a projection of light upon the screen of the mind. Then you know that the whole universe is illusory.



Is that the buddhi? It looks like a chinook arch, transparent yet filled with light pastel colors of pink and blue. It is shiny and luminescent. It resembles a clear slit on the horizon in the cloudy sky of my mind-space, like lips stretched out horizontally. It emits love and joy, too much love and joy! It reminds me of a clown that is almost laughing at me. Like the joke is on me. Strange thoughts, eh?

Has anyone else out there had such an experience?


:)
TI


Reply author: Ananda
Replied on: Apr 18 2011 12:59:25 PM
Message:

I've experienced this state of being before

namaste


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: May 19 2011 10:30:21 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Ananda

I've experienced this state of being before

namaste


Hi Ananda, :)
Good to know. It seems to me in retrospect, that the thing that was evident and probably played a key role in the experience was the fact that as I was going upwards I hit a state where I realized that I didn't know how far I could stretch my mind. It was in this state of not-knowing that the top opened up.

All the best,
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: May 19 2011 11:17:10 PM
Message:

Hi,
Here is an update.
I've now spent a few months practising the type of meditation where you keep going backwards, trying to focus on "who or what is aware" of the thought, image, sensation etc. On a few days I have gone back to my old routine of pranayama and then mantra repetition just to see what it would do. They are still pretty powerful practices. A few times it overloaded me. But, right now, I am convinced that what the advaitists are saying, that "form cannot be used to grasp non-form" is probably correct. You can't use your mind to grasp presence. As Nisargadatta puts it, the "I AM" comes first, then the mind and the universe are created. You have to go prior to the mind.

I believe I know how to go 'prior to the mind' now.

Quite a few times now since I switched to abiding in the watcher type of meditation, after a full night's sleep I will find myself lying in bed before the alarm clock goes off. I'm just sitting there, everything is dark and silent. There are no thoughts or images or lights. The only thing that exists is that I know that I exist and I can feel that I exist. Then, when the alarm goes off, it is like an explosion of color, light and movement goes off and then I am awake.

I have concluded that this state is the "I AM" that Nisargadatta talks about. It does come before the mind and before consciousness. It is very subtle. But after experiencing it a few times naturally, during the waking stage after a night's sleep, it is getting easier to identify and go back to that state.

For today's morning meditation I decided to go back into that state and resolved to remain there. It is very simple. I just hit the knowledge, the knowing that I exist and at the same time, feel it. I remember the feeling and put myself back into it. The feeling seems to come from somewhere down, behind the body level with the heart, but in another plane or space. I withdraw from everything else, all thoughts, sensations, sounds. It is like this space opens up away from everything but yet it pervades the body and goes behind the body. There seems to be absolutely nothing in that space, perhaps it is a formless space or lack of space.

Anyway, during today's meditation I was successful in abiding in that "I AM" for short periods of time. My body turned into a field of blissfull warmth. The meditation sped right by. I enjoyed it immensely. Silent, dark, dead, no movement, yet warm and alive and mildly blissfull.

So why do I write about it? Well, this state caused my kundalini to become active. I noticed it a little during the meditation when I would pop out for a bit, but afterwards is when it really struck. Over the course of 3 hours after that meditation I experienced 8 or 9 up-the-spine orgasms, intense perineum ache, and waves of goose bumps and shivers coupled with great happiness and joy. I also experienced some pretty strong kriyas. At one point, my right arm jerked so violently that I sent the mouse and keyboard flying! I was just sitting there and my arm and body decided to jerk! I started getting worried about having to function properly during the day but the kriyas kind of dissipated so I wasn't worried for long.

It has been a challenge to finally realize what the "I AM" is. It is the knowledge that I exist accompanied by the feeling that I exist. After that, everything else including mind, consciousness and the universe come into play.

I feel like I am on the brink of something vast.

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: May 22 2011 01:36:46 AM
Message:

Hi :)
I had the most amazing experience this morning and I felt I have to write about it.
First off, let me say that I have been doing two 35 minute meditation sessions, regularily, every day, but since two weeks ago, I've also added Jack Kornfield's "Mind Like Sky" meditation from the "Guided Meditation" CD. What I've been doing is hiking out into the bush, by the river, in the evenings. I walk to my favorite bench and then play the meditation on my iphone. It is such a wonderful thing to do, sitting out in the middle of the forest, listening to the sounds, watching the trees and the greenery come alive.

I've never liked guided meditations and quite frankly, have only ever listened to them. I've always thought that one should meditate under one's own steam and that turning control over to the speaker or guide, was somewhat akin to some form of hypnosis. But after listening to this "Mind like Sky" meditation, being so similar to what Tolle had presented by ringing his bell and instructing you to listen intently to it as it died away, leaving a hole of silence, I decided to give it a go. The other point that was driving my decision is the fact that a month or so ago I discovered that even though a person (me) is focusing their attention on something, you are still hearing other sounds effortlessly, all the time. Hence, the field of attention was/is a lot larger than I had spent most of my life assuming. I didn't realize before just how vast attention can be. This guided meditation seemed to develop that aspect of spaciousness of mind.

Anyway, this morning, as I was driving to the store to do some grocery shopping, I was thinking about what I should buy. I thought of three meats to buy, one was a barbecued chicken, the other was steak and the third thing was hamburger so I could make some spaghetti. When these items appeared to me in my mind, they appeared each like a bubble. The first bubble (chicken) appeared in the space of my mind, next the second bubble (steak) appeared to the left of it, and then the third bubble (hamburger) appeared, also to the left of the second bubble. It was strange enough that the thoughts were appearing as rounded bubbles that my mind made a note of it. I noticed the space that the three bubble-thoughts appeared in and I also noticed that there was quite a bit of space between "what was looking at the thoughts" and the bubble-thoughts. At the time I didn't think that much about this, but due to the following experience, I have reconsidered and now consider it significant.

I arrived at the store, obtained a shopping cart and walked to the deli section where I placed my order. As I was waiting for my order to be prepared, I was looking around at the baked goods and produce. The oranges and apples started to shine. Then the air looked very clear. As I moved my gaze around the whole place came alive. The colors were amazing, scintilating, sparkling, shiny. I could see every apple, every orange, each tomatoe, everything in perfect detail! It just blew me away. Then I felt like I was dreaming, that this was a dream and that I was going to wake up. Then I got confused and started vascilating between reality and dream-state, not knowing which was which. I felt like I was truly in a dream. I started to get scared. It was like I no longer had a grasp of what was real and what was not. I made a considerable effort to pull out of this state because I knew I had to pick up my order and keep shopping, but not only that, my mind needed to know that I was not dreaming, that it knew what reality was. My mind needed to regain control.

All in all it was a wonderful experience and I've been reflecting on it all day. I'm a little dissapointed with my mind, for trying to regain control and maintain the common state of affairs. It was a magical experience, a satori state that lasted two or three minutes. I hope that in the future, as I experience more and more of these states I will learn to relax into them and convince my mind that they are ok.

If you have had similar experiences, I would love to hear about them.

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 15 2011 12:38:32 AM
Message:

Hi,
Well here is an update.
I am finished reading all the Advaita books now (John Wheeler, Sailor Bob Adamson, Rodney Stevens, Steven Wingate...) and although I spent many months performing meditations of 'focusing on the feeling of "I AM"', the last book I've read from Nisargadatta has made me change my practices. And although it has been very peaceful and still, meditating on the feeling and knowledge of being, and this has produced more satori moments, I find I am more drawn to practices which cause physical effects..

In one of Nisargadatta's last books, written in 1980 (a year before he passed on), he says this:

quote:

Maharaj: The sum and substance of my teaching is this: Don't be dishonest to your vital breath; worhsip that only, abide in that only, accept it as yourself. And when you worship in this manner, it can lead you anywhere, to any heights -- this is the quintessence of my talks.
Presently, you are to be identified with the vital breath. Then you will realize, like the sweetness in sugar cane, that this touch of "I-am-ness," which is dewlling in the vital breath, will open up. So understand these words, this advice. Assimilate it, and so long as the vital breath is flowing through you, abide in that. if the vital breath is there, you are there and so is Ishwara.
In such simplified fashion, nobody has expounded this profound knowledge.
15 July 1980.


What exactly is the vital breath?

quote:

If you are stabilized in the vital breath as "I am", that in itself will get you there. The vital breath is not confined to the body. All the elements are moved, operated by the vital breath. But because it is inside the body, you call it prana, vital breath. This vital breath itself is a vital energy. And the qualitative principle is the Knowingness that is in the vital force.



I've added bhastrika back to my routine. I find it interesting that most of the time during bhastrika, I can see what appears to be a disc of pale white light a few inches behind the brow. That, and the phenomenon that both nostrils clear right up and a heat is produced in my left nostril, makes me believe that bhastrika is a very powerful pranayama practice.

I've also added Spinal Breathing back to my routine.

I've also been studying pranayama from Sri Swami Sivananda at this link:
http://www.dlshq.org/download/pranayama.pdf

I've also started to incorporate kumbhaka at the end of my bhastrika. I also have a theory that internal kumbhaka stores prana and external kumbhaka stores apana. In order to get heat, you have to mix the two (hence the bandhas). I've been toasty hot on more than once occasion recently.

Another practice I've been experimenting with is the placing of consciousness into each chakra while using the mantra "AUM NAMAH SHIVAYA" as per these instructions:
http://www.hardlight.org/om_namah_shivaya.html
quote:

As you repeat the mantra, be aware of the placement of the syllables. Focus on NA at the root, MA at the second seat, SHI at the navel, VA at the heart and YA at the throat.



And the AUM goes to the brow..

I've tried it with breath control and without. For me, probably because I've done years of "I AM" mantra meditation without breath control, it is more powerful for me than trying to coordinate the breath. I've found this practice to be highly ecstatic. I had no idea how ecstatic it could feel by just mantra-ing a syllable into each of the chakras. Probably an active kundalini helps with all that too..

The last few days (after reading about proper "I AM" meditation technique here on this forum) I have tried to do the "I AM" meditation effortlessly and I end up in a clear coloful space far above my head with lots of visions and things to see. It does not bring me to silence. My question is, if awareness is all-encompassing, even if the mind shuts off, you still see things because you are aware. Don't you?

During Spinal Breathing, the AYP Spinal Breathing, towards the end of the short routine, my body dissolves and I find myself in the sushumna with swirling lights and moving energies. Haven't figured out what to do about that yet. I think it is the "Arising and Passing" phase that Daniel Ingram talks about. I don't want to take it too far though because I end up in this vast dark space, and I become a jelly fish of light. I see no point to that, it is kind of boring, just hanging out there in space looking at the distant stars..

I've also been rereading Dhyan Yogi's books. I'm reviewing the chakras, the powers of the chakras (like the ability of the heart chakra to view long-distance), and the fact that he says once your kundalini is active, you will see visions. In one of his books he sites several devotee's experiences and the visions that they saw once they had shaktipat and experienced kriyas.

So there you have it. Still at it, not enlightened, still searching..

Good luck to you.

:)
TI


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jun 15 2011 05:47:02 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Good luck to you.


LOL.

With the dropping of the primary experience 'I am',
all experiences will vanish and only the Absolute remains.

When this concept 'I am' departs,
there will be no memory left that 'I was' and 'I had' those experiences,
the very memory will be erased.


~Nisargadatta Gita
http://www.stillnessspeaks.com/The_...tta_E-Books/

Good luck to you!


Reply author: jeff
Replied on: Jun 15 2011 10:52:20 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice


During Spinal Breathing, the AYP Spinal Breathing, towards the end of the short routine, my body dissolves and I find myself in the sushumna with swirling lights and moving energies. Haven't figured out what to do about that yet. I think it is the "Arising and Passing" phase that Daniel Ingram talks about. I don't want to take it too far though because I end up in this vast dark space, and I become a jelly fish of light. I see no point to that, it is kind of boring, just hanging out there in space looking at the distant stars..



Thank you for sharing. Hanging out can also be fun, but I can understand your desire to do something.

Since you enjoy energy practices, consider trying to "feel" the energy while doing normal daily activities sometime. Maybe while going for a walk (or even reading AYP posts). Meditation is also a way of life.

Peace & Love.


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 16 2011 12:35:53 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by manigma

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Good luck to you.


LOL.

With the dropping of the primary experience 'I am',
all experiences will vanish and only the Absolute remains.

When this concept 'I am' departs,
there will be no memory left that 'I was' and 'I had' those experiences,
the very memory will be erased.


~Nisargadatta Gita
http://www.stillnessspeaks.com/The_...tta_E-Books/

Good luck to you!




Hi Manigma, :)
You know, Nisargadatta sure did say many things. I thought that what he wrote right before he passed on would somehow be more relevant.

So, when the "I am" departs, according to his writings as I quoted above, the vital breath leaves. Reminds me of Nirvikalpa Samadhi.

However, I am unclear about his last statement that you quoted. Does he mean that "the very memory will be erased" permanently? I don't know of one 'enlightened' teacher/guru who has permanently forgotten his past history or accumulation of experiences.. so it must not be that. He must be saying that while in Nirvikalpa Samadhi there is no memory.

It's an enigma, Manigma!

:)
Ti

Did you know that AYAM is MAYA spelled backwards! Or maybe it's the other way around.. :)


Reply author: maheswari
Replied on: Jun 16 2011 02:05:51 AM
Message:

whether in Nirvikalpa Samadhi or any kind of samadhi....there is no doer...therefore how can there be any memory? each moment is completely fresh.
handling this may not be easy...some enlightened people "without memory" pass through phases were they are so unaware of themselves or the surroundings that they can not take care of themselves at all (Lakshmana Swamy and Saradamma passed through those stages)
then slowly the enlightened is able to be functional in the world....
but in all cases there no memory...the self never existed how could it have memory?


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jun 16 2011 05:50:52 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
However, I am unclear about his last statement that you quoted. Does he mean that "the very memory will be erased" permanently? I don't know of one 'enlightened' teacher/guru who has permanently forgotten his past history or accumulation of experiences.. so it must not be that. He must be saying that while in Nirvikalpa Samadhi there is no memory.

As you know, computers have a memory called RAM (Random Access Memory). Unlike 'Hard Drives', anything stored in this volatile memory is erased when the computer is restarted or shut down.

When a person goes into Deep Sleep, or Savikalpa Samadhi, its in a state similar to a computer's 'Standby' or Hibernation' mode. The RAM data is not erased in this state.

When a person dies... its like the computer being reset and anything stored in its RAM is erased.

But when someone achieves Nirvikalpa or Sahaja Samadhi... its 'Super Death', its like death and the RAM is also erased, but yet something is left behind who has an image of RAM kept safe. The Hard Drive... The Mind! or Universal Mind to be precise.

If you know about the Matter - 'Anti-Matter' phenomenon, you will understand this even more better.

What happens during Nirvikalpa or Sahaja Samadhi (Super Death) can never be explained. Because there is no one left to explain. 'I am' departs.

Whatever you hear from Nisargadatta or any Buddha then is being said by the Mind... or Pure Mind (Buddha Mind)!!! They are like newborn babies... utterly pure... or what I like to call Anti-Nisargadatta, Anti-Ramana.

They can never say that 'We saw' or 'We had' those experiences. Because the Pure Mind never has or had any experience. It just is.

Om Mani Padme Hum.


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 25 2011 11:06:10 PM
Message:

Hi Maheswari and Manigma, :)
I'm having a hard time with the idea that all memory is erased. After reflecting on this for a week or so, I must admit that I have never heard of the examples that you've both listed. I've never heard that nirvikalpa samadhi causes permenent memory loss and I have read several writings by practitioners who claim they've experienced Nirvikalpa Samadhi but they did not indicate or act like they had lost their memories. The only rational argument that I can think of that might support such a claim is perhaps, after becoming one with the infinte source, one knows everything, therefore memory is redundant and not needed.

I will have to look into this some more. Thanks. :)

Maheswari, I don't buy the "...the self never existed how could it have memory?". statement. If the self never existed, then what is karma if not some form of memory? To me, this statement is so metaphysically high that it is disjoint from physical reality. For me, that is one of the problems of most Advaitist teachings. They start on the top of the mountain and look back down. For those of us still caught up in the play of life at the bottom, it is meaningless... Even the Buddhists claim that we each have an indestructible drop in the center of the heart which carries forward memories and karma.. Are you saying that this indestructible drop never existed? Sounds like Nisargadatta saying "there are no other persons".

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 25 2011 11:34:48 PM
Message:

Hi,
Time for an update.
I'm all over the place lately with my practices.
I do breath meditation and my body becomes a vaporous cloud of heat and mild ecstatic conductivity. Not just localized in a few areas, but the whole body and beyond it.

I try TM meditation for a few days and focus on the effortlessness and it seems to render my mind into a zombie for the next few days.

For my last two meditations, I've just been doing Sambhavi, tongue on upper back palate and focusing on the third eye. When I do that my body performs the root lock automatically and I experience a continuous wave of ecstatic conductivity which lasts and lasts like the Energizer Bunny.

Now I've gone back to reading "Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond" by Ajahn Brahm and I'm stuck on the "Beautiful Breath". Ajahn is saying that the only way to easily still the mind is to produce some feeling that feels good, which is what eventually happens if you can follow the breath continuously for up to 200 cycles. Eventually breathing is supposed to feel really good. This feeling causes the mind to focus and become still. I'm thinking that the ecstatic feelings that are produced during sambhavi may well do the same thing except that it is hard to relax in that state because it feels like there is allot of tension while the sensations are occuring. Perhaps a combination of feelings and letting go will do it? And then, do what?

Oh, I've also been re-reading "The Secrets of Wilder", about the technique of that "i am" meditation to see if it resembles the instructions in the "Deep Meditation" book. While I realize that the tSOW is fiction, it seems that the finer and finer stages of the "i am" was being used to expand inner silence.. However, correct me if I am wrong, but the "i am" in John's case was actually shaktipatted to him by Christi so it seems that that is where the power of the that mantra came from for him.

The thing that I'm interested in is whether or not eventually John Wilder added sambhavi to his meditations.. from what I recall I think he did.. still reading to confirm...


:)
TI


Reply author: maheswari
Replied on: Jun 26 2011 05:11:34 AM
Message:

dear TI
true it is difficult to explain...will try to make as simple as possible

as u said we reflect over it ie we use the mind...whereas the enlightened has no mind...
it is not memeory loss like some sort of disease...it is that every moment is 100 percent new...

i disagree with you because some enlightened persons have very 'weird" behavior...they act in a very weird way...especially that the period after enlightenment one may feel totally unable to do anything cause one is so much Self absorbed...i will give a recent exmaple...look at the life of Echkart Tolle right after his enlightenemnt...at that stage one may choose to drop the body...because the goal is reached what is the use of the body anymore?

or the enlgihtened -with time -might be able to be more in control and lead a normal life
so we observe the enlightened person from our point of view and we think that they behave like they have a memory...but in fact the Self is acting through him...all is spontaneous..
.
the self ie the jiva never existed...an analogy would be: the river when reaches the ocean is no longer a river..it looses its individuality....the river existence was a relative truth not an absolute permanent truth...
.
what about karma then?
karma also is a relative concept....it is true when one still consider oneself to be the jiva self....but once you realize you are the Self..ie you lost your wrong sense of being a separate entity...then come what may come you dont care cause "you" are not....
.
as for Advaitist looking down...a true vedantin will never look down on anybody...Ramana Maharshi for instance would give each devotee according to what the devotee can take...it is a gradual process...
.
as for the quote by Nisargadatta ...true there are no other persons...all rivers will become the ocean...gold only IS whether in the form of a bracelet or a ring....
.
just take it easy ...dont think about it too much..just keep on enquiring 'who am I"....
.
Love


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jun 26 2011 06:07:25 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
I'm having a hard time with the idea that all memory is erased.

What is memory?

- When you see a friend... you feel happy and exclaim "Hey Man! How you doin? Long time no see" etc.

- When you meet (or remember) a person (friend or foe)... you feel happy or angry.

- When its too cold or too hot for the body... you feel annoyed as the body feels discomfortable.

- When you see a beautiful person (girl or boy)... you say "Wow! so hot, Look at that.." etc..

There are a thousand things in this world that you keep reacting to (non-stop) in your waking and dreaming states. It is your MEMORY that is responsible for all these automatic action/reactions.

Now take a look at this:

Buddha
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3168...531d1b34.jpg

Do you think this man would react like above?

Well obviously its a statue but this statue belongs to a live person.

Look at it... he is a symbol of Sahaja Samadhi! This man is so aware and delighted in its own being that no unaware automatic reaction is possible through him. This man is in a realm beyond cognition... beyond body/memory consciousness.

I am sure that you have not discovered Samadhi (or Inner Silence) yet. Not even Savikalapa Samadhi:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savikalpa

The day you taste Samadhi (Inner Silence)... you will understand what Nisargdatta meant by "the very memory will be erased". Not before.

Memory is an extension / subordinate of the Universal Mind. Thus it can also be called Individual Mind (or Ego).

Here are few words by Osho (remember what he calls mind here is actually being referred to Individual Mind or what Nisargadatta has called Memory):

The mind is the creation of the society, not a gift of nature. The first thing the psychology of the buddhas will do is to take away this whole junk that you call mind and leave your brain silent, pure, innocent, the way you were born.

It needs simply to be erased. The moment the mind is erased -- and the method is meditation -- you are left with a body which is absolutely beautiful, you are left with a silent brain with no noise. The moment the brain is freed from the mind, the innocence of the brain becomes aware of a new space which we have called the soul.

Once you have found your soul, you have found your home. You have found your love, you have found your inexhaustible ecstasy, you have found that the whole existence is ready for you to dance, to rejoice, to sing -- to live intensely and die blissfully. These things happen on their own accord.

The mind is the barrier between your brain, your body and your soul. So the first and the most basic thing is, the psychology of the buddhas has evolved methods of meditation which are really nothing but surgical methods so that the mind can be removed -- it is the worst cancerous growth in you. Other than the mind, everything is absolutely beautiful. It is because only the mind is man-manufactured; everything else comes from the eternal sources of life.


~ Osho [Om Mani Padme Hum]
http://www.oshoworld.com/e-books/se...search_title

And here is another:

KNOWING ONESELF AS THE INNER WITNESSING SOUL, OF ONE'S INTELLECT AND ALL ITS DISPOSITIONS, AND ACQUIRING THE DISPOSITION THAT "THAT AM I," GIVING UP THE CLAIM OF 'MINE' OVER ALL THINGS.

GIVING UP FOLLOWING THE SOCIETY, HE GIVES UP FOLLOWING THE BODY ALSO. GIVING UP FOLLOWING THE SCRIPTURES, HE GIVES UP THE ILLUSION OF THE SOUL ALSO.

BEING ROOTED IN HIS OWN SOUL, AND THROUGH TECHNIQUES, THROUGH LISTENING AND THROUGH SELF-EXPERIENCING, THE YOGIN COMES TO KNOW HIMSELF AS THE SOUL OF ALL AND HIS MIND IS ANNIHILATED.

WITHOUT GIVING OPPORTUNITY TO SLEEP, TO SOCIETY'S TALKS, TO SOUND, TOUCH, FORM, TASTE, AND SMELL -- THE OBJECTS OF THE SENSES -- AND TO FORGETFULNESS OF THE SOUL, CONTEMPLATE THE SOUL WITHIN YOU.


~ Adhyatama Upanishad
http://www.balbro.com/heart/beat3.htm


Reply author: maheswari
Replied on: Jun 26 2011 07:33:51 AM
Message:

beautiful manigma thank you


Reply author: maheswari
Replied on: Jun 26 2011 4:42:49 PM
Message:

"if from moment to moment your mind dwells on what is and drops it effortlessly at once,the mind
becomes no-mind"(Yoga Vasistha)


Reply author: bewell
Replied on: Jun 26 2011 5:49:16 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
While I realize that the tSOW is fiction, it seems that the finer and finer stages of the "i am" was being used to expand inner silence.. However, correct me if I am wrong, but the "i am" in John's case was actually shaktipatted to him by Christi so it seems that that is where the power of the that mantra came from for him.

The thing that I'm interested in is whether or not eventually John Wilder added sambhavi to his meditations.. from what I recall I think he did.. still reading to confirm...




Hi TI,

About SOW, IYAM and sambavi, what I recall most from that book is the notion of i am embrace, or what is called in the Key Lessons, "Whole Body Mudra:"
http://www.aypsite.org/212.html

In the book (fiction we must recall) everybody who is doing the practices is discovering whole body mudra. Have you read that lesson lately? How does it resonate with you?


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 26 2011 6:08:53 PM
Message:

Hi Maheswari, :)
Thank you for your responses.

quote:

as for Advaitist looking down...a true vedantin will never look down on anybody...Ramana Maharshi for instance would give each devotee according to what the devotee can take...it is a gradual process...



I should mention, I did not say that advaitists look down on people in the derogatory sense of the word. My example was trying to relay the idea that most advaitists take their initial position from the point of view of being on the mountain top. Or in other words, they say things like "There is no you", "You are already enlightened, it just that you don't realize it", "there is nothing to do and nobody who can do it anyway", "You don't exist so how can You be suffering?" etc.

While these statments may be true in the sense of absolute truth (from the point of view of sitting on the pinnacle or summit), to someone who is at the bottom looking up, the words are perplexing and to some, greatly disturbing. Care should be taken to explain that the statement is coming from an absolute truth point of view, and not a relative truth point of view. It is kind of confusing when the words blend both perspectives in the same sentence.

"Yes officer, there is nobody here so how could anyone have been speeding?"
"If I don't exist, why should I have to pay taxes?"

:)

I should also mention, I have great respect for Ramana Maharshi and his teachings. I've never seen him as an Advaitist, espescially in the contemporary westerner camp sense of the word that has seems to be growing larger more recently...


quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
...
i disagree with you because some enlightened persons have very 'weird" behavior...they act in a very weird way...especially that the period after enlightenment one may feel totally unable to do anything cause one is so much Self absorbed...i will give a recent exmaple...look at the life of Echkart Tolle right after his enlightenemnt...at that stage one may choose to drop the body...because the goal is reached what is the use of the body anymore?



Hmmm.. Yes, Tolle did spend a few years after his 'enlightenment' sitting on a park bench, but to my knowledge, he did not permanently lose his memory. Otherwise, how could he, after his enlightenment, recount stories of his early childhood? Also, I do not believe that Tolle permanently lost his mind because he refers to the mind as a tool that is there to be used, but not to be used by it. I have never heard him say that his mind no longer exists.

All is well.

:)
TI


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jun 27 2011 02:16:54 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
While these statments may be true in the sense of absolute truth (from the point of view of sitting on the pinnacle or summit), to someone who is at the bottom looking up, the words are perplexing and to some, greatly disturbing. Care should be taken to explain that the statement is coming from an absolute truth point of view, and not a relative truth point of view. It is kind of confusing when the words blend both perspectives in the same sentence.


LOL. Even Osho has said that:

That's what Krishnamurti is doing; it has been done by many people. Nagarjuna did it: he said, "Everything is false. The world is false, the ego is false, nothing exists. Because nothing exists you are already free. There is no need for any meditation, there is no need for any Master. There is no need to find out any device, strategy, technique, because in the first place there is no problem. Why go on looking for solutions? Those solutions will create more problems; they are not going to help."

Zen says no effort is needed, nothing has to be done. When nothing has to be done, what is the need of a Master?

And I know this is true, but to talk about this ultimate truth to people who are living in tremendous darkness is futile.

No enlightened person can ever be wrong, but only few enlightened persons have been of help. The majority of enlightened people have been of no help at all, for the simple reason because they never considered the other.

In fact, George Gurdjieff used to say, "Don't consider the other." It was one of his basic teachings: "Don't consider the other. Just say what is absolutely true." But the absolute truth is truth only when experienced; people are living in relative truth.

My approach is different from Krishnamurti's. I know that one day you will come to that point where nothing is needed -- no Master, no teaching, no scripture -- but right now the scripture can be of help, the methods can be of help, and certainly a living Master can be of immense help.


~ Osho [I Am That]
http://www.balbro.com/iam

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
"Yes officer, there is nobody here so how could anyone have been speeding?"
"If I don't exist, why should I have to pay taxes?"


LOL. A realised person would never speed up, he is beyond the thrills that one gets by speeding up.

And if someone says things like that to avoid tickets/taxes, it means he is not a realised but just a fool.


Reply author: maheswari
Replied on: Jun 27 2011 02:26:49 AM
Message:

....dear TI...of course the enlightened dont loose his memory...it is not a disease...it is just he stops identifying with it....
"if from moment to moment your mind dwells on what is and drops it effortlessly at once,the mind becomes no-mind"(Yoga Vasistha)
...
check those websites:
http://www.stillnessspeaks.com/teachers/
http://www.commonground.ca/iss/0603...ckhart.shtml
..
much Love


Reply author: jeff
Replied on: Jun 27 2011 12:19:28 PM
Message:

TI,

A slightly different computer analogy for you to consider. Think of memory and mind/ego separately.

Another way to describe it would be to say that the "real you" is directly connected to the bus. The human body has local memory and can only handle limited data off the bus. The mind/ego is like a body "autopilot", exists only in the local memory and tends to just reuse old data for responses. The growth process can be thought of as "you" paying more attention and "shutting down/ignoring" the autopilot. Memory is not erased, but "You" can process directly off the bus in "realtime", which can be overwhelming in the beginning. But If memory is not accessed, the “mind/ego” perceives death, so it works hard to keep the processing in memory... :-)

You mentioned... "I'm thinking that the ecstatic feelings that are produced during sambhavi may well do the same thing except that it is hard to relax in that state because it feels like there is allot of tension while the sensations are occurring."

My guess is that if you are "feeling tension" when you experience the sensations, you are using focused intent to keep them going. Almost forcing it for the energy buzz. Try letting go, more like waves rolling over you. Try not to "hang on" to the feeling. Sometimes it helps to just listen to relaxing music. Don't do anything (no mantra, no SB), just listen...

Peace & Love.


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 27 2011 1:22:03 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by bewell
Hi TI,

About SOW, IYAM and sambavi, what I recall most from that book is the notion of i am embrace, or what is called in the Key Lessons, "Whole Body Mudra:"
http://www.aypsite.org/212.html

In the book (fiction we must recall) everybody who is doing the practices is discovering whole body mudra. Have you read that lesson lately? How does it resonate with you?




Hi Bewell, :)
Thanks for pointing out that lesson. I've just re-read it.
It is very surprising but, I needed to read that lesson, because, that is what I can do now and that is what I'm curious about.

When I do just Sambhavi, I now get a continuous surge of ecstatic conductivity. If I persist, I get waves and pulses from the root going up the body and the energetic/muscular tension increases.
The whole effect intensifies the longer I hold sambhavi to the point where my body starts shaking. It feels quite ecstatic and it also feels like my body is going to explode or dissolve.

But it isn't just 'moving the eyes upward' or 'scrunching the brows' which causes this effect. If I simply feel or put my attention on the area about 1 inch behind the brow and kind of 'suck' inwards, the energetic stimulation occurs. The same effect occurs if I gently inhale through a relaxed face and feel the gentle breeze as it passes by the top of the sinus cavity.

The first time I realized that simply focusing behind the brow caused the root lock to occur automatically, I thought "This is strange". I thought "All I have to do is keep focusing solely on the brow and it controls muscles in the lower body." It really does. I played with this for quite a while. I remember being amazed. Yup, when I focus here, that happens.. That was about three weeks ago. And that lesson (212) confirms it.

So now I am wondering what is going to happen if I do the whole body mudra by just putting my attention on the brow and holding that for longer periods of time.. What is the outcome? Aside from the obvious, that it now seems that I can experience ecstatic conductivity at will, what is the next step? That is what I'm curious about..

The lesson (212) says "That's why we see pictures of the sages with their eyes raised. They are in whole body ecstatic bliss just from that, with divine energy radiating out in all directions."

Is this really divine energy? Feels more like sexual energy, heat, tingles and tension.. it leaves a sunburned feeling on my hands, face, front, sometimes the whole body.

Will the tension in the whole body increase to the point where my whole body is in a mudra? Will I actually quit breathing? - I have wanted to a few times now during one of these sessions. Will the secret breath (inner breath, not sure what to call it) take over if I quit breathing? Will this cause nirvikalpa samadhi?

What is the spiritual significance of such a practice? The idea of radiating divine energy sounds nice, if that is what it is.. Is this the culmination of the ecstatic conductivity experience? Yes, I've read lots about kundalini, about the activation of chakras, siddhis, healing powers. Are these gained by directing the flow of ecstatic conductivity into the chakras, or at someone else's chakras? Most of what I have read about kundalini is that you can't control her. Maybe it is not really true? Perhaps you can control her. How do you explain being able to give shaktipat if you couldn't control her, or at least turn it on and off? Or perhaps you can turn it on and off and direct to flow?

I know that I've read that, according to Yogani, enlightenment is the merging of ecstatic conductivity into inner silence. That is the final step, I'm interested in what happens in between now and then.

I feel like I have found the switch to ecstatic conductivity and somebody has turned the power on.

I would love to read more about what comes after the full body mudra.

Once again, thanks for the link bewell..


:)
TI

(I have written many questions in this post, I'm not expecting you to answer these questions, I'm just kind of throwing them out there.)


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jun 28 2011 03:00:29 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
When I do just Sambhavi, I now get a continuous surge of ecstatic conductivity. If I persist, I get waves and pulses from the root going up the body and the energetic/muscular tension increases.


Try switching to YMK (Yoni Mudra Kumbhaka or Kevala Kumbhaka) immediately after this happens.

Personally and seriously, I feel you are spiritually raping yourself. And I feel you kind of enjoy it too. Like a scientist opening a rose bud forcefully and analysing how it grows and becomes a Flower.

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Will this cause nirvikalpa samadhi?


That was quick.


Reply author: bewell
Replied on: Jun 28 2011 05:18:36 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

quote:
Originally posted by bewell
i am embrace, or what is called in the Key Lessons, "Whole Body Mudra:"
http://www.aypsite.org/212.html




I needed to read that lesson, because, that is what I can do now and that is what I'm curious about.

The first time I realized that simply focusing behind the brow caused the root lock to occur automatically, I thought "This is strange". I thought "All I have to do is keep focusing solely on the brow and it controls muscles in the lower body." It really does. I played with this for quite a while. I remember being amazed. Yup, when I focus here, that happens.. That was about three weeks ago. And that lesson (212) confirms it.




TI

What a wonderful exchange this has been! I get a sense of Ah, this is what the AYP support forum is for: supporting one another in reading the lessons and relating that to where we are now in our experiences and practices. I to re-read 212 and found it very beneficial. I too am experiencing full body mudra.

FBM is spontaneous response of the neurobiology to the full range of practices. It is the vibration of IYAM. It is the flowering of SBP. It is enhanced currently in my path, by the introduction of chin pump prior to DM. It leads smoothly into samyama, and into self-inquiry samyama. It lingers throughout the day and night, waxing and waning, but always to some extent there. It is the nexus where pure bliss consciousness meets ecstatic conductivity in a most balanced way.

Peace,

Be


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 28 2011 10:40:35 PM
Message:

Hi Manigma,
Previously you quoted Nisargadatta saying:

quote:

With the dropping of the primary experience 'I am',
all experiences will vanish and only the Absolute remains.

When this concept 'I am' departs,
there will be no memory left that 'I was' and 'I had' those experiences,
the very memory will be erased.

~Nisargadatta Gita
http://www.stillnessspeaks.com/The_...tta_E-Books/



You took this quote out of context and then jumped into an attempt to prove that memory is erased after samadhi. Again, I have to disagree with that. While I have heard of people losing their identity and memory due to kundalini blowouts, I have never heard of anyone losing their memory due to any kind of samadhi.

Perhaps what I should have said that I am having a hard time with the idea that all memory is permanently erased. So I concluded that Nisargadatta must have been talking about nirvikalpa samadhi.

But guess what? He wasn't talking about samadhi at all. He was talking about death.
Here is that same sentence you quoted but within the context, and with an explanatory text from Pradeep Apte
link: http://www.stillnessspeaks.com/imag...a%20Gita.pdf
quote:

33. When this concept ‘I am’ departs
there will be no memory left that ‘I was’
and ‘I had’ those experiences, the very
memory will be erased.
The knowledge ‘I am’ is the very seed of memory
and all information functions through it, it forms
the basis of the mind. It is bound to tire out and
hence there is sleep, otherwise you would die if you
didn’t sleep. But sleep is not the complete
departure of the ‘I am’ it’s only held in abeyance
and after sleep it gets refreshed and starts its
activity again maintaining the continuity. No
wonder if your name is called aloud in sleep you
wake up and respond saying ‘that’s me’! Physical
death is the total departure of the ‘I am’ and
nothing is retained. For the ‘Realized One’ who
has transcended the ‘I am’, memory and the ‘I am’
are available to him, he may or may not use them,
they are not ‘lodged’ in him anymore.
Only the
‘Realized One’ can understand this state.



Now if you read that part carefully, he is not even saying that the memory is permanently erased! He is saying that "memory and the 'I am' are available to him, he may or may not use them".

So this has nothing to do with samadhi, nirvikalpa or otherwise.
But still, I've heard of many people who were clinically dead and who came back but did not lose their memories. And being clinically dead is very similar to nirvikalpa samadhi.

I know Nisargadatta did not believe in reincarnation.
from "I AM THAT":
quote:

Q: Yet, you must believe in having lived before.
M: The scriptures say so, but I know nothing about it. I know myself as I am; as I appeared or will appear is not within my experience. It is not that I do not remember. In fact there is nothing to remember. Reincarnation implies a reincarnating self. There is no such thing. The bundle of memories and hopes, called the 'I', imagines itself existing everlastingly and creates time to accommodate its false eternity: To be, I need no past or future. All experience is born of imagination; I do not imagine, so no birth or death happens to me. Only those who think themselves born can think themselves re-born. You are accusing me of having been born -- I plead not guilty!



Yet many budhhist doctrines state that reincarnation is a fact along with the indestructible drop in the heart. So this is one more place where Nisargadatta parts ways with conventionally accepted budhhist philosophy (at least in the east).

I have a problem with this next statement of yours:
quote:

I am sure that you have not discovered Samadhi (or Inner Silence) yet. Not even Savikalapa Samadhi:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savikalpa

The day you taste Samadhi (Inner Silence)... you will understand what Nisargdatta meant by "the very memory will be erased". Not before.


You can't really be saying that Inner Silence will permanently erase your memory afterwards.. Are you? I think you have lept to inaccurate conclusions and are now propagating them through this forum.

And I have to ask, exactly who are you that you can assess the spiritual accomplishments or lack of in another person? I think you are overstepping your bounds here.. You don't know me at all nor what I have experienced.

In another post to me you say
quote:

Try switching to YMK (Yoni Mudra Kumbhaka or Kevala Kumbhaka) immediately after this happens.


Why would I switch to a different practice at that point? It seems that sambhavi alone is producing the unfolding, the whole body mudra without any effort at all (except focusing on the third eye.)
quote:


Personally and seriously, I feel you are spiritually raping yourself. And I feel you kind of enjoy it too. Like a scientist opening a rose bud forcefully and analysing how it grows and becomes a Flower.



There you go again. Commenting on my intentions and practices. I'm not really interested in your assessment of my practices. I would much rather hear about how you personally are progressing. Have you reached samadhi yet? Have you seen the star or any nimittas? Do you have any ecstatic conductivity flowing yet?

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 28 2011 11:44:46 PM
Message:

Hi Jeff, :)

quote:
Originally posted by jeff

TI,

A slightly different computer analogy for you to consider. Think of memory and mind/ego separately.

Another way to describe it would be to say that the "real you" is directly connected to the bus. The human body has local memory and can only handle limited data off the bus. The mind/ego is like a body "autopilot", exists only in the local memory and tends to just reuse old data for responses. The growth process can be thought of as "you" paying more attention and "shutting down/ignoring" the autopilot. Memory is not erased, but "You" can process directly off the bus in "realtime", which can be overwhelming in the beginning. But If memory is not accessed, the “mind/ego” perceives death, so it works hard to keep the processing in memory... :-)


Gee, I didn't that that I needed lessons in meditation with reference to the functions of memory. I'm well aware of the role of memory in meditation, how, if you are remembering something you are not fully present, how the mind stands in the way of stillness or the beyond, how the mind couldn't function without memory (and language and culture). I've also hit a few states where the mind becomes something like a super mind, where the difficult 50 word mantra that I have became a piece of cake, where it glided past efforlessly, the words glowed, there was no effort whatsoever trying to remember the mantra. The superconscious mind has superconscious memory!

And, I have to disagree with you... when you say that "If memory is not accessed, the “mind/ego” perceives death." If memory is not accessed, you are in the present moment, or silent or still. Or you are awestruck by some event. It is easy to shut off the memory. Just do some gazing, or look at a thing of beauty. Or, just bring your attention totally into the now. It kind of makes me wonder though, how a person could do mantra repetition without memory fully functioning.. Perhaps that's why breath meditation is used as there is no effort in remembering to breathe.

On a deeper level though, what about the idea that the play is already written and we are just going through the motions. What about akashic records, where everything is already written down, future included? Something to think about.

And here is a concept that I've learned from Ajahn Brahm (Buddhist monk and Author of "Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond"). The idea is that the mind loves to focus on things that bring pleasure. He says that the mind will easily become very still when it perceives something that brings it pleasure (like becoming aware of the beautiful breath, during breath meditation). It is when the mind is not satisfied that it wants to wander.

Which brings me to your next comment..
Ecstatic conductivity is a form of pleasure to the mind! It should help still the mind. It certainly helps focus the mind. :)

quote:

You mentioned... "I'm thinking that the ecstatic feelings that are produced during sambhavi may well do the same thing except that it is hard to relax in that state because it feels like there is allot of tension while the sensations are occurring."

My guess is that if you are "feeling tension" when you experience the sensations, you are using focused intent to keep them going. Almost forcing it for the energy buzz. Try letting go, more like waves rolling over you. Try not to "hang on" to the feeling.


The tension that I am feeling is because the muscles are tightening up and moving on their own. I am not focusing on any intent to keep them going, the only effort is to keep the attention on the third eye and to quit being distracted by the sensations. The muscles tightening up, the ecstatic conductivity flow, the build of energy are all by-products. I know the difference between when I am performing mudras/bandhas and when the body is acting on its own.
It is like finding this little spot behind the brow that you press and the puppet starts to perform.

I've experienced the "waves rolling over you" very many times. I'm more interested in trying to penetrate the light behind the third eye.

However, I think it is good advice not to "hang on" to the feeling because if you are hanging on to the feeling you are not focusing on the third eye.

When I say that there is more tension, I am comparing it the state where I am sitting out in space, a jelly fish of light, with nothing but empty space and the faint twinkle of far away stars. To me, that state has very little tension..

Thanks for your comments.

:)
TI


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jun 29 2011 03:09:24 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Now if you read that part carefully, he is not even saying that the memory is permanently erased! He is saying that "memory and the 'I am' are available to him, he may or may not use them".


Well that's what Pradeep Apte has said, not Nisargadatta . Nisargadatta's words are clear "the very memory will be erased". I have already explained my understanding (based on my own experience and the words of Nisargadatta) in the above posts.

Its complicated to understand if you have never experienced Samadhi (Inner Silence), but very easy if you have experienced Samdahi even once.

A fish who has always lived inside the ocean can never understand the ocean completely unless it comes out from it.

quote:

I know Nisargadatta did not believe in reincarnation.

Yet many budhhist doctrines state that reincarnation is a fact along with the indestructible drop in the heart. So this is one more place where Nisargadatta parts ways with conventionally accepted budhhist philosophy (at least in the east).


Both Nisargadatta and Buddhists are perfectly correct. Again, you can not understand them through mind. Go beyond.

quote:

And I have to ask, exactly who are you that you can assess the spiritual accomplishments or lack of in another person? I think you are overstepping your bounds here.. You don't know me at all nor what I have experienced.


All I can say is I know you as much as you know yourself.

quote:

Why would I switch to a different practice at that point? It seems that sambhavi alone is producing the unfolding, the whole body mudra without any effort at all (except focusing on the third eye.)


"Is this really divine energy? Feels more like sexual energy, heat, tingles and tension.. it leaves a sunburned feeling on my hands, face, front, sometimes the whole body."

quote:

I'm not really interested in your assessment of my practices. I would much rather hear about how you personally are progressing. Have you reached samadhi yet? Have you seen the star or any nimittas? Do you have any ecstatic conductivity flowing yet?


http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=6345


Reply author: maheswari
Replied on: Jun 29 2011 09:15:59 AM
Message:

nice thread manig....and good for you
your posts always clearly show your milestones


Reply author: jeff
Replied on: Jun 29 2011 10:37:08 AM
Message:

TI,

I wasn't trying to give you a memory lesson. I was basically agreeing with you that "memory is not erased" and trying to modify the analogy that others were using to describe it. A better analogy is to say that everything is an object in RAM. Unlimited global store.

You stated "And, I have to disagree with you... when you say that "If memory is not accessed, the “mind/ego” perceives death." If memory is not accessed, you are in the present moment, or silent or still. Or you are awestruck by some event. It is easy to shut off the memory. Just do some gazing, or look at a thing of beauty. Or, just bring your attention totally into the now. " I agree with you on this point. I was describing the mind/ego perspective in the context of "enlightenment". Context & perception can be different, depending whether you are viewing it from a state of mind/ego or witness/Self.

You raise an interesting question on free will. We each, I am sure, have our own answer. On the "akashic records", it becomes less interesting than you think, since it has all possible outcomes (in all dimensions). How do you know you are picking correctly and not just desiring that answer.

I also agree that the mind pursues "pleasure" and because of it many people find it easier to meditate focusing on the energy. As I am sure you know, the energy flow helps "vibrate loose" obstructions. As the energy has grown, have you noticed an overall drop in desire or anger? Increased sense of peace? Lots of tension can imply that you are "holding on" to the issues/obstructions/emotions.

I have appreciated your posts because I have shared many of the "energetic" feelings, but why the focus on the third eye? Why not the crown? Or full integration of all the chakras?

Peace & Love.


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 30 2011 12:06:13 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by manigma

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Now if you read that part carefully, he is not even saying that the memory is permanently erased! He is saying that "memory and the 'I am' are available to him, he may or may not use them".


Well that's what Pradeep Apte has said, not Nisargadatta . Nisargadatta's words are clear "the very memory will be erased". I have already explained my understanding (based on my own experience and the words of Nisargadatta) in the above posts.



Hi Manigma,
I think Pradeep Apte interpretted Nisargadatta correctly, as one must do because Nisargadatta will say just about anything depending on his audience and age.
For example, here is evidence that after Nisargadatta's 'enlightenment', he still had a memory.
From "I AM THAT" (In Nisargadatta's own words..) :
quote:

Q: Were you always like this from the first moment of enlightenment?
M: The three states rotate as usual -- there is waking and sleeping and waking again, but they do not happen to me. They just happen. To me nothing ever happens. There is something changeless, motionless, immovable, rocklike, unassailable; a solid mass of pure being-consciousness-bliss. I am never out of it. Nothing can take me out of it, no torture, no calamity.
Q: Yet, you are conscious!
M: Yes and no. There is peace -- deep, immense, unshakeable. Events are registered in memory, but are of no importance. I am hardly aware of them.



Here is another quote from the same book:
quote:

Q: I understand that, according to you, everything is a state of consciousness. The world is full of things -- a grain of sand is a thing, a planet is a thing. How are they related to consciousness?
M: Where consciousness does not reach, matter begins. A thing is a form of being which we have not understood. It does not change -- it is always the same -- it appears to be there on its own -- something strange and alien. Of course it is in the chit, consciousness, but appears to be outside because of its apparent changelessness. The foundation of things is in memory -- without memory there would be no recognition. Creation -- reflection -- rejection: Brahma -- Vishnu -- Shiva: this is the eternal process. All things are governed by it.


Here is more about memory, which Nisargadatta says that he continually erases:
quote:

Q: You cannot be aware, yet unaffected. There is a contradiction in terms. Perception is change. Once you have experienced a sensation, memory will not allow you to return to the former state.
M: Yes, what is added to memory cannot be erased easily. But it can surely be done and, in fact, I am doing it all the time. Like a bird on its wings, I leave no footprints.



Here is another quote, a very intersting one because Nisargadatta says that there is no way to put an end to memory.
quote:

Q: What is the cause of desire and fear?
M: Obviously, the memory of past pains and pleasures. There is no great mystery about it. Conflict arises only when desire and fear refer to the same object.
Q: How to put an end to memory?
M: It is neither necessary, nor possible. realise that all happens in consciousness and you are the root, the source, the foundation of consciousness. The world is but a succession of experiences and you are what makes them conscious, and yet remain beyond all experience. It is like the heat, the flame and the burning wood. The heat maintains the flame, the flame consumes the wood. Without heat there would be neither flame nor fuel. Similarly, without awareness there would be no consciousness, nor life, which transforms matter into a vehicle of consciousness.




more:
quote:

Q: I can make out that the cause of anxiety and fear is memory. What are the means for putting an end to memory?
M: Don’t talk of means, there are no means. What you see as false, dissolves. It is the very nature of illusion to dissolve on investigation. Investigate -- that is all. You cannot destroy the false, for you are creating it all the time. Withdraw from it, ignore it, go beyond, and it will cease to be.



And here is a quote that is saying that even death does not break the continuity of memory:
quote:

Q: I am fully aware that my fear of death is due to apprehension and not knowledge.
M: Human beings die every second, the fear and the agony of dying hangs over the world like a cloud. No wonder you too are afraid. But once you know that the body alone dies and not the continuity of memory and the sense of ‘I am’ reflected in it, you are afraid no longer.


Amazing, sounds like Nisargadatta is presenting a case for reincarnation here: the continuity of memory.. but I have seen no other statements that memory is permanently erased.

quote:
You said
All I can say is I know you as much as you know yourself.


So, I have to ask, if you know me as I know myself, why do you even question whether or not this is "divine energy"? Surely you would know the answer. Why do you ask me questions or pose derogatory remarks at all? Hmm?

Oh, thanks for the link to your experiences back in 2009. Do you have anything more recent?

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jun 30 2011 12:59:30 AM
Message:

Hi Jeff :)

quote:
Originally posted by jeff

You raise an interesting question on free will. We each, I am sure, have our own answer. On the "akashic records", it becomes less interesting than you think, since it has all possible outcomes (in all dimensions). How do you know you are picking correctly and not just desiring that answer.


You know, that is an interesting idea which is expounded in Matrix Energetics/Richard Bartlett. All possible outcomes are occuring simultaneously and if you focus your intent and drop down into the heart space and release it, they say that you can choose a different outcome producing miraculous results. Interesting stuff but really hard for the mind to believe. I read somewhere else where a yogi once said that the heart contains a wishing well that, once you discover it, will grant anything you desire. (Feels like I'm off in fairy land again.. :)

quote:

I have appreciated your posts because I have shared many of the "energetic" feelings, but why the focus on the third eye? Why not the crown? Or full integration of all the chakras?



I find the third eye interesting for a number of reasons: I can see things through it, it feels good, it seems to be a switch that controls parts of the body (or maybe all of the body) and all of the chakras too. I've heard that you can pull each chakra up into the third eye and look at them. I have seen people through the third eye appearing as flames emanating from their midsection, some black and red, others like rainbows. I have driven my car with my eyes closed while looking through the third eye. These 'tricks' were fun at the time but are kind of hard on the mind. The mind keeps pulling you back down saying "you are crazy", "you are deluded and just imagining all this" etc.. And then, how do you find anybody to talk about it with? Also, the third eye is the junction between ida, pingala and the sushumna. If I focus there, suck inwards and pretend to be falling asleep, not only do I get the ecstatic conductivity, visions, lights, energy flows, but you discover that there is a tunnel that goes from the third eye to the heart. If I go too far down in that tunnel towards the heart, it makes me blackout and feel like I'm about to die. I haven't explored that fully yet. Once I did and when I came out I almost threw up and felt like my astral/etheric body was completely dissociated from my physical body. Might have had too much food in my system or I'm still too coarse and blocked..

The crown is interesting, it contains many clear colorful planes, and beings all watching us/me. But it still kind of bothers me and makes me uncomfortable. It is very fast up there, you have to increase your vibrations and speed quite a bit to keep up to the thoughts and images that go whizzing by and it is not that easy to maintain that perspective. The most I do to the crown is to bring the white light down from the star that is up there and sometimes follow the fork up the sushumna to it and back down during spinal breathing. But I don't do that very often ever since doing that once for 1/2 an hour totally zombied me out for about a week and, well I need my brain to work.

And, there is allot of caution about premature crown opening on this site, and I can see why. Sanity is a precious thing when you have to work, make a living and live amongst people.

The heart chakra is quite a magical chakra. It not only can cause distance viewing with great clarity, but it also shines into various planes complete with beings and landscapes.. Just, the heart is a little touchy and can blow out a bunch of hidden emotions out at you if you spend too long with it.. Also, heart orgasms are really intense, but I'm not really looking for more sensuous stimulation for it's own sake. I know, I should probably spend more time on the heart chakra.. :(

I do practice full integration of the chakras with spinal breathing, bhastrika and "AUM NAMA SHIVAYA"'ing the separate sylables into each chakra (except the crown) every now and then. Whenever I "AUM" I can now see a white moon in the third eye about 1 inch behind the brow. I think it is true that if you place your consciousness in a chakra along with projecting some kind of vibration, be it a Bija seed or sound or something that activates the chi stream from the lower tan tien, it will activate them and give you more understanding and control over them.

I probably talk too much. Sorry.. Nice talking to you.

:)
TI


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jun 30 2011 03:42:52 AM
Message:

'I am That' is one of my favorite books.

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
So, I have to ask, if you know me as I know myself, why do you even question whether or not this is "divine energy"? Surely you would know the answer. Why do you ask me questions or pose derogatory remarks at all? Hmm?


I did not ask you any questions. Those were your own words.
quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
The lesson (212) says "That's why we see pictures of the sages with their eyes raised. They are in whole body ecstatic bliss just from that, with divine energy radiating out in all directions."

Is this really divine energy? Feels more like sexual energy, heat, tingles and tension.. it leaves a sunburned feeling on my hands, face, front, sometimes the whole body.


And this is why I suggested you to add YMK (Yoni Mudra Kumbhaka or Kevala Kumbhaka).
quote:

Oh, thanks for the link to your experiences back in 2009. Do you have anything more recent?


If you are interested in reading experiences, perhaps you can google Skoogle Kundalini Experiences. He maintained a good record of his expereiences like you do here on AYP:

http://kundalini-experiences.blogsp...er-2009.html

Tell me one thing T_I... Have you ever had a moment when you completely forgot who you were, who is Buddha, Nisargadatta, AYP, manigma, Meditation, Enlightenment, Jelly fish, Stars, Nimittas, Languages, Mantras, Chakras.... everything, just everything.

Like everything has been erased.


Reply author: jeff
Replied on: Jun 30 2011 10:53:19 AM
Message:

TI,

Thank you for sharing your insights and perspective on the chakras. It is interesting to have an "under the covers" dualistic discussion. You have obviously spent more time focusing on the individual chakras than I have.

I did spend some time directing energy to grow specific chakras, but found it just unbalanced or overloaded me. After that, I just started letting it flow. Also, have you tried "creating" the energy directly in the chakra?

In my experience, after a while the third eye and crown begin to merge into one integrated chakra. After that, all of the chakras start to merge into kind of a "full body blob" chakra. Then you lose the chakra sense completely and it evolves to almost like vibrations on an individual cellular level. Others have described it to me as like all of your molecules vibrating together, but to me it almost feels like "heading to evaporation". Exercises like SBP basically light up everything, very little differentiation.

I am also interested in your desire to explore the chakras. Early on, I did some "experiments" with powers, but found I really didn't have any interest in it. Never felt the need, which in some ways was surprising to me, since I grew up loving comic book super heros. Are you looking for "powers" or just exploring?

Thanks again for sharing.

Peace & Love.


Reply author: maheswari
Replied on: Jun 30 2011 1:22:26 PM
Message:

manigma you reminded me of an english music band from the 80's called Erasure...i never like them...but now at least i like the name


Reply author: maheswari
Replied on: Jun 30 2011 3:34:31 PM
Message:

"Tell me one thing T_I... Have you ever had a moment when you completely forgot who you were, who is Buddha, Nisargadatta, AYP, manigma, Meditation, Enlightenment, Jelly fish, Stars, Nimittas, Languages, Mantras, Chakras.... everything, just everything.

Like everything has been erased."
........
deep sleep which seems a handy substitute for Turiya


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 01 2011 12:19:15 AM
Message:

Hi Manigma,
Thanks for the link but I am more interested on whether or not you have reconciled your free style meditation/kriyas and have adopted some kind of regular routine. Have you hit any samadhis or jhanas recently?

quote:
Originally posted by manigma
Tell me one thing T_I... Have you ever had a moment when you completely forgot who you were, who is Buddha, Nisargadatta, AYP, manigma, Meditation, Enlightenment, Jelly fish, Stars, Nimittas, Languages, Mantras, Chakras.... everything, just everything.

Like everything has been erased.




Yes, often. When I started doing a meditation of "looking back at who was watching", I would find myself lying in bed in the morning, with absolutely no thoughts/visions in my head and only the feeling or awareness that I existed. Then, if something pulled me out of that state, like the alarm going off or some exterior noise, I would watch myself being created along with the world. Sometimes in that state my mind would start up and I could clearly see a formation of thoughts appear like a little school of fish in a big pond. Sometimes, just laying there, I would be watching my mind churning away with no mental comment.

I've had several nights where I've watched my body sleep, continuous awareness 24/7. That is hard to get used to.. :)

I've also had a meditation when I successfully sustained relaxed attention on the visualization of the letter "I" in the mantra of "I am" and my body and everything just disappeared. I was left in a state where there was no motion, like being solid and the vision of "I" radiated a glorius golden light. Everything stopped. There was tremendous bliss and joy. It was so blissful that it just blew me away.

I've also done a meditation where you listen to both eeee sounds in the ears, balance them by relaxing and then focus on the middle where they join in the cave of brahman. The successful result of that was that I disappeared into a black hole where there was no consciousness. When I returned, I saw an outline of my body in golden yellow light appear for a brief second before I was back in the body. I believe that was an episode of savikalpa samadhi.

A long time ago, when I was 16 yrs old, I used to do a 'levitation meditation'. The mantra is "ham". While repeating the mantra mentally you visualize a silver thread going from the throat chakra to the tip of the nose, then to the brow, then to the crown. I put in great effort because I was determined to levitate. I practiced this every day for 1 hour for 30 days in a row. What would happen consistently is that the body would dissolve after about 20 minutes. Then, after a while, everything would disappear and there remained an upside down waterfall of silver sparkly light starting in the center of the neck, moving upwards for about 8 inches. It kind of pulls you upwards. But, I don't think I ever levitated because there is no body left at that time so who knows where it went, let alone if it levitated..

A few times during a 10 day initiation practice of performing a very long mantra 108 times per sitting (the sittings lasted anywhere from 1 hour 40 min to 2 1/2 hours), I would reach a point where my mind would just shut off and my body would split into 4 bodies, hanging out in a huge empty space.

And, I've had several satori moments and they are so beautiful and wonderful that during them, the mind was effectively stilled for a short period of time..

I know what you are getting at. During a successful meditation, the memory is stilled because the mind is stilled. I agree with that.
However I still do not believe that any of the samadhis (nirvikalpa or otherwise) or jhanas cause permanent memory loss after the experience, which is what you've said. No matter. I really don't care anymore.

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 01 2011 01:15:54 AM
Message:

Hi Jeff,:)

quote:
Originally posted by jeff

TI,

Thank you for sharing your insights and perspective on the chakras. It is interesting to have an "under the covers" dualistic discussion. You have obviously spent more time focusing on the individual chakras than I have.


You know, for about two years, sometimes for my last meditation of the day, just before sleep, I would spin all of the chakras and just play around with them. Very light, fun kind of stuff. I would visualize them like Barbara Brennon depicts them like in here:
http://www.kabbalahandhealing.nl/en...lingen_e.htm
Sometimes I would visualize the colors in the chakras, and other times, just white light. I would practice spinning them, both front and back, slowing them down, speeding them up, connecting them through the central channel, running my hands up and down through them, sending healing to people, you know, just having fun. Sometimes I would bring some crystals to meditations and that made everything allot clearer.. It was lots of fun at the time.


quote:

I did spend some time directing energy to grow specific chakras, but found it just unbalanced or overloaded me. After that, I just started letting it flow. Also, have you tried "creating" the energy directly in the chakra?


No, never tried creating energy in the chakra. I've always thought and learned that you can direct energy to them from some other source like the lower tan tien, or even by pulling in prana or chi from the surrounding area. I didn't think I can create energy, perhaps only transmute it and direct it.

quote:

In my experience, after a while the third eye and crown begin to merge into one integrated chakra.


Yes. I know of a practice called the "Red Phoenix" where you draw the energy from the third eye to the center of the head and then up to the crown. (I can't tell you exactly how it is done, you'd have to take a kunlun course to find out.. ). I think that that practice connects a pathway, which, I've read, men need to connect, but women don't (because in women it is already connected). I wish I could remember where I read that..

quote:

Are you looking for "powers" or just exploring?



My mind has a bent towards finding out how things work. Like, when I learned of the technique to perform distance viewing from the heart, and then it worked, it was amazing.

I've also always wanted to be a healer. Perhaps that's because my father died of cancer when I was 24 (he was 49), and two of my younger sisters also died of cancer when they were 32 and 29.

I'm fascinated by how things work. Like, have you ever wondered how a guru (or person) can look at you at know everything about you? Your past lives, your thoughts etc??? Well I found that technique here from my favorites monks (you'll have to read the whole chapter for the steps):

link: http://www.himalayanacademy.com/res...s_ch-13.html
The chapter is called "Five Steps to Enlightenment"
quote:
Step by step, practice withdrawal of the mind and look inward. One by one, you will witness the myriad good things within. Now and here below, you may meet the Lord for whom the ancient Veda still searches everywhere.
Tirumantiram 578



This is the effect of practising the five steps:
quote:

You look at the world from the inside out. You look at people from the inside out. You look at a person, and immediately you see how he came along through life. You look at his face, and you see what his mother looks like. You look into his subconscious mind; you see what his home looked like. You see what he was like when he was ten years old, fourteen, twenty, twenty-five years old; now he is thirty. And at the same time you are seeing what he is going to look like when he is forty years old, and so forth. You see the whole sequence, all now. Then you really know, after that deep samadhi, that the mind, in all phases of manifestation, was all finished long ago. It's already complete.



So I kind of thought that powers and enlightenment kind of go together. The powers are indicators that you are progressing and performing your practices/techniques correctly. Also, the powers are a good way to see if the guru/person is accomplished or not. And, yes, it is possible to have powers and not be enlightened.

I know it just blew me away when my guru, Shri Anandi Ma, appeared to me after my shaktipat in absentia initiation and presented me with a beautiful glowing red rose, all in the astral plane (or mind's eye space) as a graduation gift.

Now I know there has been allot of discussion about powers/siddhis on this forum. Some don't want them, they are a distraction, they could corrupt you, don't pursue them, they are a by-product not the main goal etc.. Each to his own. Whatever the mind believes becomes reality. If you don't have good control over your desires/mind/willpower, demonstrating powers could be very dangerous and incur lots of bad karma. And, the main goal is to realize the self. If it happens to be magical, so be it..

Jesus and Buddha had powers. So did John Wilder.. :)

Please God, grant everyone who obtains or has powers/siddhis the wisdom to use them wisely and for the good of humanity. :)

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 01 2011 01:31:31 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by maheswari
deep sleep which seems a handy substitute for Turiya


Hey maheswari, :)
Thanks for that. I was doing some research, comparing turiya to deep sleep and I actually found a page written by Osho where he expounded on the technique of turning the attention around to discover who is looking...
link: http://www.oshoteachings.com/osho-o...attains-all/
quote:

When you are filled with attachments, when you are tranquil, when you are restless – there is someone within who keeps a constant watch; but you take no notice of this observer. Your attention flows toward what is seen in the world, and you are one with what you see; it doesn’t occur to you to turn and see the observer within who watches. This is all you have to do: turn within and see the observer. Your unconsciousness will break and you will attain the fourth state. He who attains the fourth state attains all. He who does not attain the fourth state, finds at the time of death that whatever he has earned, whatever he has gathered, is not worth a penny. It is all useless.



I admit that I'm not a big fan of Osho, probably because he talks too much (kidding), but it was nice to see another source stating the method of turning one's attention towards the knower or observer..

:)
TI


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jul 01 2011 08:18:33 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
.. but I have seen no other statements that memory is permanently erased.

Q: As you talk to us just now, are you unconscious?
M: I am neither conscious nor unconscious, I am beyond the mind and its various states and conditions. Distinctions are created by the mind and apply to the mind only. I am pure Consciousness itself, unbroken awareness of all that is. I am in a more real state than yours. I am undistracted by the distinctions and separations which constitute a person. As long as the body lasts, it has its needs like any other, but my mental process has come to an end.

Q: You behave like a person who thinks.
M: Why not? But my thinking, like my digestion, is unconscious and purposeful.

Q: At this very moment who talks, if not the mind?
M: That which hears the question, answers it.

Q: But who is it?
M: Not who, but what. I'm not a person in your sense of the word, though I may appear a person to you. I am that infinite ocean of consciousness in which all happens. I am also beyond all existence and cognition, pure bliss of being. There is nothing I feel separate from, hence I am all. No thing is me, so I am nothing. The same power that makes the fire burn and the water flow, the seeds sprout and the trees grow, makes me answer your questions. There is nothing personal about me, though the language and the style may appear personal. A person is a set pattern of desires and thoughts and resulting actions; there is no such pattern in my case. There is nothing I desire or fear -- how can there be a pattern?

~ Nisargadatta [I Am That]

Tada!


Reply author: maheswari
Replied on: Jul 01 2011 08:54:17 AM
Message:

good link TI...txs..personally i like Osho
manigma i have the book but did not read it yet...i am still ruminating Ramana cause he is more clear that Nisargadatta
Love to all


Reply author: jeff
Replied on: Jul 01 2011 11:20:52 AM
Message:

TI,

Thanks for the links, I will definitely look into them.

Interesting story (for me anyways) of how I am constantly amazed by how I seem to always be "guided" to things that I a am supposed to do/learn. Over the last couple days that we have talked in this thread, I have also had some email communication with Wayne (Wirs). One of the points, we thought would be useful for the AYP community. So I did a search to see if I could find an appropriate thread to add the information to and found an old (2009) thread that Kirtanman started about Wayne in which you, Christi & Kirtanman debate Enlightenment with or without Engoddenment. Great thread & discussion. But, I now have a much better understanding of where you are coming from. Also, it "feels" like I should spend some time with your threads...

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
No, never tried creating energy in the chakra. I've always thought and learned that you can direct energy to them from some other source like the lower tan tien, or even by pulling in prana or chi from the surrounding area. I didn't think I can create energy, perhaps only transmute it and direct it.



The good news about being on a "pathless" path is that nobody tells you what you can and can't do. The bad news is there is a lot of trial & error... Shanti discusses the beginning basics of "energy creation" in the thread below. Once you get the "knack" of it, you can skip all of her described steps and just do it. To me, it feels more like opening the door to the energy. But be careful, there is "unlimited" energy back there. If you haven't already learned how, you should first learn how to "radiate" excess energy. Another one of the meanings of "divine outpouring of love" is "so much energy that you don't know what the heck to do with it, so radiate it..."

http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3489

Happy to discuss this more if you are interested.

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
My mind has a bent towards finding out how things work.



I am basically the same, but still working on trying to "surrender" the desire.

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
I've also always wanted to be a healer. Perhaps that's because my father died of cancer when I was 24 (he was 49), and two of my younger sisters also died of cancer when they were 32 and 29.



I also lost my father to brain cancer and my only brother died of leukemia at 21. I think it is great that you want to help people, but everyone has their own path and as I am sure that you can already see, there is a flow. In my limited experience, healing is more about the "receiving and accepting" than the "giving".

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
So I kind of thought that powers and enlightenment kind of go together. The powers are indicators that you are progressing and performing your practices/techniques correctly. Also, the powers are a good way to see if the guru/person is accomplished or not. And, yes, it is possible to have powers and not be enlightened.



I agree with you on this. Even Wayne (who Kirtanman quoted/defended) now describes it as "mystical oneness" rather than "enlightenment". His initial impressions have dramatically grown & changed. Also, not really having anyone else to talk to, I conducted my early experiments to basically "prove" to myself that I wasn't imagining it all. To me, powers are just focused intent wrapped in energy. I have found that there is a flow to everything and it is better to just "feel the flow and go with it".

Finally, I really enjoyed the old thread of your discussion with Christi & Kirtanman. Any other old threads that you would recommend reading...?

Peace & Love.


Reply author: jeff
Replied on: Jul 01 2011 11:31:42 AM
Message:

Manigma or Mareswari,

Question for you... Is your position that memory is erased or mind/ego? All of the quotes you have stated describe the loss of individual "mind/ego" not "memory". The initial impact of "oneness" seems to be initially overwhelming, but all the masters seem to ultimately find their memory.

I was just wondering if it was a wording issue.

Peace & Love.


Reply author: maheswari
Replied on: Jul 01 2011 3:12:41 PM
Message:

memory or Chitta in vedic terminology is a collection of past samsakaras....ie the subconscious...so it is defintely related to the ego....
the enlightened has no ego...all his samskaras are burnt...
as manigma quoted Nisargadatta

quote:
I'm not a person in your sense of the word, though I may appear a person to you. I am that infinite ocean of consciousness in which all happens. I am also beyond all existence and cognition, pure bliss of being. There is nothing I feel separate from, hence I am all. No thing is me, so I am nothing. The same power that makes the fire burn and the water flow, the seeds sprout and the trees grow, makes me answer your questions. There is nothing personal about me, though the language and the style may appear personal. A person is a set pattern of desires and thoughts and resulting actions; there is no such pattern in my case. There is nothing I desire or fear -- how can there be a pattern?


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jul 02 2011 12:39:42 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by maheswari

memory or Chitta in vedic terminology is a collection of past samsakaras....ie the subconscious...so it is defintely related to the ego....
the enlightened has no ego...all his samskaras are burnt...
as manigma quoted Nisargadatta
quote:
I'm not a person in your sense of the word, though I may appear a person to you. I am that infinite ocean of consciousness in which all happens. I am also beyond all existence and cognition, pure bliss of being. There is nothing I feel separate from, hence I am all. No thing is me, so I am nothing. The same power that makes the fire burn and the water flow, the seeds sprout and the trees grow, makes me answer your questions. There is nothing personal about me, though the language and the style may appear personal. A person is a set pattern of desires and thoughts and resulting actions; there is no such pattern in my case. There is nothing I desire or fear -- how can there be a pattern?



Wow... that was great Maha . It would make things much clearer.

I literally didn't know "memory" was called Chitta in Sanskrit.

http://veda.wikidot.com/chitta


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 02 2011 01:09:25 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by jeff
...
Shanti discusses the beginning basics of "energy creation" in the thread below. Once you get the "knack" of it, you can skip all of her described steps and just do it. To me, it feels more like opening the door to the energy. But be careful, there is "unlimited" energy back there. If you haven't already learned how, you should first learn how to "radiate" excess energy. Another one of the meanings of "divine outpouring of love" is "so much energy that you don't know what the heck to do with it, so radiate it..."

http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3489

Happy to discuss this more if you are interested.
...


Hi Jeff,
Yes, I had read that post a while ago. Dissolving thoughts is definately an interesting practice. There are many components to that discussion that should be noted. First is the architecture of the two levels of consciousness that are used.

I noticed something when I was practising samyama a while back. After a few years of samyama, I observed the fact that a part of my mind would remember the next sutra, then hold it for the appropriate time and then release it internally into the internal consciousness or into the void or even into inner silence, (not sure what to call it) but no matter.

Then I wondered what it would be like if one were to bypass the two-stage process (that is, the first stage is the acquisition of the sutra into attention, the holding of it, and the waiting until the right moment, and the second stage is the releasing of the sutra into silence or the void (it looks more like a black void to me). I mean, instead of releasing the sutra into consciousness, what if you didn't prepare it but instead just released the sutra directly from that which was remembering, holding and then releasing the sutra? In other words, what if you made the subconscious or the superconscious do the releasing directly? Or even, what if you meditated directly with that deeper inner mind instead of allowing the mind the time to bring it into consciousness?

That led me into an inquiry about the levels of thought and the discovery that if a person intuits the mantra, that is, just has the finest faintest quickest smallest intention of producing one iteration of the mantra (or sutra), that there is this very bright white light above the head that this intuiting of the mantra seems to come from. Either that or the light hides behind thoughts and is not actually the source of thoughts. It is the thoughts which render the light invisible, like clouds blocking the sun.

From my observation, a thought is created seemingly out of silence/presence/dark space, but it might be coming from the light. It is pulled up from far away and really deep, in the back of the mind, like the smallest intuition or spec. Then the thought grows larger and the conscious mind gains an opportunity to grasp it. If the thought is given enough attention for a given amount of time, the thought is charged with more energy (attention) and this causes the conscious mind to react to it: Memories that might be relevant are brought up, reactions or emotions now come into play, rational examination may occur, other thoughts may precipitate etc.. Even, as with the mantra, the physical body may react in chorus with the thought, like the silent subvocalization from the throat and corresponding energy flow from the lower tan tien. This process uses up energy.

So yes, if you stop the thought, by not giving it more energy and halting your attention, the energy that was supposed to flow into the thought has to go somewhere.

So if you take it a step further, and just don't put any attention into thoughts, eventually you will effectively halt the flow of energy and become clear, thought-free and can see what lies beyond.

I think that is what Buddha meant by non-attachment or non-grasping.

Tolle said something interesting in one of his writings. He said that it takes the mind about 1, 2 or 3 seconds for the mind to grasp/attach to an external object. (the time varies a little per person). If you look at an object, like a dog or a tree, for the first few seconds the mind has not had time to grasp the object and come into play. At that point, you are observing the object without the cloudiness of mind. At that point, you are perceiving without the intervention of mind and the clouds of thought.

So this is what I do sometimes when sitting in the forest. I look at a tree for 1 second, then move my point of vision to another location on the tree, or move it to another tree, or a leaf or a branch and continue doing that every second. The mind doesn't have enough time to grasp what I'm looking at! It's great!

When I do this, the trees/leaves/branches, everything I am looking at, are vivid, crisp, clear and bright... something like high definition vision. Just think, if you keep changing your object of attention every second for 10 minutes, that is 10 minutes that the mind hasn't had time to grasp anything. That's 10 minutes of silence (and glorious, shiny scenery, the life force in trees becomes very clear).

Now apply that to the mantra. If your mind can grasp something in two seconds, and you keep the mantra down to under two seconds, what happens? For me, the space in my head opens up and the internal TV set turns on, I see white light, lots of visions and the root starts pulsing. But it all seems easier than if I make the mantra longer that two seconds.. I spent years stretching out the mantra to help keep solid attention on it.. DUH!!

Perhaps the thing that most intrigued me about that forum post that you posted the link for, is when Yogani says
quote:
Recall that the original instruction for picking up a sutra in samyama is to pick it up at a very faint and fuzzy level. This can also be interpreted to mean "the energy before the thought.


Now I am wondering the the "faint and fuzzy level" is the same as in the directions for deep meditation, where you pick up the mantra at the faint and fuzzy level. The implication being that you pick up the mantra as energy before the thought has time to manifest and before the conscious part of the mind can grasp it.. Something to think about..

Thanks for your correspondence. Yes, sometimes it is very interesting when someone points something out to you and you find great value in it. Thanks again.

:)
TI





Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jul 02 2011 01:20:12 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Yes, often. When I started doing a meditation of "looking back at who was watching", I would find myself lying in bed in the morning, with absolutely no thoughts/visions in my head and only the feeling or awareness that I existed. Then, if something pulled me out of that state, like the alarm going off or some exterior noise, I would watch myself being created along with the world...

... I know what you are getting at. During a successful meditation, the memory is stilled because the mind is stilled. I agree with that.
However I still do not believe that any of the samadhis (nirvikalpa or otherwise) or jhanas cause permanent memory loss after the experience, which is what you've said. No matter. I really don't care anymore.


None of the experiences you have mentioned above (or in this entire thread) relate to Samadhi. Those are beautiful and authentic experiences but none of them can be called Samadhi.

Samadhi is end of all experiences.

Experiences to me are like children admiring colorful pebbles and men amazed upon seeing diamonds. I have had such experiences that in comparison yours appear insignificant. But all experiences are useless.

Nisargadatta's words are so clear that if you had Samadhi even once, you would not have asked so many questions.

Even though you have said you don't care about this anymore, I would like to clear this re-incarnation stuff from a quote by Nisargadatta:

When Krishna says 'I remember all my past births', he means the 'I am', the fundamental feeling behind all births. There is no 'I am such-and-such'.
~Nisargadatta [Nisargadatta Gita]

Do not try to understand, un-understand!


Reply author: maheswari
Replied on: Jul 02 2011 03:26:39 AM
Message:

quote:
When Krishna says 'I remember all my past births', he means the 'I am', the fundamental feeling behind all births. There is no 'I am such-and-such'.
~Nisargadatta [Nisargadatta Gita]

.
awesome


Reply author: maheswari
Replied on: Jul 02 2011 11:17:27 AM
Message:

manigma
by the way...
in vedanta terminology Chitta is memory
whereas in raja yoga terrminology (Patanjali's sutras) Chitta means mind stuff...it corresponds to the Anthakarana in Vedanta....


Reply author: jeff
Replied on: Jul 02 2011 12:04:22 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
From my observation, a thought is created seemingly out of silence/presence/dark space, but it might be coming from the light. It is pulled up from far away and really deep, in the back of the mind, like the smallest intuition or spec. Then the thought grows larger and the conscious mind gains an opportunity to grasp it. If the thought is given enough attention for a given amount of time, the thought is charged with more energy (attention) and this causes the conscious mind to react to it: Memories that might be relevant are brought up, reactions or emotions now come into play, rational examination may occur, other thoughts may precipitate etc.. Even, as with the mantra, the physical body may react in chorus with the thought, like the silent subvocalization from the throat and corresponding energy flow from the lower tan tien. This process uses up energy.

So yes, if you stop the thought, by not giving it more energy and halting your attention, the energy that was supposed to flow into the thought has to go somewhere.

So if you take it a step further, and just don't put any attention into thoughts, eventually you will effectively halt the flow of energy and become clear, thought-free and can see what lies beyond.

I think that is what Buddha meant by non-attachment or non-grasping.



TI,

I agree. The energy follows the "awareness" or "attention". Drop the attention and the thought loses it energy. Never give anything energy and you have "pure awareness". But the energy is created (or defined) at the pre-intent stage, or as Yogani described "before the thought", so it is not about stopping the thought, but about never having the intent to have the thought.

Going back to the topic of creating energy... If you can see the energy created at Yogani's "before the thought", you can than skip the whole thought process and just open the door to the energy using just the pre-intent. If you hold the pre-intent door wide the energy keeps growing.

Peace & Love.


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 02 2011 11:42:23 PM
Message:

Hi Manigma :)
...

quote:
Originally posted by manigma
None of the experiences you have mentioned above (or in this entire thread) relate to Samadhi. Those are beautiful and authentic experiences but none of them can be called Samadhi.

Samadhi is end of all experiences.
...




We have a communication problem here.
Rather than define Samadhi yourself, could you please tell me from what reliable source you are taking your definition of "Samadhi"?

Here is Patanjali's definition of some kinds of Samadhi:
link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samadhi

quote:

According to Patańjali samadhi has three different categories:

1.Savikalpa - This is an interface of trans meditation[clarification needed] and higher awareness state, asamprajńata. The state is so named because mind retains its consciousness, which is why in savikalpa samadhi one can experience guessing (vitarka), thought (vicara), bliss Ananda) and self-awareness (asmita). In Sanskrit, "kalpa" means "imagination".
...
So "savikalpa" means "with vikalpa" or "with imagination". Ramana Maharshi defines "savikalpa samadhi" as, "holding on to reality with effort".
2.Asamprajńata is a step forward from savikalpa. According to Patańjali, asamprajńata is a higher awareness state with absence of gross awareness.
3.Nirvikalpa or sanjeevan - This is the highest transcendent state of consciousness. In this state there is no longer mind, duality, a subject-object relationship or experience. Upon entering nirvikalpa samadhi, the differences we saw before have faded and we can see everything as one. In this condition nothing but pure awareness remains and nothing detracts from wholeness and perfection.



It even quotes Nisargadatta here:

quote:

Samadhi is described in different ways within Hinduism such as the state of being aware of one’s existence without thinking, in a state of undifferentiated “beingness" or as an altered state of consciousness that is characterized by bliss (ananda) and joy (sukha). Nisargadatta Maharaj describes the state in the following manner:

When you say you sit for meditation, the first thing to be done is understand that it is not this body identification that is sitting for meditation, but this knowledge ‘I am’, this consciousness, which is sitting in meditation and is meditating on itself. When this is finally understood, then it becomes easy. When this consciousness, this conscious presence, merges in itself, the state of ‘Samadhi’ ensues. It is the conceptual feeling that I exist that disappears and merges into the beingness itself. So this conscious presence also gets merged into that knowledge, that beingness – that is ‘Samadhi’.



This article has 75 occurences of the word "samadhi".
link: http://www.cit-sakti.com/kundalini/...itation2.htm
quote:

Second, it is important to understand that when we say that a person achieves samadhi during meditation practice we do not necessarily mean that the mind always goes into that state and maintains it uninterruptedly for a long period. While this can happen, often meditators experience samadhi for a short period of time, and then their mind goes outward again and drops to a lower level of consciousness. This outward flowing of the mind is called vyutthana, and it happens when thoughts, attachments, desires and memories about the outside world (which are temporarily suppressed in samadhi) become active again. If the mind is able to regain the same depth of concentration, we may be able to reenter samadhi. In this way we may go into and out of samadhi several times in one meditation session. Through the process of samadhi and vyutthana the mind makes a comparison between the two states and feels the greater subtlety and peacefulness of the samadhi state. This encourages the meditator to try again to attain the higher state.



There are many kinds of Samadhi:
link: http://www.swamij.com/om.htm

quote:

Many types of Samadhi: There are many forms of Samadhi. An even cursory review of the texts will reveal dozens of different types. Mostly, these differences have to do with the nature of the object on which one was meditating before dropping into the state of Samadhi with that object.



Let's get a little more specific. I have done this next practice, and according to Gurudeva's writing, I entered savikalpa samadhi by listening to the high 'eeee' sound in both ears:
link: http://www.himalayanacademy.com/res...s_ch-38.html
quote:

Now, to bring the sushumna force into power, listen to both tones simultaneously. It may take you about five minutes to hear both tones at the same time. Next, follow both tonal vibrations from the ears into the center of the cranium, where they will meet and blend into a slightly different sound, as two notes, say, a "C" and an "E," blend into a chord. The energy of the nadis is then flowing in a circle, and you will enter the golden yellow light of the sushumna current. Play with this light and bask in its radiance, for in it is your bloom. The unfoldment progresses from a golden yellow to a clear white light. Should you see a blue light, know that you are in the pingala current. If you see a pink light, that is the color of the ida. Just disregard them and seek for the white light in the tone of the combined currents until finally you do not hear the tone anymore and you burst into the clear white light. Thus you enter savikalpa samadhi -- samadhi with seed, or consciousness, which is the culmination of this particular practice of contemplation.



And again from the Himalayan Academy:
quote:

After nirvikalpa samadhi is attained and perfected so that the mahayogi can go into it at will, he leaves the body consciously through the door of Brahman, the center of the sahasrara chakra above the pituitary gland at the top of the head.


So technically, I have achieved nirvikalpa samadhi more than twice.. The first time was over 20 years ago when I meditated on the area above the head, because I wanted to see the light that everyone was talking about. I was sitting in a recliner and spent 3 1/2 hours just focusing on the area about 6 inches above my head, where a star is supposed to be. After 3 1/2 hours I came out of my body through the top of my head and found myself in a large open space. It looked liked outer space but with very little light in it. I felt like I was going to die. I was shocked and afraid. I cut it short, but, according to the aforementioned quote, that was nirvikalpa samadhi because I left through the door of Brahmin. Since then I've had a few episodes in the void, which I wrote about on this forum.. You don't have to go through the top of your head to get into the void.. You can leave through the bindu at the back of the head. You can also leave through the ajna. Regulated breath control as in Spinal Breathing will get you there too.

So, Manigma, I really don't know what you are talking about. Whose teachings do you follow that uses words/terminology with meanings so far removed from the mainstream of yoga?

And, here is something funny I came accross in "The Essence of the Bhagavad Gita, explained by Paramhansa Yogananda, As remembered by His Disciple, Swami Kriyananda" , page 126 (bolding is mine)
quote:

One who attains nirbikalpa samadhi has reached the highest state state there is. He has only to rid himself of the memories of past incarnations of ego-identification. Otherwise, he is like Christ, Krishna, and Buddha. From oneness with God it is impossible to rise any higher. "


Although this interpretation of Nirvikalpa samadhi is different from most others because it might seem like reaching nirvikalpa samadhi once is all it takes to become self realized (other sources say that you have to enter nirvikalpa samadhi many times to become enlightened), it does mention that memories still remain! So much for "nirvikalpa samadhi erasing all memories.. "

Do you still think that Nisargadatta was right?

Are you speaking from experience or just off the top of your head? (Pun intended). ;)

Perhaps you meant "None of the experiences you have mentioned above (or in this entire thread) relate to Self Realization. Those are beautiful and authentic experiences but none of them can be called Samadhi.
Self Realization is end of all experiences."

And if that is what you are saying, aren't all of my experiences related to Self Realization? And aren't all of my experiences some form of samadhi?

And yes, I am not Self Realized. Thanks for pointing that out.. :)

:)
TI


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jul 03 2011 01:33:46 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
So, Manigma, I really don't know what you are talking about. Whose teachings do you follow that uses words/terminology with meanings so far removed from the mainstream of yoga?


LOL. From the one who taught Yoga to Patanjali.

Well I agree with what Patańjali, Ramana and Nisargadatta have said.

The Himalayan Academy seems to have a different explanation, your out of body experience fits there Nirvikalpa Samadhi but its not even Samadhi according to me.

But if you think it is what it is, enjoy!


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jul 03 2011 01:41:56 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
And, here is something funny I came accross in "The Essence of the Bhagavad Gita, explained by Paramhansa Yogananda, As remembered by His Disciple, Swami Kriyananda" , page 126 (bolding is mine)
quote:

One who attains nirbikalpa samadhi has reached the highest state state there is. He has only to rid himself of the memories of past incarnations of ego-identification. Otherwise, he is like Christ, Krishna, and Buddha. From oneness with God it is impossible to rise any higher. "


Do you still think that Nisargadatta was right?


Well that was Swami Kriyananda's memory/remembrance on what Paramhansa Yogananda had said.

As Maheshwari has mentioned above, the "Chitta - memory" stuff and the passage I have quoted from "I Am That"... that makes things very clear where Nisargadatta stands and what he meant when he said:

With the dropping of the primary experience 'I am', all experiences will vanish and only the Absolute remains.

When this concept 'I am' departs, there will be no memory left that 'I was' and 'I had' those experiences, the very memory will be erased.

~Nisargadatta [Nisargadatta Gita]

Perhaps this would make things more clear on what I mean by Samadhi and what Nisargadatta means by erasing of memory:

"Dharmakaya (Truth) has no form, therefore one sees it without seeing. Dharma (Reality) has no voice, therefore one hears it without hearing. Prajna (Self) has nothing to be known, therefore one knows it without knowing. If one thinks that he is seeing, he sees it incompletely. If one thinks that he knows it, he does not know it thoroughly. When one knows it without knowing, he knows it completely. If one does not know this, he is not a true knower. If one thinks that he is gaining, he is not gaining entirely. When he gains nongaining, he owns everything. If one thinks that he is right, his righteousness is not perfect. When he transcends right and wrong, his virtues are accomplished."
~ Bodhidharma [The White Lotus]
http://www.balbro.com/lotus


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 03 2011 3:33:10 PM
Message:

Hi Manigma, :)
Guess what? I finally found the link where Sri Chinmoy wrote about nirvikalpa samadhi with reference to memory loss, but it doesn't seem to be permanent:

link: http://www.srichinmoylibrary.com/books/0141/4/4

quote:

Nirvikalpa</I> samadhi is the highest samadhi that most spiritual Masters attain, and then only if they have achieved realisation. It lasts for a few hours or a few days, and then one has to come down. When one comes down, what happens? Very often one forgets his own name. One forgets his own age. He cannot speak properly. But through continued practice, gradually one becomes able to come down from <i>nirvikalpa samadhi and immediately function in a normal way.

There were spiritual Masters in the hoary past who attained nirvikalpa samadhi and did not come down. They maintained their highest samadhi and found it impossible to enter into the world atmosphere and work like human beings. One cannot operate in the world while in that state of consciousness; it is simply impossible.



You've probably never heard of Sri Chinmoy, not many people have.. He has an interesting perspective..
Here is the index to his writings:
link: http://www.srichinmoylibrary.com/books/0141


:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 03 2011 3:53:22 PM
Message:

Hi :)
I finally found some insight about the light in the head!!!

link: http://www.himalayanacademy.com/res...s_ch-15.html

quote:

Wednesday
LESSON 101
Each Test Is an Opportunity

We carry with us in our instinctive nature basic tendencies to break these divine laws, to undergo the experiences that will create reactive conditions until we sit ourselves down and start to unravel the mess. If we are still reacting to our experiences, we are only starting on the yoga path to enlightenment. As soon as we cease to react, we have for the first time the vision of the inner light.

What do we mean by this word light? We mean light, literally, not metaphysically or symbolically, but light, just as you see the light of the sun or a light emitted by a bulb. Even in the Abrahamic scripture it is given, "When your eye becomes single, your whole body shall be filled with light." You will see light first at the top of the head, then throughout the body. An openness of mind occurs, and great peace. As a seeker gazes upon his inner light in contemplation, he continues the process of purifying the subconscious mind. As soon as that first yoga awakening comes to you, your whole nature begins to change. You have a foundation on which to continue. The yamas and the niyamas are the foundation.



Non-reaction and purifying the subconscious causes the light to shine!!

:)
TI


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Jul 03 2011 4:31:37 PM
Message:

Hi TI,

The inner lights in the body are discussed in lesson 56, which you may find interesting:

quote:
These words of Jesus also have a literal meaning -- a very literal meaning. If your attention becomes centered in the single channel of the spinal nerve, taking it to the point between the eyebrows again and again, your body will become filled with light. This is how it happens. Sambhavi is one of the most important means by which the third eye is opened. In opening the third eye, all that is below is activated as well. Sambhavi has direct influence through the spinal nerve on sexual energy. As purification of the nervous system progresses, sambhavi gives us a great degree of control over the cultivation and rise of sexual energy. This, in turn, gives rise to the experience of increasing ecstasy in the body, which includes profound experiences of divine light surging through every nerve in us. Our body is “filled with light.”


http://www.aypsite.org/56.html

Christi


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 03 2011 11:53:13 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Hi TI,

The inner lights in the body are discussed in lesson 56, which you may find interesting:

quote:
These words of Jesus also have a literal meaning -- a very literal meaning. If your attention becomes centered in the single channel of the spinal nerve, taking it to the point between the eyebrows again and again, your body will become filled with light. This is how it happens. Sambhavi is one of the most important means by which the third eye is opened. In opening the third eye, all that is below is activated as well. Sambhavi has direct influence through the spinal nerve on sexual energy. As purification of the nervous system progresses, sambhavi gives us a great degree of control over the cultivation and rise of sexual energy. This, in turn, gives rise to the experience of increasing ecstasy in the body, which includes profound experiences of divine light surging through every nerve in us. Our body is “filled with light.”


http://www.aypsite.org/56.html

Christi


Hi Christi :)
Thanks for that. It corresponds nicely with the Whole Body Mudra and the other things that I have learned (or am re-learning). :)
Just re-read Yogani's Deep Meditation book. Yes, he mentions the light in there too (once the clouds are removed).
Which brings me to my next post..

Always nice to have your input, Christi.

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 04 2011 12:44:42 AM
Message:

Hi, :)
Here is an update on something wonderful that I've realized today. I think I know what inner silence is now. !!! Maybe. !!

During my morning meditation, I gave up. I just got fed up with all the techniques, being effortless, trying too hard, not trying hard enough.. I just sat and said to myself "AUM NAMAH SHIVAYA", gave an intention of worshipping God with my heart and then just simply repeated "AUM NAMAH SHIVAYA". I believe I had my tongue on the roof of my mouth and was doing a mild sambhavi, but it kills me because I can't remember for sure. Odds are that I was.

I repeated that mantra, with no special effort, sort of like I didn't care. I wasn't trying to be effortless. I wasn't trying to really focus on it. At one point, it occured to me to start visualizing that mantra but I gave up on that too. I just kind of mentally repeated "AUM NAMAH SHIVAYA" like I couldn't care less about anything, and half-heartedly listened to it. Then it happened.

I saw a shift in the center of my head. It resembled a cloud of astral light and I could see what looked like an artery or shaft of white light shift over and away. The next thing I knew, I was immersed in white light, no thoughts, feeling blissful and peaceful. Really peaceful. It lasted a few seconds. Then I noticed I was off the mantra and I went back to repeating it, carelessly.

Then, the whole shift happened again! I found myself immersed in a cloud of white thick light, feeling blissful and peaceful! No thoughts, not much of anything else.

I must admit, I like the state very much. In fact, I was so looking forward to being in it again through careless mantra repetition, that I think that is why it didn't happen again during the afternoon meditation.

Now I am getting anxious to experience that again. A kind of anxiety is developing that I won't be able to do it again. And, I'm really mad at myself for not understanding the proper procedure to get into that state. I think I have been either trying too hard, fiddling around too much or being too concerned with the mantra repetition during meditations that I have done in the past 4 years.

Although, I do admit, I've hit that state a few times in the last four years. Once, I hit that same state very quickly by just trying to find the feeling of "me" in the body. I ended up on the right side of the heart, the white light appeared accompanied by large amounts of bliss and I laughed so hard it pulled me out of it. Also, I hit that stat a few times by visually 'flashing' the "I am" mantra in the center of the head. I needed confirmation that that state is what is to be sought after.. I never realized that that could be the AYP inner silence.. Is it?

In Rosenthal's book on Transcendence (TM), he has examples about how TM meditators experience transcendance regularily during meditation.

The impact of today's meditation experience is still mushrooming in me. I think in one sense, during meditations, I've gone far beyond and very deep into awareness and have experienced some interesting phenomenon. I have also learned many different methods and styles of mantra repetition (with meaning, without meaning, intuiting the mantra, pulsing the mantra from the lower tan tien, stretching it out, visualizing the letters, focusing just on the "I" etc..). I'm kind of amazed at the simplicity of today's experience..

Now come the questions:
Did I hit INNER SILENCE twice today? Was that it?

COULD THIS BE CALLED TRANSCENDANCE as in TM?

WILL THIS STATE GROW LONGER THE MORE I AM IN IT?

Do you hit this state every time you meditate using simple mantra repetition?

Does it last long?

In Rosenthal's book on TM, there are some examples of meditators who stay in transcendance throughout the whole meditation session. Does this happen to you? Would that be a good thing?

Yogani, if that is inner silence, you wrote that you can enjoy the state, but it is the going in repeatedly that does the purification.. It almost seems that spending 1/2 and hour in inner silence bathing in the light is not the thing to do, but instead, come out of it and then repeat the mantra.. I'm confused here.. If you are seeing the light and you have no thoughts, isn't your sky of the mind clear of clouds?

Yogani, if you are listening, I would sure appreciate your insights..

:)
TI



Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jul 04 2011 01:03:29 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
You've probably never heard of Sri Chinmoy, not many people have.. He has an interesting perspective..


http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=9277


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jul 04 2011 03:36:28 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Non-reaction and purifying the subconscious causes the light to shine!!


I had this little experience with light sometime ago. I hope you can describe what it was.

It just happened suddenly without any warning during my morning meditation. I can't describe it exactly as it was too overwhelming when it happened. So I'll put it in fragments I remember.

There was sound of OM... like a BIG BIG massive tsunamic roar, I had never heard anything so stunning and shockingly loud. It was like an alarm blowing away not only my sleep, but my life, my mind, my dreams, everything...

And simultaneously there was Light... immense universal tusnamic bang of light... the whole world was blown/washed away with it... I saw Ramana, Osho, Buddha, Lord Shiva... consumed away in this wave of light and roar.

And then I was myself consumed away in it and just this pure light and roaring remained. I was myself its source.

I felt like dying and being born at the same time.

I literally cried OM in one breath for a minute or so (my family told me this as they came running outside my room hearing my cry). Then I fell on the floor and my tailbone and back of my head were glued with the ground.

I felt great pain at these two spots but my heart at the same time rose upwards. I started laughing... insanely.

I used to laugh without reason while ejaculating when I was young. But this laugh was even more insane. Because it was like I was having a hundred ejaculations.

It took me a few hours to cooldown after this and I thought I had some great Samadhi. But it was not even close to Samadhi.

I discovered Samadhi only after reading Nisargadatta.


Reply author: machi
Replied on: Jul 04 2011 04:16:08 AM
Message:

quote:
Now I am getting anxious to experience that again. A kind of anxiety is developing that I won't be able to do it again. And, I'm really mad at myself for not understanding the proper procedure to get into that state. I think I have been either trying too hard, fiddling around too much or being too concerned with the mantra repetition during meditations that I have done in the past 4 years.


I emotionally understand your anxiety, because I have suffered from this malice as well. It is important to purify yourself from it. The anxiety originates partially from the desire to achieve results, to have experiences. This is an impure foundation that will ultimately hamper your practise. Your motivations have to be *pure*. If not, this will reflect on your meditation. You say that you become really mad - that is a very bad result to obtain from a meditation!
You must try to accept that experiences are guidestones on the path to the ultimate destination. If you park your car with a guidestone, you will obviously never arrive at the destination! Experiences can indicate the awakening of a chakra, the opening of nadi, etc and can give the practisioner a teaser of what is beyond. Just continue your practise and focus on what lies beyond.


Reply author: yogani
Replied on: Jul 04 2011 10:01:20 AM
Message:

Hi TI:

Easily coming back to the mantra is not "coming out" of the experience we are in. It is simply favoring the mantra at whatever level of clarity we are at in the mind, and continuing. No adjustment in attention is necessary beyond a simple favoring wherever we are when we notice we are off the mantra.

Nothing is left behind, except our analysis of what is happening while we are meditating. Best to save the analysis for later. Or forget about analysis altogether, and just practice daily with consistency. Letting go of the need to analyze is the way forward.

The nature of our experience during meditation is irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant during meditation is consistent application of the procedure. When we understand this and take it to heart, we will find life overall becoming better naturally. This is where we find the beneficial results of meditation, not during meditation.

The guru is in you.

PS: I am not able advise much on the effects of modifications to the AYP baseline system, including the use of alternate mantras. See Lesson 384 on that. As you know, the variations are endless, and it is not possible to try them all in one lifetime, or in 100 lifetimes! To what avail? It is like that with analyzing experiences too -- an endless labyrinth of mind stuff. Much more effective to practice one thing consistently with complete innocence than to practice 100 things inconsistently while analyzing every detail. As always, it's your call.


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 04 2011 11:28:21 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by manigma

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Non-reaction and purifying the subconscious causes the light to shine!!


I had this little experience with light sometime ago. I hope you can describe what it was.

It just happened suddenly without any warning during my morning meditation. I can't describe it exactly as it was too overwhelming when it happened. So I'll put it in fragments I remember.

There was sound of OM... like a BIG BIG massive tsunamic roar, I had never heard anything so stunning and shockingly loud. It was like an alarm blowing away not only my sleep, but my life, my mind, my dreams, everything...

And simultaneously there was Light... immense universal tusnamic bang of light... the whole world was blown/washed away with it... I saw Ramana, Osho, Buddha, Lord Shiva... consumed away in this wave of light and roar.

And then I was myself consumed away in it and just this pure light and roaring remained. I was myself its source.

I felt like dying and being born at the same time.

I literally cried OM in one breath for a minute or so (my family told me this as they came running outside my room hearing my cry). Then I fell on the floor and my tailbone and back of my head were glued with the ground.

I felt great pain at these two spots but my heart at the same time rose upwards. I started laughing... insanely.

I used to laugh without reason while ejaculating when I was young. But this laugh was even more insane. Because it was like I was having a hundred ejaculations.

It took me a few hours to cooldown after this and I thought I had some great Samadhi. But it was not even close to Samadhi.

I discovered Samadhi only after reading Nisargadatta.




Hi Mangima :)
Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I appreciate it.
quote:

I had this little experience with light sometime ago. I hope you can describe what it was.


That was quite the experience, Manigma.. What kind of meditation were you doing at the time? Was it bringing the root energy into the ajna, as you described in your 2009 post?

Yes, that is the light of Kundalini. It is very bright. Brighter than an arc welder's torch. Brighter than many suns. It is white hot, has even a touch of blue in it at places..

The big roar must have happened when your kundalini passed through the heart chakra. (unstruck sounds)

When kundalini passes through the second and third chakra up until the heart, yes it feels like having 1000 orgasms all at once. But above the heart it transmutes into finer energy..

Sounds like kundalini grounded itself into the earth through your root and bindu..

Kundalini is a firey light, so bright and powerful. I have seen that light twice, and experienced that ecstasy as well. I lost interest in sex for many months after, because sex pales in comparison!

The light that I see in my head is similar but not so bright, although sometimes it does get pretty bright. The light that I see is from the star over the top of the head, or at the third eye. The third eye light looks like a cool moon or pale disc. Sometimes, if I spend more time on the heart, I will also see bright white light (looks kind of misty) project outwards revealing other planes and beings in there.. but I haven't done that for a while now..

So Manigma, when you say that you discovered Samadhi (formal interpretations aside), was the discovery an experience too? What was that like?

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 04 2011 11:52:36 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by machi
I emotionally understand your anxiety, because I have suffered from this malice as well. It is important to purify yourself from it. The anxiety originates partially from the desire to achieve results, to have experiences. This is an impure foundation that will ultimately hamper your practise. Your motivations have to be *pure*. If not, this will reflect on your meditation. You say that you become really mad - that is a very bad result to obtain from a meditation!
You must try to accept that experiences are guidestones on the path to the ultimate destination. If you park your car with a guidestone, you will obviously never arrive at the destination! Experiences can indicate the awakening of a chakra, the opening of nadi, etc and can give the practisioner a teaser of what is beyond. Just continue your practise and focus on what lies beyond.


Hi Machi :)
When I experienced the anxiety, I was thinking to myself that the transcendant experience is so finicky, fleeting and unstable that I won't be able to reproduce it at will. My mind wants something consistent, the ability to hit that state consistently. I'm convinced that once I get the right technique, I will experience transcendence regularily, as supposedly is the case with many others. I'm so scared of wasting my time. I keep thinking of people who've meditated for years, 20 or 30 years, and have never succeeded in stopping the mind and experiencing what is beyond. You read about those people mostly in the advaita camps. Those are the people who want freedom from having to practice and meditate. It seems that those teachers use clever tactics and philosophies to detach the mind and make them believe that they are already enlightened. This is just my present opinion..

The meditation did not make me mad. The realization that maybe I had been doing all the wrong things for many years did. I say "maybe" because I haven't had much experience in this new transcendant state. Once I spend more time in it, I should be able to assess what other practices come close to or even surpass it. I have so many questions, like is it possible to turn your attention around and do self-inquiry in the transcendent state? Will that state expand into infinity? I read a statement from the Maharishi that invited the Beatles to experience the transcendant state 24 hours a day. Is that even possible? At this point I think I may be falling prey to language and communication barriers, or maybe even good marketing.. who knows.

Anyway, thank you for your concern and input.

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 05 2011 12:28:41 AM
Message:

Hi Yogani :)
Thank you so much for your response. I appreciate your time and advice.

quote:
Originally posted by yogani

Hi TI:

Easily coming back to the mantra is not "coming out" of the experience we are in. It is simply favoring the mantra at whatever level of clarity we are at in the mind, and continuing. No adjustment in attention is necessary beyond a simple favoring wherever we are when we notice we are off the mantra.

Nothing is left behind, except our analysis of what is happening while we are meditating. Best to save the analysis for later. Or forget about analysis altogether, and just practice daily with consistency. Letting go of the need to analyze is the way forward.

The nature of our experience during meditation is irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant during meditation is consistent application of the procedure. When we understand this and take it to heart, we will find life overall becoming better naturally. This is where we find the beneficial results of meditation, not during meditation.



I guess I'm saying that I don't know the procedure. Because, if I did I would be experiencing transcendance during meditation. I thought Deep Meditation was like TM. How can TM have the goal of experiencing transcendance during meditation, while Deep Meditation does not? Is not the goal an indicator of proper technique?

Today, I went back to my regular routine: prayer, bhastrika, spinal breathing and then 20 minutes of "i am" meditation.

What happens is that the mantra turns into visible thoughts. I mentally repeat "i am" and it releases an intertwined bunch of visions, that, upon examination, first look like colorful ribbons that change into people, faces, things, objects, more thoughts. It isn't a sound, it is a vibration of colorful pictures. I never hit the point where my mind actually shuts off. Not like yesterday's experience.

Perhaps I have misused that mantra for so long that I have trained my mind unknowingly to produce these streams or ribbons of form-stuff. Or perhaps it is deep purification and I just don't know that that is what is occuring.. Maybe it is the subconscious doing house cleaning? Will it ever end?

And then, there is the question, why do house cleaning when I can jump right into inner silence using the proper technique.. (if I can call that state 'inner silence', and if I can finally get the proper technique).

I don't want to burden you with my problems. I'm sure I will work them out.

Thanks again.
:)
TI


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jul 05 2011 03:32:51 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
That was quite the experience, Manigma.. What kind of meditation were you doing at the time? Was it bringing the root energy into the ajna, as you described in your 2009 post?


Well I was not going to meditate that morning. But I was sort of restless/uneasy when I woke up and felt being compelled/forced to meditate. So I just went into my meditation room, locked it and sat down. Did no fiddling with energy, no efforts, no mantras, no witnessing. You can call it 'Whatever Meditation'. LOL.

I didn't know what the heck the experience was but I said something like 'Jesus. What a mind-job.' ~Cypher [The Matrix]

I didn't lose interest in sex after that but it changed the way I had sex . I had several experiences after that... for months. There were so many that I didn't care and I eventually got bored with experiences.

Here is another I can't remember when exactly it happened:

I was observing the cool sun in my third eye and was suddenly pulled beyond/within it. I saw a Universe with all the galaxies in it... then I was taken even further beyond/upwards and I saw Universes... millions and millions of Universes (just like we have galaxies in a Universe). And all the Universes were floating inside my belly and my belly was glowing. It was so beautiful and blissful. I felt like I was a pregnant woman.

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
So Manigma, when you say that you discovered Samadhi (formal interpretations aside), was the discovery an experience too? What was that like?


In short, Samadhi is end of all experiences, and the experiencer.

Q: What happened to you then? How did you know that you are the Supreme?

Nisargadatta: Nobody came to tell me. Nor was I told so inwardly. In fact, it was only in the beginning when I was making efforts, that I was passing through some strange experiences; seeing lights, hearing voices, meeting gods and goddesses and conversing with them. Once the Guru told me: 'You are the Supreme Reality', I ceased having visions and trances and became very quiet and simple. I found myself desiring and knowing less and less, until I could say in utter astonishment: 'I know nothing, I want nothing.'

Q: Is devotion not useful as an initial step?

Nisargadatta: First step or second step, I have the first and final step at the same time! The knowledge "I am," without words, itself is the Ishwara. He, Ishwara, does not want another (Maya) agent or intermediary. Direct.

You know that you are sitting here; you know you are, do you require any special effort to hold on to that "you are"? You know you are; abide in that. The "I am" principle without words, that itself is the God of all Ishwaras.

That state of being is common to all, that is the message 'I am' without words. Change is only in the mind-flow. All the studies you are doing are in the realm of mind-flow. The sense of 'I am' is present because of your birth, through which you encounter many thoughts and concepts, always changing. Presently the message 'I am' is constant.

~ Nisargadatta

That is just what it is... becoming very quiet and simple. Natural.

I have said this to you earlier also in your 'What is Inner Silence?' thread. When you discover Samadhi (Inner Silence), it would be end of all your questions.

Here is why:

INQUIRER: When the mind is immersed in samadhi, does one or does one not experience the supernormal (camatkara)? If so, does this imply that one has deviated from the object of one's contemplation? And what is the real cause of this?

SRI MA: Samadhi means samadhana (solution, completion).

INQUIRER: Solution involves a question, whereas samadhi is a state in itself.

SRI MA: This body does not use the language of the shastras; it refers to ordinary things, such as water, earth, air, and so forth, when it speaks. Those who have understanding are able to comprehend this kind of broken and incomplete language. Samadhana signifies the perfect resolution of form, formlessness, manifested being, and non-being - of everything. The solution of a problem is one thing; yet there is another kind of resolution where the possibility of problems and their solutions cannot occur; this is called samadhi.

INQUIRER: Quite so; thus there are two kinds of samadhi, namely savikalpa and nirvicalpa.

SRI MA: The first signifies the resolution of cosmic existence into the One Pure Existence (Satta), and as for the second - there, there is even no such thing as 'Existence'.

INQUIRER: No such thing as 'Existence'? What then is it?

SRI MA: So long as thoughts and ideas (sankalpa and vikalpa) persist, not even Savikalpa samadhi can occur. Savikalpa samadhi signifies Awareness of Existence. But when there is no question of Existence - when there is no possibility of differentiating 'what is' from 'what is not' - can anything be expressed in words, however little?

This is nirvikalpa samadhi.


~ Sri Anandamayi Ma
http://www.anandamayi.org/books/atmnda.htm


Reply author: CarsonZi
Replied on: Jul 05 2011 10:38:58 AM
Message:

Hi TI

I know this was all said to Yogani, but I felt drawn to share my perspective here so hopefully something said will be helpful.

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

I guess I'm saying that I don't know the procedure. Because, if I did I would be experiencing transcendance during meditation. I thought Deep Meditation was like TM. How can TM have the goal of experiencing transcendance during meditation, while Deep Meditation does not? Is not the goal an indicator of proper technique?


I don't know too much about TM, but I can say with certainty that the goal of AYP DM is not to experience transcendance during meditation. The goal of AYP DM is to clean out the nervous system so that we can live a more fulfilled daily life. TM and AYP (from what I understand) have similar procedures, but if the goal of TM meditation is to experience transcendance during meditation then that is much different from the goal with AYP DM.

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

Today, I went back to my regular routine: prayer, bhastrika, spinal breathing and then 20 minutes of "i am" meditation.


Switching practices so often is only going to water down the effects of everything you are practicing.... I know you know this, but from reading your posts it seems you are constantly switching procedures. Doing this is not very effective for experiencing long term results. Inconsistent practice yields inconsistent results.

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

What happens is that the mantra turns into visible thoughts. I mentally repeat "i am" and it releases an intertwined bunch of visions, that, upon examination, first look like colorful ribbons that change into people, faces, things, objects, more thoughts. It isn't a sound, it is a vibration of colorful pictures. I never hit the point where my mind actually shuts off. Not like yesterday's experience.


"Examining" your visions during meditation is not AYP Deep Meditation. Going back to the mantra when you notice that you are having visions is AYP DM. I understand that the visions have a certain "draw" to them, but engaging with the visions during meditation is not meditation. And again, the goal of AYP DM is not to "shut the mind off" or to acheive any specific experience during meditation. The goal of AYP DM is to purify the nervous system. And that is achieved by returning to the mantra whenever you notice you are off of it. Examining your visions instead of returning to the mantra is not going to purify the nervous system.

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

Perhaps I have misused that mantra for so long that I have trained my mind unknowingly to produce these streams or ribbons of form-stuff.


During DM the stuff that "comes up" (visions, sensations, thoughts, etc) is the stuff that is being purified out of the nervous system. But if you choose not to return to the mantra when you notice this stuff arising and instead choose to analyze and "play with" the stuff that's coming to the surface, then what is arising is not released. It doesn't matter at all what is coming to the surface... what matters is going back to the mantra and continuing with the simple procedure of favoring the mantra and returning to it when you notice you are off of it.

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice

And then, there is the question, why do house cleaning when I can jump right into inner silence using the proper technique.. (if I can call that state 'inner silence', and if I can finally get the proper technique).


"Inner Silence" is not something that is (just) experienced during meditation. Inner Silence is the byproduct of doing the simple DM procedure and it is experienced all day long. Trying to acheive a specific state during meditation is watering down the effectiveness of the practice. When you notice that you are not experiencing Inner Silence in DM, go back to the mantra. When you notice that you are experiencing Inner Silence in DM, go back to the mantra. Whenever you notice anything in DM, you are off the mantra and you need to easily go back to putting your attention on the mantra. The "proper" technique is very simple and it appears that you are complicating things and because of this are not finding the benefits. The benefits of consistant twice daily DM practice (over an extended period of time) is not found during meditation time.... it is found outside of meditation time while engaged in daily activity. If you are doing DM to experience specific states of mind/no-mind during meditation, then DM is likely not the procedure for you. If you are looking to experience a happier, more fulfilled daily life, then DM will do that. I guess it all comes down to figuring out what your motivation is for practicing meditation.

Love!


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 05 2011 10:29:19 PM
Message:

Hi Carson :)
Just thought I'd mention that I really enjoyed listening to your radio interview. It is such a great thing that you got out of the addictions. Good for you! It was also very interesting to learn that politics and self-interest run rampant, even in the rehabilitation world..

quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I don't know too much about TM, but I can say with certainty that the goal of AYP DM is not to experience transcendance during meditation. The goal of AYP DM is to clean out the nervous system so that we can live a more fulfilled daily life. TM and AYP (from what I understand) have similar procedures, but if the goal of TM meditation is to experience transcendance during meditation then that is much different from the goal with AYP DM.


I've never learned TM either, but lately I was thinking that 'inner silence' is the same as the state of 'transcendence'. In Rosenthal's book on transcendence, he says that TM takes you directly to the state of turiya.
And, in lesson 157, Yogani says:
http://www.aypsite.org/157.html

quote:

4. Inner silence -- it is all those descriptive words and definitions mentioned already. In yoga it is sometimes called simply "Turiya," which means "the fourth state" in sanskrit.



Inner silence and Turiya are the same state. Aren't they?

I thought the goal of Deep Meditation was to create some inner silence..
Here are some quotes from Lesson 157:

quote:

Inner silence is at the heart of yoga. Without it, there can be no yoga.
...
Samyama and enlightenment (first stage and beyond) depend on innate inner
silence that will be there whether the mind is "burbling" or not. It also
comes up in dreaming state and deep sleep -- that's 24/7 inner silence.
Once we have that rising, we are becoming ready for serious yoga, union of
the subject and the object, and that is the union of the divine poles
within us leading to the unity condition where all is experienced as a
divine flow of the One.
...
So, the reason why be begin with meditation in these lessons is to
cultivate inner silence first, the prerequisite for all the rest that
happens in yoga. Once we have that coming up, it is possible to open many
doors.



In my vocabulary, the word 'reason' is like the word 'goal'. With all the emphasis on inner silence, one might well assume that inner silence is a major goal. According to Yogani's writings, if you don't have inner silence first, not much is going to happen. So it is definately something to aim for. It is a goal, isn't it?

quote:
you said
Switching practices so often is only going to water down the effects of everything you are practicing....



Sometimes. However, sometimes, the first time you try something is the best and it works like it should. Perhaps it is the extra energy given by trying something 'new', higher levels of interest the first time you try something, or perhaps that the mind hasn't had a chance to grasp and dullen it's experience. Wasn't it Adyashanti who said "After a while nothing works anymore."? Didn't Buddha advocate not taking his word for anything but trying out and testing the teaching one's self?

Also, sometimes it is nice to try a new practice because there are new insights to be gained. For example, I never realized the causal body and the golden light until I started meditating on "who is the watcher?". If I focus inward at the outward mantra, I meet thoughts and my action is probably feeding the thoughts energy. If I focus inward but turn my attention around to "what is watching" I am no longer feeding my thoughts energy.

quote:

I know you know this, but from reading your posts it seems you are constantly switching procedures. Doing this is not very effective for experiencing long term results. Inconsistent practice yields inconsistent results.


In buddhist teachings it is common to find that not focusing on the result is an asset. Be perfect in what you do. The result will take care of itself. I think we develop these simplified little phrases to motivate meditators to stay on the path. (Be happy, I could have said that there is no past and no future, so who cares what happens in the future, only the 'now' matters.. ha ha)

I know that consistent practice yields consistent results as long as you have the right technique. When John Daido Loori, in his book called "Finding the Still Point" says that perfect posture causes the body to drop away after a short time (and eventually the mind too), and when I try it and it works, I know I have the right technique. If I start to slouch, it doesn't work anymore. Then, when you read meditation instructions that say it really doesn't matter how you sit, you start to wonder about the veracity of the claim, or perhaps that there is some other mechanism which works better.. There are so many writings and teachings out there, how is a person supposed to know which technique is accurate? For example, there are so many instructions on breath meditation, but none of them that I have seen, except for Buddha's instructions, say to relax on the in-breath, relax on the out-breath and feel the whole body while monitoring the breath. The breath is actually secondary and you watch it only to rest in the knowledge of what type of pattern it is producing (slow, fast, short, long..)

quote:

"Examining" your visions during meditation is not AYP Deep Meditation.


I know that. Ok. Bad use of the term. I don't stop and look at the visions. There is no division between repeating the mantra and seeing the visions. The mantra itself becomes the visions! You can't help but see the visions/colors etc. The thought of the mantra is actually a stream of light and color, which, when I am that deep, becomes a movement. And in the movement, visions and objects exist.

Saying the mantra is like releasing a streamer into the mind. At first you see the streamer. Then you see the streamer is made of small balls of light. Then one of the balls of light turns into a face or an image..

It is kind of like this. You are supposed to meditate on a 'tree'. The tree is the mantra, figuratively speaking. When you first look at the object, you see a tree. But as you continually bring your attention back to the tree, the tree breaks down into finer components. Now you can see branches, leaves, bark. As you go deeper, not only do you see the whole tree, then the branches, leaves and bark, but you start to see the cells and the atoms. If you go deeper,you start to see it's life force and the space that it occupies, the shiny substance that radiates through it's cells.
So, for me, either the mantra thought itself has much depth and other things in it which are being revealed, or the mantra is stirring up other thoughts. Or perhaps all thoughts are contained within one thought? Perhaps energy movement itself is producing the panorama. I don't know. Maybe the only way to stop the mind is to not feed it any attention (energy).

I've just had a realization.. Maybe I am grasping at the thought of the mantra! Perhaps I'm hitting a superconscious level of mind and I don't realize that the mind's horsepower has increased, and I'm grasping at the mantra! Maybe I have to let the mantra go sooner, or really lighten my touch of attention (grasping) at that point. I wonder.. I will try that.. I remember getting into a superconscious level of mind a few year ago, when during an arduous meditation session, all of a sudden the long mantra I was reciting became effortless. It became so easy, there was no effort to remember the next word in the mantra. All of a sudden I was the master of my mind. It did exactly what I directed it, quickly, effortlessly, and I could see all the words in the mantra in beautiful color, sort of like a satori state..
It has never occured to me that perhaps I am shifting into the superconscious state during mantra meditation..


quote:

During DM the stuff that "comes up" (visions, sensations, thoughts, etc) is the stuff that is being purified out of the nervous system.



Now I'm just having fun now.. According the buddhists, the mind is infinite, clear, spacious, unlimited and omnipresent. It is the ground from which all form is born and into which all form dissolves. So I'm not sure that you could ever purify your nervous system to the point where you have removed all visions, sensations, thoughts etc.. because that stuff is infinite mind, and the nervous system is part of the physical body. But I think it is possible to stop the motion of the mind, to stop the atman from drawing the universe and experience the truth..
Nisargadatta and some Buddhist teachings on the jhanas say that reality is rock solid, blissful and doesn't move. It is only our attention that moves.

Gurudeva has an interesting concept. He says that the attention is like a yoyo. It focuses upon a thought and then yoyo's back and then on to the next thought, and then back and so on. The thought never dissolves or disappears, it's just that the attention leaves the location of the thought. You don't create thoughts, you just move your attention to where the thought already exists. If you don't move your attention to any location, which is 'stillness', then there is nothing to distract you and you realize what reality truly is.

quote:

If you are doing DM to experience specific states of mind/no-mind during meditation, then DM is likely not the procedure for you.


I disagree. I would like to stop the mind. I want to experience inner silence. I would also like to be enlightened. I want to understand the mystery of life. And, I would like to be free of the tyranny of the mind, the ups and downs, the pains and pleasures, the meaningless experiences life seems to offer and realize what I really am.

Thanks for your comments..

:)
TI


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jul 06 2011 04:37:33 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
I would like to stop the mind.


Oh, you. You just couldn't let me go, could you? This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object. You are truly incorruptible, aren't you? Huh? You won't kill me out of some misplaced sense of self-righteousness. And I won't kill you because you're just too much fun. I think you and I are destined to do this forever.
~ The Joker [Dark Knight]

Unstoppable force = Mind
Immovable object = You



quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
And, I would like to be free of the tyranny of the mind, the ups and downs, the pains and pleasures, the meaningless experiences life seems to offer and realize what I really am.


Dilios: The enemy outnumber us a paltry three to one, good odds for any Greek. This day we rescue a world from mysticism and tyranny and usher in a future brighter than anything we can imagine.

(puts on his helmet)

Give thanks, men, to Leonidas and the brave 300!

TO VICTORY!

(the Greek army roars and charges)


~ [300]

Don't forget to put on your helmet. Better fight and die then to surrender and become a slave. I like that spirit.


Reply author: escapado
Replied on: Jul 06 2011 08:49:49 AM
Message:

Jed mckenna style?


Reply author: CarsonZi
Replied on: Jul 06 2011 11:01:56 AM
Message:

Hi TI

I only have a second so sorry that I can't respond to your entire post.

Inner Silence is not a state of mind that you just tap into. Inner Silence is the result of a having a purified nervous system. And the nervous system is purified through effective and consistent practice. At least that is the way it is perceived here.

Love!


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Jul 06 2011 1:33:48 PM
Message:

Hi TI,

I think it's great that you want to become enlightened. As for inner silence, and goals, and enlightenment, Yogani has written quite a lot about it in the main lessons and in his books.

There are two stages to inner silence, the first stage is the cultivation of the witness. The witness is what is aware of everything that is happening. So when you are trying to find inner silence, the awareness of that seeking is the witness. When you are frustrated because you cannot stop the mind, the awareness of that movement of frustration is the witness. And the witness is inner silence. So it is a step back from the game of life so to speak.

The second stage of inner silence is a movement beyond the witness, which is a merging of the subject/ object divide. This is unity where everything is seen to be a part of the divine flow in action.

I don't believe that Yogani has ever said that inner silence is a goal of yoga, but rather that it is an important milestone on the path, and a necessary prerequisite for enlightenment. Enlightenment is the transition from a normal life to a divine life which is a state of never ending ecstatic bliss and divine love. Love is a higher state of ecstasy and a product of ecstasy. You could say that divine love is the nature of ecstasy as it spills over in unity. This is the goal of yoga, and inner silence plays an important part in the process, but is only a part of the process, not one to get hung up over.

Achieving the goal of yoga requires a good house cleaning first in terms of purifying the subtle nervous system and the physical body. This is because we cannot rise to a state of continuous ecstasy if there are still obstructions remaining. It would be too painful. With some good house cleaning (purification) and the rise of inner silence (witness) the body begins to become trasformed to a higher level of functioning. Without this there can be no enlightenment. This is why we have so many different practices in yoga, all designed to play a part in bringing the whole process of transformation together.

Christi


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 06 2011 2:58:40 PM
Message:

Hi Manigma :)

quote:
Originally posted by manigma
...

Dilios: The enemy outnumber us a paltry three to one, good odds for any Greek. This day we rescue a world from mysticism and tyranny and usher in a future brighter than anything we can imagine.

(puts on his helmet)

Give thanks, men, to Leonidas and the brave 300!

TO VICTORY!

(the Greek army roars and charges)


~ [300]

Don't forget to put on your helmet. Better fight and die then to surrender and become a slave. I like that spirit.





Have you been spying on me again? I was just watching that movie [300] the other night for the third time!

:)
TI


Reply author: escapado
Replied on: Jul 06 2011 3:32:05 PM
Message:

the omniscient spirit y'know


Reply author: jenniferad
Replied on: Jul 06 2011 11:15:16 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice


What happens is that the mantra turns into visible thoughts. I mentally repeat "i am" and it releases an intertwined bunch of visions, that, upon examination, first look like colorful ribbons that change into people, faces, things, objects, more thoughts. It isn't a sound, it is a vibration of colorful pictures. I never hit the point where my mind actually shuts off. Not like yesterday's experience.

Perhaps I have misused that mantra for so long that I have trained my mind unknowingly to produce these streams or ribbons of form-stuff. Or perhaps it is deep purification and I just don't know that that is what is occuring.. Maybe it is the subconscious doing house cleaning? Will it ever end?

And then, there is the question, why do house cleaning when I can jump right into inner silence using the proper technique.. (if I can call that state 'inner silence', and if I can finally get the proper technique).




I hope it ok for a very new person to AYP to say something.

I was rereading the lesson on Deep Meditation (http://www.aypsite.org/13.html) this evening, and if I may, I'd like to point out that when you are repeating the "I am" mantra, you are following the procedure. When "the mantra releases an intertwined bunch of visions," and then you examine those visions, you are not repeating the mantra, you are examining the visions and you have stopped repeating the mantra. Then the procedure is to start repeating it again. That's it. It is elegantly simple.

All the rest that is happening (visions, thoughts, emotions) will keep happening. You don't need to do anything about it. You just keep repeating the mantra, and when you realize you aren't repeating the mantra, you start again. That is housecleaning. Others have answered why you do the housecleaning instead of trying to jump into some other state.

Jennifer


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 06 2011 11:46:27 PM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Hi TI,

I think it's great that you want to become enlightened. As for inner silence, and goals, and enlightenment, Yogani has written quite a lot about it in the main lessons and in his books.

There are two stages to inner silence, the first stage is the cultivation of the witness. The witness is what is aware of everything that is happening. So when you are trying to find inner silence, the awareness of that seeking is the witness. When you are frustrated because you cannot stop the mind, the awareness of that movement of frustration is the witness. And the witness is inner silence. So it is a step back from the game of life so to speak.

The second stage of inner silence is a movement beyond the witness, which is a merging of the subject/ object divide. This is unity where everything is seen to be a part of the divine flow in action.

I don't believe that Yogani has ever said that inner silence is a goal of yoga, but rather that it is an important milestone on the path, and a necessary prerequisite for enlightenment. Enlightenment is the transition from a normal life to a divine life which is a state of never ending ecstatic bliss and divine love. Love is a higher state of ecstasy and a product of ecstasy. You could say that divine love is the nature of ecstasy as it spills over in unity. This is the goal of yoga, and inner silence plays an important part in the process, but is only a part of the process, not one to get hung up over.

Achieving the goal of yoga requires a good house cleaning first in terms of purifying the subtle nervous system and the physical body. This is because we cannot rise to a state of continuous ecstasy if there are still obstructions remaining. It would be too painful. With some good house cleaning (purification) and the rise of inner silence (witness) the body begins to become trasformed to a higher level of functioning. Without this there can be no enlightenment. This is why we have so many different practices in yoga, all designed to play a part in bringing the whole process of transformation together.

Christi


Hi Christi,
Yes, Yogani has written much about inner silence. Here is a concise description from "Copy of a lesson posted in AdancedYogaPractices Tantra Group, 4/18/04:":
quote:

On the level of our personal experience in the body it is the union
of our blissful inner silence, cultivated mainly in deep meditation,
with our whole body ecstasy, cultivated in spinal breathing and other
pranayamas, mudras, bandhas and tantric sexual methods.

On the level of tantric mythological metaphors it is the union of
Shiva and Shakti, which correspond to the direct experiences of
silence and ecstasy just mentioned.
...
The rise of Shiva, Shakti and their final union everywhere within us
make up the three stages of enlightenment – First, 24/7 inner
silence. Second, 24/7 whole body ecstasy. And third, 24/7 ecstatic
bliss, the joining of the divine polarities of silence and ecstasy,
yielding an endless outpouring of divine love, which is unity.




You know, it really doesn't matter, we are lost in semantics. But, when I read those statements, to me, in my perverse interpretation, inner silence is the goal of deep meditation and ecstatic conductivity is the goal of all of the other practices.
To me, the first goal is 24/7 inner silence, the second goal is 24/7 whole body ecstasy, and the third goal is join the two.

Christi, have you managed to join the two yet?

:)
TI


Reply author: Tibetan_Ice
Replied on: Jul 07 2011 12:35:11 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by jenniferad

I hope it ok for a very new person to AYP to say something.

I was rereading the lesson on Deep Meditation (http://www.aypsite.org/13.html) this evening, and if I may, I'd like to point out that when you are repeating the "I am" mantra, you are following the procedure. When "the mantra releases an intertwined bunch of visions," and then you examine those visions, you are not repeating the mantra, you are examining the visions and you have stopped repeating the mantra. Then the procedure is to start repeating it again. That's it. It is elegantly simple.

All the rest that is happening (visions, thoughts, emotions) will keep happening. You don't need to do anything about it. You just keep repeating the mantra, and when you realize you aren't repeating the mantra, you start again. That is housecleaning. Others have answered why you do the housecleaning instead of trying to jump into some other state.

Jennifer


Hi Jennifer :)
I appreciate all comments (some a little more than others.. kidding). :)

I think you have the procedure down for deep meditation.
That's what I did for a very long time (few years). Then, as I passed through the dream state and went deeper, I had very many meditations where all I could see was hundreds of streams of thoughts whizzing by in technicolor. Like being caught in a tornado of thought ribbons, or more like a water spout because the ribbons of thought were all travelling upwards, in the same direction. Then, I reached the state where the mantra thought itself was not separate from the thought ribbons, but became a ribbon itself.

Imagine, you are in a black empty space and you say the mantra, but a person appears at the exact location in your mind where the mantra was released. You say the mantra again and a school bus stretches out in your inner awareness in that location. You say the mantra and half a face appears and then grows into a flower. Each release of the mantra becomes an object or conglomerate of objects to the awareness.

I think I found the answer but now I'm not that sure. I thought I am hitting a superconscious state called turiya. It is pure consciousness. Any movement of mind creates something.

I found this about it:
link: http://civashakti.blogspot.com/2011...-turiya.html
quote:

The final and most intense state in Indian yoga refers to 'Turiya'. This is intense dreaming state, where there is presence of pure consciousness reflecting itself. And the meditator/perceiver is part of this, reflecting on her own consciousness.



To me, the key word is intense coupled with 'dreaming'. It is very intense. Sometimes I had to quit the meditation because I felt like I would be ripped apart, when the tornado/water spouts were appearing.

Perhaps it isn't turiya, but maybe it is the third eye. I've heard that you can create things using the third eye. Maybe my third eye is creating the visions when I repeat the mantra.

I'm just trying to get clarity and more information of this state, that is all. The general teaching here at AYP is that it is all scenery and in the final anaylis, it doesn't matter. And it probably doesn't! However, I am contrary. I like to learn about what is actually taking place and know what level I am at.

Thanks for your comments.
:)
TI


Reply author: manigma
Replied on: Jul 07 2011 01:13:50 AM
Message:

quote:
Originally posted by Tibetan_Ice
Have you been spying on me again? I was just watching that movie [300] the other night for the third time!


Why would I spy on anyone?

I know what you are. And I have no interest in what you do or dream or desire.

Close your two eyes, close your third eye... go beyond!

I'll meet you there.


Reply author: Yaming
Replied on: Jul 07 2011 03:29:35 AM
Message:

quote:
I'm just trying to get clarity and more information of this state, that is all. The general teaching here at AYP is that it is all scenery and in the final anaylis, it doesn't matter. And it probably doesn't! However, I am contrary. I like to learn about what is actually taking place and know what level I am at.


Isn't that the main problem? That you have to filter everything through your mind and see where you are at. To let go is not easy and we always try, consciously or not, to grab onto smth that gives us security. But there is none. Analyzation will bring you nowhere. I would advise you to just sit down, do the DM and look for the results in your daily life. Any progress is seen in your normal life and not in the meditation itself (at least here). In my opinion that is a very good approach. Instead of chasing some non-graspable concept of enlightenment you just strive for making every day a little bit better!


Reply author: maheswari
Replied on: Jul 07 2011 05:32:46 AM
Message:

agree 100 percent with Yaming


Reply author: Christi
Replied on: Jul 08 2011 05:17:05 AM
Message:

Hi TI,

quote:


You know, it really doesn't matter, we are lost in semantics. But, when I read those statements, to me, in my perverse interpretation, inner silence is the goal of deep meditation and ecstatic conductivity is the goal of all of the other practices.
To me, the first goal is 24/7 inner silence, the second goal is 24/7 whole body ecstasy, and the third goal is join the two.

Christi, have you managed to join the two yet?


It's never a done deal, where you can say, "yes I've done that".

In practice, whenever there is some level of ecstatic conductivity happening in the body and some level of bliss in the mind, then the merging of the two takes place. And it is an ongoing and progressive transformation which is unending.

The model you quoted about the goal of meditation, pranayama etc. is a simplification. It is true for the most part, but is not ultimately true. In the end, meditation is for ecstasy. Yogani writes about it here:

quote:
In yoga it is not possible to avoid dealing with sexual energy indefinitely, because sooner or later the nervous system becomes activated by the rise of kundalini, and inner ecstasy explodes inside. There is nothing more sensual than that. All of the advanced yoga practices are designed to promote ecstasy's natural rise in the nervous system. Even meditation is ultimately for that, coming from deep inner silence to union in ecstatic bliss everywhere in the body and beyond. That is why we call advancedyogapractices, "easy lessons for ecstatic living." [Yogani]


http://www.aypsite.org/127.html

This is really the key if you are interested in the goal of yoga, and of meditation (as meditation is yoga). When ecstasy and bliss merge everywhere in the body two things h